MD & DO Recovered alcoholic thinking about going premed

[jmc31]

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Hi all,

Here's my story: I graduated with a bachelor's degree in 2009 in History/Poli Sci with a 2.2 cGPA. Truth be told I struggled with alcoholism in college and have since turned my life around. I'm now at a community college taking courses geared toward the Nursing major. I received As in both A&P I and A&P II as well as a few other prereqs but had to repeat Gen Chem I because I missed the withdraw date; I went from an F to an A-. For volunteer/work experiences I have one year of volunteer ambulance service as an EMT and also just started volunteering at an old folks home. I have some leadership experience as a manager at a nutrition store (might be a stretch there). Currently I work at a YMCA as a personal trainer but am looking to be a paid EMT. My pan is to establish a sGPA comparable to other premed students in the country within the next few years (at a four year school of course). If I finish, or at least work toward a degree in Biochemistry and work on building my resume in other areas will I ever have a chance at getting into any US MD or DO school? The reason I'm asking is because I've heard of people getting more than one master's degree to try to negate past a crappy undergrad GPA and still not getting in anywhere in the States. Although I would LOVE to do medicine, I am will to be realistic about my chances.

 

[jlescher]

@jmc31. First off, med schools love come backs so you do have a shot. It will take a lot of work but if you can get your sGPA up to a 3.5+ (aim to ace everything) with post bac work, create a strong application, you could get in. Of course having a 2.2 is going to hurt, but you do have an explanation. A lot of schools will overlook you because of that and others will give you a chance (it really depends how much you can pull your cGPA up). Most schools have cut offs at a 3.0. Obviously you'll have a better shot at DO than MD, but MD is possible if you can get the cGPA up to a 3.0. It will look better if half of your transcript is Cs and the rest is As.

You need to get into a hospital. Being an EMT is great, but you need to be around doctors (a letter or two) and patients. This is really important!

Consider doing the pre recs and then following up with a SMP to show you can handle med school level work.

Worst case scenario, you can fall back on going to PA school if MD or DO don't work out.

 

[shopsteward]

Don't have any more Gen Chem I type problems - from now on you need to demonstrate absolute reliability as well as performance at a high level. Any withdraws/failures will make it look as though you are not quite as changed a character as you are saying.

 

[jmc31]

@jmc31. First off, med schools love come backs so you do have a shot. It will take a lot of work but if you can get your sGPA up to a 3.5+ (aim to ace everything) with post bac work, create a strong application, you could get in. Of course having a 2.2 is going to hurt, but you do have an explanation. A lot of schools will overlook you because of that and others will give you a chance (it really depends how much you can pull your cGPA up). Most schools have cut offs at a 3.0. Obviously you'll have a better shot at DO than MD, but MD is possible if you can get the cGPA up to a 3.0. It will look better if half of your transcript is Cs and the rest is As.

You need to get into a hospital. Being an EMT is great, but you need to be around doctors (a letter or two) and patients. This is really important!

Consider doing the pre recs and then following up with a SMP to show you can handle med school level work.

Worst case scenario, you can fall back on going to PA school if MD or DO don't work out.

Don't have any more Gen Chem I type problems - from now on you need to demonstrate absolute reliability as well as performance at a high level. Any withdraws/failures will make it look as though you are not quite as changed a character as you are saying.

Thanks for the replies guys. jlescher, do you think it would be absolutely necessary to do a SMP if ace all the prereques along with calc and a few other higher level bio courses?

 

[jlescher]

Thanks for the replies guys. jlescher, do you think it would be absolutely necessary to do a SMP if ace all the prereques along with calc and a few other higher level bio courses?

It all depends on how much you can pick your GPA up. Short answer, no it's not absolutely necessary.

Crunch the numbers and see what acing everything from here on out will do for your GPA. Average MD acceptance is 3.6-3.7 for science and cumulative GPA, with the low end being around 3.3-3.4 if you have great ECs and MCAT. I would just work hard now and address the SMP decision when you get to it. Given your majors, it doesn't sound like you have done any damage to you sGPA yet so that should be high assuming you do well form now on. For MD you need to get the cumulative above a 3.0 even with your past problems. If you don't, I would say an SMP would be necessary.

I'm less familiar with DO, but in general DO schools averages are ~.2-.3 lower than MD.

 

[lmn]

I would possibly consider DO as it is a faster track and more receptive of reinvention in general, you can do an SMP or informal post-bacc to raise your gpa and replace ones that are necessary. I wouldn't do a masters unless you are doing it with the intent of it being that it can give you a good career if med school fails, most adcoms don't seem to be super receptive to gpa increase from a master's degree program because they assume it to be normal to get a high gpa.

I would also talk with some of our adcom members about your background, I know schools are very forgiving of things from the past at times, but something like alcohol abuse may set off major red flags that will cross you out automatically if you tell schools about it.

 

[jmc31]

I would possibly consider DO as it is a faster track and more receptive of reinvention in general, you can do an SMP or informal post-bacc to raise your gpa and replace ones that are necessary. I wouldn't do a masters unless you are doing it with the intent of it being that it can give you a good career if med school fails, most adcoms don't seem to be super receptive to gpa increase from a master's degree program because they assume it to be normal to get a high gpa.

I would also talk with some of our adcom members about your background, I know schools are very forgiving of things from the past at times, but something like alcohol abuse may set off major red flags that will cross you out automatically if you tell schools about it.

Right I wasn't planning on disclosing the full extent of my problems with alcohol--only the lessons therein. I was young and stupid in college, had no focus and partied way to hard. Like I said I grew up, found my passion and am hoping my past aberrations won't continue to define me. I would be very happy with a DO acceptance. I will crunch the numbers as @jlescher has suggested and see where that brings me. I should mention that I have a solid chance at getting into SGU's post-baccalaureate premedical program (which grants entry to their MD program upon successful completion) but do not want to go the international route until I have exhausted ALL my options here in the US.

 

[lmn]

Right I wasn't planning on disclosing the full extent of my problems with alcohol--only the lessons therein. I was young and stupid in college, had no focus and partied way to hard. Like I said I grew up, found my passion and am hoping my past aberrations won't continue to define me. I would be very happy with a DO acceptance. I will crunch the numbers as @jlescher has suggested and see where that brings me. I should mention that I have a solid chance at getting into SGU's post-baccalaureate premedical program (which grants entry to their MD program upon successful completion) but do not want to go the international route until I have exhausted ALL my options here in the US.

I think your reasoning is right on. Calculate your gpa and model what grade replacements would do for you, depending on your stats you may very easily be able to put yourself into a strong competitive gpa for DO's in as little as a year or so without spending nearly as much as you would for an SMP.

 

[woltej1]

You still have a chance, but you are years away from being in a position to do so. It looks like you are already committed to putting in a few years of work before trying to apply. Odds are you'll be looking at DO school and not MD, but practicing medicine isn't out of your reach, its just a long road ahead.

 

[jmc31]

You still have a chance, but you are years away from being in a position to do so. It looks like you are already committed to putting in a few years of work before trying to apply. Odds are you'll be looking at DO school and not MD, but practicing medicine isn't out of your reach, its just a long road ahead.

The time commitment is the one major deterrent from going down this road; I will be 27 this Fall. The thing that really screws with my mind is the fact that I have an acceptance to a nursing program that begins in the Fall. I'd have to put that off to chase the dream of medicine. Nursing is undoubtedly more practical. I'd start a career much sooner and could eventually become a NP. There is no guarantee that I'd get in anywhere if I were to try for medicine so I run the risk of a huge failure. Asking myself to pull straight As in a biochemistry major is a monumental task, one that even top students would have a hard time with.

 

[woltej1]

The time commitment is the one major deterrent from going down this road; I will be 27 this Fall. The thing that really screws with my mind is the fact that I have an acceptance to a nursing program that begins in the Fall. I'd have to put that off to chase the dream of medicine. Nursing is undoubtedly more practical. I'd start a career much sooner and could eventually become a NP. There is no guarantee that I'd get in anywhere if I were to try for medicine so I run the risk of a huge failure. Asking myself to pull straight As in a biochemistry major is a monumental task, one that even top students would have a hard time with.

Main question is why do you want to become a doctor at this point vs RN or even a PA(even though this would still require some app repairing too).

 

[BobGadha]

First of all, congratulations on your sobriety and for turning your life around! This is a huge accomplishment. I think if you can increase your GPA and boost your ECs significantly, you'd have a shot at DO/"lower tier" MD schools, given your unique history. You need to rock the MCAT and take a good, honest look at what role in healthcare you want to dedicate yourself to. Do you want to pursue this incredibly long, incredibly stressful path? Do you expect these aspects of the road to medicine to potentially challenge your sobriety? I hope I do not speak out of term, but I have a very dear loved one who, too, was recovering before the process and relapsed during school. However, he did not really enter med school for the "right" reasons, so your situation may very well be different. To get as good of an answer to these questions as possible, you need to gain more exposure to clinical settings. See if you can meet with med students at your nearest med school to ask questions about the pressures and process. If you find that you unequivocally want to be a physician and not a nurse/PA, then go for it! Better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all. You have your nursing degree to fall back on if you happen to not receive any med school acceptances. Again, congratulations and best of luck! I'm rooting for you, dude!

 

[jmc31]

@BobGadha thanks for the good words. I like to think I'm not motivated by the money or prestige that a medical career offers. Those things are dwindling for doctors anyhow. I want medicine because I have a love of physiology, medical science, and problem solving. I believe I have a good mind and to be relegated to a career that involves drawing up meds, changing bed pans, and following orders does not suit me. The discussion of nursing vs. medicine is difficult to have without putting down either profession depending on the side of the argument you're on. I just spent the last 45 minutes reading an article that would have anyone doubting if medical school is the right choice given the sacrifice involved. If I were to pursue nursing, the goal would be to become a nurse practitioner. That would involve: finishing the 2-year program to which I was accepted, working full time while completing my BSN (a one year commitment), and then working full time while earning a DNP (required to become a NP in 2015 and beyond). There's no telling exactly how long that would take; I know very little about applying to DNP programs or the requirements thereof. Either way, I'm looking at a process that involves A LOT of work, commitment, and sacrifice, much like medical school. Trying for medicine would involve gathering my prereqs for the next two years, entering med school and finishing residency; a ~9 year commitment when it's said and done. The main difference between the two paths is that I'd be making more money working as a nurse while pursuing the advanced nursing degrees. If the practice of medicine is what I truly want, I say to myself why not put in the few extra years and go for the DO/MD?