Recently accepted to dental, thinking of switching

[Mocizzle]

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Hi everyone, I recently got into a dental program which is pretty good, around a top 10 school. What's really bothering me is I feel I may have made a mistake but am not sure. To be honest when I started my pre-dental classes I was a young guy around 21 where my sole reasoning was "screw working for industry they are overworked and underpaid" dentistry offered to me what I valued the most then... less work and more money. As I matured and am 24 now I feel my priorities in life have changed and I feel what I value most now is satisfying my curiosity at an intellectual level, comprehensive scientific education, and making a deep meaningful impact in people's lives who really need it.
Shadowing really hard lately dentists I feel the profession is really superficial and focuses so heavily on cosmetics and production if you want to make a decent living. It also bothers me that I don't find teeth, or most of the procedures very interesting or as impactful as I want. And to be honest a 400k loan for this sounds insane. Now I thought maybe the shining light at the end of the tunnel is Oral surgery, it kind of makes up for the shortcomings of general dentistry that I didn't like. My concern is, what if I don't like surgery as much as I think I do, or don't match? or even the oral region... I don't know if this is a gamble worth taking?

For the people who know more about medicine, I guess the biggest issues I had originally was a fear of long work hours, lots of paperwork, lack of ability to be an owner. As I consult people of more specialties I find this is more variable than one blanket statement that can be made. Is it plausible to be a physician working 40 hour weeks or less (after residency)? And am I right for thinking i'd rather do medicine because of the breadth and specializing capabilities.. I'll be able to really find what I want and fall in love with it. Some of the Upper tier fields I liked: Ortho,ENT,Optho,Cardiology Mid-Tier: PM&R, Emergency, to be very honest I don't think I'd enjoy being a family physician at all (seems boring and low pay) these are my thoughts or Am I suffering from the "grass is greener on the other side" The work just seems so much more scientifically driven, impactful, and fun as opposed to dental

any advice is welcome, thanks!

 

[Moko]

What's really bothering me is I feel I may have made a mistake but am not sure... As I matured and am 24 now I feel my priorities in life have changed and I feel what I value most now is satisfying my curiosity at an intellectual level, comprehensive scientific education, and making a deep meaningful impact in people's lives who really need it. Shadowing really hard lately dentists I feel the profession is really superficial and focuses so heavily on cosmetics and production if you want to make a decent living. It also bothers me that I don't find teeth, or most of the procedures very interesting or as impactful as I want... the biggest issues I had originally was a fear of long work hours, lots of paperwork, lack of ability to be an owner.... Is it plausible to be a physician working 40 hour weeks or less (after residency)?

It's natural to get cold feet right before embarking on a new chapter in your life. Only you can decide which path makes the most sense for you, whether that be dentistry, medicine, or something else altogether. Talk to mentors who you respect, draw from your shadowing experiences of various practices, and have an honest evaluation of your own goals. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with accumulating wealth and minimizing work.

I can't comment on how superficial the field of dentistry is or isn't; however, every field is capable of making a meaningful impact if that is your goal. As an anecdote: during my intern year in medicine residency, one of my longitudinal patients who was uninsured and low-income had many teeth pulled for unspecified reasons. He was only able to eat pureed foods, and this eventually led to significant weight loss and malnutrition. He was also very self-conscious about his smile and had become very withdrawn and depressed. We (and by 'we', I really mean the case managers and social workers) eventually found him a dentist who was willing to make dentures for him at a significantly reduced price. When I saw him back in clinic, he was a changed man -- he was smiling brightly and was genuinely happy for the first time in several months. No referral or medication prescription from me could have accomplished this. (I did, however, make sure that his blood pressure and diabetes was immaculately controlled during this time)

The lifestyle of a dentist who serves as a safety net for uninsured and/or low income patients is probably not as glamorous or comfortable as it could be; however, these dentists do make a significant impact on the health of their communities, and I suspect that their patients are grateful for their expertise. If having a "deep meaningful impact" is your goal, then that is easily achievable in dentistry provided that you are willing to make the necessary sacrifices. The same thing can be said of medicine.

To answer your questions about a career in medicine: we (generally speaking) do work long hours, and do an ungodly amount of paperwork. However, there are also many physicians who prioritize being able to work 'normal hours' at the expense of lower pay. Pay also varies widely based on practice location (urban vs rural), interest in academia, and hours worked. Again, it really depends on each individual's priorities.

Given your acceptance to dental school, I suspect that you would have no trouble eventually getting into medical school. So the real question is whether this is right for you, and this is a question that only you can answer. Before changing over to medicine, make sure that you've thoroughly researched its pros and cons -- it's definitely not all rainbows and unicorns on this side of the fence. Also, keep in mind that med school would similarly put you into debt, and that the earliest you (realistically) could matriculate to medical school would be two years from now - so there's an opportunity cost there from lost income. Good luck making this decision.

 

[lakertodoc]

I think the correct answer is that switching to medicine may or may not give you more career satisfaction or better lifestyle. But you can probably get more intellectual stimulation in medicine than in dentistry since there is more breadth of science to study with a wider variety of patient clinical presentations.

However, there can be some tradeoff in lifestyle depending on what specialty you choose. There are specialties with "better" lifestyles like the ones you mentioned, but the road to those specialties can be tough (i.e. you may need to work harder to be top of your class while in medical school, get top USMLE scores, perform very well during clerkships, etc.), and can risk not getting into a specialty that you want.

If you do end up choosing dental school and want to learn medicine, there is also the Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery (OMFS) route. They can make serious bank, but I believe you have to go through 1-2 years of M.D. training and then need to do surgical residency after you get your DDS (not 100% sure though).

You mentioned the term "superficial." I think you may be more or less disappointed with the superficiality of medicine. There is still a ton of bureaucracy, paperwork, and other burdensome protocols (and the occasional rude/needy patients) that really drain some of the physicians that I've worked with at times. I've noticed most physicians love their job when they feel fresh and rejuvenated (just like most people in any other profession), but they can seem burned out for a decent proportion of the time.

Don't know much about dentistry lifestyle, but it seems like you may more or less have better control of your own schedule if you own your own practice.

Another factor is your spouse. If your spouse has a good steady income, you both can work less if you choose, thus having a better lifestyle. Some of the happiest physicians I've seen seem to have a great balance of "hard months" where one of them will work more hours while the other recharges, and then they switch off. OR they both work less in general.

Lastly, I think your lifestyle and satisfaction really depends on the people you work with. If you get to work at a great program or practice with energizing colleagues who care about their work and doing a great job, I feel like the long hours become A LOT more tolerable. Again, where you match etc. will depend a lot on how well you do in medical school and residency, so it can end up a very long road to get where you want to be if you have a very desirable program in mind.

Ultimately, I think I would only consider medicine if you think you have a >80-90% chance of getting in during the next cycle and would feel okay if you didn't get in on your first try. Since you're already accepted into dental school, it can be really nice to get started on your career rather than go through the hassle and angst of applying to medical school. There is also the opportunity cost of 1-3 years salary if you do decide to try for medical school (which may or may not matter that much in the long run). If you've heard about all of the negatives about medicine, and still feel enticed about it, then you might be crazy enough to turn down dental school (and its similar pay) to pursue it.

Wish you the best!

 

[Mocizzle]

It's natural to get cold feet right before embarking on a new chapter in your life. Only you can decide which path makes the most sense for you, whether that be dentistry, medicine, or something else altogether. Talk to mentors who you respect, draw from your shadowing experiences of various practices, and have an honest evaluation of your own goals. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with accumulating wealth and minimizing work.

I can't comment on how superficial the field of dentistry is or isn't; however, every field is capable of making a meaningful impact if that is your goal. As an anecdote: during my intern year in medicine residency, one of my longitudinal patients who was uninsured and low-income had many teeth pulled for unspecified reasons. He was only able to eat pureed foods, and this eventually led to significant weight loss and malnutrition. He was also very self-conscious about his smile and had become very withdrawn and depressed. We (and by 'we', I really mean the case managers and social workers) eventually found him a dentist who was willing to make dentures for him at a significantly reduced price. When I saw him back in clinic, he was a changed man -- he was smiling brightly and was genuinely happy for the first time in several months. No referral or medication prescription from me could have accomplished this. (I did, however, make sure that his blood pressure and diabetes was immaculately controlled during this time)

The lifestyle of a dentist who serves as a safety net for uninsured and/or low income patients is probably not as glamorous or comfortable as it could be; however, these dentists do make a significant impact on the health of their communities, and I suspect that their patients are grateful for their expertise. If having a "deep meaningful impact" is your goal, then that is easily achievable in dentistry provided that you are willing to make the necessary sacrifices. The same thing can be said of medicine.

To answer your questions about a career in medicine: we (generally speaking) do work long hours, and do an ungodly amount of paperwork. However, there are also many physicians who prioritize being able to work 'normal hours' at the expense of lower pay. Pay also varies widely based on practice location (urban vs rural), interest in academia, and hours worked. Again, it really depends on each individual's priorities.

Given your acceptance to dental school, I suspect that you would have no trouble eventually getting into medical school. So the real question is whether this is right for you, and this is a question that only you can answer. Before changing over to medicine, make sure that you've thoroughly researched its pros and cons -- it's definitely not all rainbows and unicorns on this side of the fence. Also, keep in mind that med school would similarly put you into debt, and that the earliest you (realistically) could matriculate to medical school would be two years from now - so there's an opportunity cost there from lost income. Good luck making this decision.

Wow this was an amazing answer especially for SDN.. Very thought provoking I thank you sir. I was quick to neglect the impact of dentists and that is wrong they are doing some amazing work, I guess what concerns me is MY feeling of impact for doing the work, the crude attention to detail, the artistic side, etc I don't feel it's my cup of tea, I DO like working with my hands hence why i mentioned surgery in either path.. To give you an example, I have been a big sports guy my whole life even now, and the idea of PM&R for example, helping people restore functionality and athleticism that I so readily enjoy seems so exciting! Once again maybe grass is greener but did NOT feel that in dental. I certainly never hated it either though and always found it OK.
My concern is how wise is it to so early on dictate yourself on a certain region of the body with no hope of later changing? I have many med friends who had their "Aha" moment for their specialty near 2nd - 3rd year medical, an often times it differs from the specialty they intended to originally do

 

[Moko]

Wow this was an amazing answer especially for SDN.. Very thought provoking I thank you sir. I was quick to neglect the impact of dentists and that is wrong they are doing some amazing work, I guess what concerns me is MY feeling of impact for doing the work, the crude attention to detail, the artistic side, etc I don't feel it's my cup of tea, I DO like working with my hands hence why i mentioned surgery in either path.. To give you an example, I have been a big sports guy my whole life even now, and the idea of PM&R for example, helping people restore functionality and athleticism that I so readily enjoy seems so exciting! Once again maybe grass is greener but did NOT feel that in dental. I certainly never hated it either though and always found it OK.
My concern is how wise is it to so early on dictate yourself on a certain region of the body with no hope of later changing? I have many med friends who had their "Aha" moment for their specialty near 2nd - 3rd year medical, an often times it differs from the specialty they intended to originally do

No problem, glad to be of assistance. Different people find meaning from different things -- so it's totally okay if you personally do not find meaning from dentistry as a field. However, even if you don't enjoy dentistry, it may give you the income and flexibility needed to pursue happiness in other areas of your life (e.g having time to raise and be with your current/future family, traveling the world, donating to charities, buying a boat, etc).

I'd recommend shadowing some physicians and doing some clinical volunteering to see if medicine is your cup of tea. I agree that before officially starting dental school, you should ideally be fairly certain that it is for you (in order to avoid accruing an additional year of debt). If needed, can you defer your dental school acceptance by a year to give you time to do more some soul searching? During this time, you can volunteer, shadow, take the MCAT, and build up ECs needed to be a competitive applicant to medical school. Hope this helps.

 

[Mocizzle]

I think the correct answer is that switching to medicine may or may not give you more career satisfaction or better lifestyle. But you can probably get more intellectual stimulation in medicine than in dentistry since there is more breadth of science to study with a wider variety of patient clinical presentations.

However, there can be some tradeoff in lifestyle depending on what specialty you choose. There are specialties with "better" lifestyles like the ones you mentioned, but the road to those specialties can be tough (i.e. you may need to work harder to be top of your class while in medical school, get top USMLE scores, perform very well during clerkships, etc.), and can risk not getting into a specialty that you want.

If you do end up choosing dental school and want to learn medicine, there is also the Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery (OMFS) route. They can make serious bank, but I believe you have to go through 1-2 years of M.D. training and then need to do surgical residency after you get your DDS (not 100% sure though).

You mentioned the term "superficial." I think you may be more or less disappointed with the superficiality of medicine. There is still a ton of bureaucracy, paperwork, and other burdensome protocols (and the occasional rude/needy patients) that really drain some of the physicians that I've worked with at times. I've noticed most physicians love their job when they feel fresh and rejuvenated (just like most people in any other profession), but they can seem burned out for a decent proportion of the time.

Don't know much about dentistry lifestyle, but it seems like you may more or less have better control of your own schedule if you own your own practice.

Another factor is your spouse. If your spouse has a good steady income, you both can work less if you choose, thus having a better lifestyle. Some of the happiest physicians I've seen seem to have a great balance of "hard months" where one of them will work more hours while the other recharges, and then they switch off. OR they both work less in general.

Lastly, I think your lifestyle and satisfaction really depends on the people you work with. If you get to work at a great program or practice with energizing colleagues who care about their work and doing a great job, I feel like the long hours become A LOT more tolerable. Again, where you match etc. will depend a lot on how well you do in medical school and residency, so it can end up a very long road to get where you want to be if you have a very desirable program in mind.

Ultimately, I think I would only consider medicine if you think you have a >80-90% chance of getting in during the next cycle and would feel okay if you didn't get in on your first try. Since you're already accepted into dental school, it can be really nice to get started on your career rather than go through the hassle and angst of applying to medical school. There is also the opportunity cost of 1-3 years salary if you do decide to try for medical school (which may or may not matter that much in the long run). If you've heard about all of the negatives about medicine, and still feel enticed about it, then you might be crazy enough to turn down dental school (and its similar pay) to pursue it.

Wish you the best!

This is the million dollar question Haha, If i could guarantee OMFS I'm sure I wouldn't be disappointed. There are even people who solely went to D-School with this in mind, it seems a bit risky to me though, similar to someone going Med and saying i'm only doing orthopedics or bust. It's certainly been done but I am hesitant to bank on it

 

[Cornfed101]

This is the million dollar question Haha, If i could guarantee OMFS I'm sure I wouldn't be disappointed. There are even people who solely went to D-School with this in mind, it seems a bit risky to me though, similar to someone going Med and saying i'm only doing orthopedics or bust. It's certainly been done but I am hesitant to bank on it

I also recommend shadowing a physician. That’s really the best way you can know if it appeals to you. As a side note there is an adcom at the University of Minnesota that is a DDS/MD that does ENT and facial plastic surgery. Basically he is the master of the head and neck(minus the brain). That seems like a little overkill to me, but pretty cool nonetheless.

 

[Gurby]

Shadowing really hard lately dentists I feel the profession is really superficial and focuses so heavily on cosmetics and production if you want to make a decent living. It also bothers me that I don't find teeth, or most of the procedures very interesting or as impactful as I want. And to be honest a 400k loan for this sounds insane. Now I thought maybe the shining light at the end of the tunnel is Oral surgery, it kind of makes up for the shortcomings of general dentistry that I didn't like. My concern is, what if I don't like surgery as much as I think I do, or don't match? or even the oral region... I don't know if this is a gamble worth taking?

Anecdotally I had a tooth abscess once, and the pain was so bad I was ready to drive off a bridge. Endodontist fixed me up in <1 hour, I immediately felt 1000x better. That will be $1500 please, thank you, next patient. Seemed like a pretty nice racket.

 

[deleted547631]

There’s been a lot of thought provoking discussion ITT but I’m gonna just slice through for the sake of brevity and tell you that if you feel this way now you’re not meant for dental school. Go to medical school, attain a much more robust foundational medical education, and give yourself the chance to pursue the exact specialty you’re truly more passionate about. I attended dental school prior to switching to medical school and I’ll just straight up tell you it’s like transitioning from Junior Varsity to Varsity league. Telling people to brush or floss more, preparing teeth for cemented crowns (ceramic caps), pressuring people to accept expensive dental treatment plans and working for a dental corporation to meet production goals is boring and dumb. Going into debt ($300K+ dental school loans + $300K+ practice startup) to make after ten years of practicing what a fresh Hospitalist makes ($250K starting working 26 weeks per year) means you’re going to have a bad time.

Also, OMFS is a great dental specialty and all but it overlaps with general dentistry a lot now - do you want to depend on 3rd molar extractions all day to make money? General dentists have come a long way in placing implants and doing simple orthodontics.

 

[Mocizzle]

There’s been a lot of thought provoking discussion ITT but I’m gonna just slice through for the sake of brevity and tell you that if you feel this way now you’re not meant for dental school. Go to medical school, attain a much more robust foundational medical education, and give yourself the chance to pursue the exact specialty you’re truly more passionate about. I attended dental school prior to switching to medical school and I’ll just straight up tell you it’s like transitioning from Junior Varsity to Varsity league. Telling people to brush or floss more, preparing teeth for cemented crowns (ceramic caps), pressuring people to accept expensive dental treatment plans and working for a dental corporation to meet production goals is boring and dumb. Going into debt ($300K+ dental school loans + $300K+ practice startup) to make after ten years of practicing what a fresh Hospitalist makes ($250K starting working 26 weeks per year) means you’re going to have a bad time.

Also, OMFS is a great dental specialty and all but it overlaps with general dentistry a lot now - do you want to depend on 3rd molar extractions all day to make money? General dentists have come a long way in placing implants and doing simple orthodontics.

Tbh I am switching, this post gives me motivation as im not the only one feeling this way, how did you switch? and how do you like it

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is it plausible to be a physician working 40 hour weeks or less (after residency)?

This statement is not congruent with the one below.

to be very honest I don't think I'd enjoy being a family physician at all (seems boring and low pay)

Am I suffering from the "grass is greener on the other side"

Most likely

I guess the biggest issues I had originally was a fear of long work hours, lots of paperwork, lack of ability to be an owner.

None of these issues have changed.

 

[kumbayah]

Read an interesting article recently:

The Truth About Dentistry

 

[deleted547631]

Tbh I am switching, this post gives me motivation as im not the only one feeling this way, how did you switch? and how do you like it

Sorry! I just saw that you replied. PM me if you'd like and I can answer your questions.

 

[DNAJB6]

I think dental school has a lot more risk. During periods of economic prosperity, business may be booming. During a recession, what is the first medically related thing people let go? Their teeth. If you're having a heart attack or medical issue, you're less likely to put that off. Abscessed teeth are exceptions, but it probably won't be the bulk of your practice either.

 

[DNAJB6]

If you have doubts, it is better to bail now than to wait several semesters and end up with six figures in debt. $400k in debt for dental school is insane. IMHO. Dentists that do residencies are not paid; in fact, they pay the residency program. I also read that the average dentist's salary was really lower than often reported and only around $150k.

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

 

[deleted547631]

If you have doubts, it is better to bail now than to wait several semesters and end up with six figures in debt. $400k in debt for dental school is insane. IMHO. Dentists that do residencies are not paid; in fact, they pay the residency program. I also read that the average dentist's salary was really lower than often reported and only around $150k.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-m... it and take the MCAT. [/QUOTE] 975?mod=e2tw

I just saw this and also responded to your PM.

 

[deleted547631]

If you have doubts, it is better to bail now than to wait several semesters and end up with six figures in debt. $400k in debt for dental school is insane. IMHO. Dentists that do residencies are not paid; in fact, they pay the residency program. I also read that the average dentist's salary was really lower than often reported and only around $150k.

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

Insane! I just recently met a guy in endontics residency. Not only is he borrowing almost $80K/year for the next year as a final year dental resident to pay residency tuition fees and living costs he's already $600K in the hole in student loans. I don't envy him.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

If you have doubts, it is better to bail now than to wait several semesters and end up with six figures in debt. $400k in debt for dental school is insane. IMHO. Dentists that do residencies are not paid; in fact, they pay the residency program. I also read that the average dentist's salary was really lower than often reported and only around $150k.

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

Jesus H. Christ. This guy needs to take a job working for the government and keep good records so that he's got a shot at loan forgiveness! A million dollars!

 

[Mocizzle]

Hey so I am a fellow dental to medical switcher. I was accepted to four dental schools. Let’s just say I made my decision very late to switch, but I felt EXACTLY the way you did. In fact my thoughts were almost exactly like yours it’s scary. I was just snooping around on sdn to see if anyone else had gone through this. Anyway, I pulled out before officially starting. And now I’m kind of in limbo and trying to decide whether to go for PA or MD/DO. After reading this though I’m kinda inspired to just go for it and take the MCAT.

Eithers fine man, but if its soley due to the mcat intimidating you then dont give in without a fight. Me and my friend both quit dental and were terrified, he recently just got a 520 on his mcat and God willing I hope to match him when I take mine, no regrets whatsoever

 

[PieOHmy]

I think dental school has a lot more risk. During periods of economic prosperity, business may be booming. During a recession, what is the first medically related thing people let go? Their teeth. If you're having a heart attack or medical issue, you're less likely to put that off. Abscessed teeth are exceptions, but it probably won't be the bulk of your practice either.

Do you have any idea how in demand dentists are?
Im an anesthesiologist, do you know how jacked peoples teeth are?

 

[deleted547631]

Eithers fine man, but if its soley due to the mcat intimidating you then dont give in without a fight. Me and my friend both quit dental and were terrified, he recently just got a 520 on his mcat and God willing I hope to match him when I take mine, no regrets whatsoever

Best of luck! You're going to be WAYYY better off in medicine. Trust me on this one.

 

[cluelessdr]

Hey so I am a fellow dental to medical switcher. I was accepted to four dental schools. Let’s just say I made my decision very late to switch, but I felt EXACTLY the way you did. In fact my thoughts were almost exactly like yours it’s scary. I was just snooping around on sdn to see if anyone else had gone through this. Anyway, I pulled out before officially starting. And now I’m kind of in limbo and trying to decide whether to go for PA or MD/DO. After reading this though I’m kinda inspired to just go for it and take the MCAT.

what are you doing now?