Regarding Lab Situation and Procedure to Follow

[polyploidy516]

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Hey all, I would really appreciate your insight in regards to a situation.

Specifically, as I have been working in a lab for about 1.5 years, I was informed by my supervisor ( not the PI) today that since the project that I have been assigned is now done ( I was in charge of a substantial number of things and completed them all), that I will not be needed in the lab anymore.

I would like to know if this is standard protocol to let someone go after their lab project is done? Also, i would like to know if it is possible to request for another project or assignment as I really do not want to let go of this lab experience especially since I will be applying this june?

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

 

[engineer16]

Are you a student or a research assistant? Are you paid?

 

[polyploidy516]

Are you a student or a research assistant? Are you paid?

I am a volunteer research assistant and am currently an undergrad student.

Do you think it will be appropriate of me to ask my PI if I could be assigned to any other projects as I really would like to continue working in the lab?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Yup and yup. It really depends on where you work. I have worked in labs where it is basically a contract to complete the job, I have similarly worked in labs where one project stems to the next and the next etc. It really just depends on how the lab functions. Some have seasons of hard lab time followed by a lot of data analysis and grant stuff.

I would definitely ask if there are further opportunities or if they know of anyone looking for help. I had a 9 month contract position in a USDA lab, and when that was done I asked if they knew anyone else that had work. Two weeks later I was started in a lab on the floor above my previous one. Asking never hurts, so long as you are polite.

 

[Patros]

This is standard protocol for a postdoc who is getting tired of having to supervise someone else. Your project isn't done until the results are published, in which case you can feel free to leave the lab. If not, there should always be something to do, either in this project or in another one.

First, ask your supervisor if there is another project you can do. Make it clear you need to stay at least till June, because this is important for your application. Also this is a good time to let him know that you are going to need his recommendation. Whatever you do and even if he says no, make sure you stay on good terms and make sure you get a good recommendation.

If he says no, ask the PI directly if there is another project to do. But be transparent to your supervisor and let him know you will ask the PI, don't go behind his back and be secretive. If your PI says yes, great. If no, again, make sure that you will at least have a good recommendation.

This happened to me in my junior year after spending ~1 year in a lab. The postdoc said she had no time for this, and the PI deferred to her judgment. So I found another lab for the remaining 1.5 years, which you don't have the time to do. I also left on good terms, and got a decently strong recommendation.

 

[Served]

Hey all, I would really appreciate your insight in regards to a situation.

Specifically, as I have been working in a lab for about 1.5 years, I was informed by my supervisor ( not the PI) today that since the project that I have been assigned is now done ( I was in charge of a substantial number of things and completed them all), that I will not be needed in the lab anymore.

I would like to know if this is standard protocol to let someone go after their lab project is done? Also, i would like to know if it is possible to request for another project or assignment as I really do not want to let go of this lab experience especially since I will be applying this june?

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

Absolutely not...labs don't (or shouldn't) usually dispose of undergrads once they are done with their projects. In my case, I was always asked to come up with other projects, and work in conjunction with other people from different projects. Besides, you can't really "finish" your project to the point where you are no longer needed in the lab; there is no such thing in research. When you think you are done, you always run into new ideas that connect closely to your project for you to work on. Ask your supervisor if there are any other projects.

 

[polyploidy516]

I really appreciate your clarifications!

I guess what I will do is request the PI if there are any additional opportunities as I would like to have a substantial research background before I apply. In addition, I will definitely thank my supervisor who works for the PI and ask her if there are any other projects that require assistance.

Does this sound okay? Thank you once again for everything!

 

[polyploidy516]

update:

So i emailed my supervisor and was told that due to the precious nature of the samples that were used ( DNA), the supervisor found many little errors with the way I and other students processed these samples. Accordingly, she mentioned that from now on, only she will be in charge of these samples

Although I did make some errors, I feel confident that overall the errors that i made were not all directly linked to me but to the other students as well.

i would like to know if it is still appropriate that I ask for other projects or if it is best that I just move on to another lab as it is clear that they don't want students working on the samples?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

update:

So i emailed my supervisor and was told that due to the precious nature of the samples that were used ( DNA), the supervisor found many little errors with the way I and other students processed these samples. Accordingly, she mentioned that from now on, only she will be in charge of these samples

Although I did make some errors, I feel confident that overall the errors that i made were not all directly linked to me but to the other students as well.

i would like to know if it is still appropriate that I ask for other projects or if it is best that I just move on to another lab as it is clear that they don't want students working on the samples?

Yea maybe move on... in this particular case it seems like they are trying to give yall the boot but did not want to call you out on mistakes. No harm, no foul, especially if its still early on in your research endevours... Been doing research for like 5 years now and all things considered, I still suck at it heh... it takes a long time (ie a PHD and post-doc work) to really get great at it. Take it as it is and try and find another opportunity elsewhere. Like someone else mentioned, make sure to leave on a good note as much as possible. For future jobs and such, your past research bosses absolutely can be contacted by future employers. This can either significantly help or hurt you, depending on the manner by which you leave.

 

[polyploidy516]

Yea maybe move on... in this particular case it seems like they are trying to give yall the boot but did not want to call you out on mistakes. No harm, no foul, especially if its still early on in your research endevours... Been doing research for like 5 years now and all things considered, I still suck at it heh... it takes a long time (ie a PHD and post-doc work) to really get great at it. Take it as it is and try and find another opportunity elsewhere. Like someone else mentioned, make sure to leave on a good note as much as possible. For future jobs and such, your past research bosses absolutely can be contacted by future employers. This can either significantly help or hurt you, depending on the manner by which you leave.

i really appreciate your response! do you think I should fight this in anyway as these mistakes are not directly linked to me? I just double checked my notebook results with some of the discrepencies that were mentioned. My notebook shows that I was not responsible for those discrepencies.

Should I in anyway fight this or would it just be best to move on even in this case?

thank you once again for everything!

 

[lalax]

i really appreciate your response! do you think I should fight this in anyway as these mistakes are not directly linked to me? I just double checked my notebook results with some of the discrepencies that were mentioned. My notebook shows that I was not responsible for those discrepencies.

Should I in anyway fight this or would it just be best to move on even in this case?

thank you once again for everything!

Don't fight for anything, since the most important aspect of this is for you to end up in good terms with your supervisor so that you can at least get a letter of recommendation out of it. What you could do is ask if there are any other projects or work you could do at the lab, and while you are asking you can mention that you cross-referenced the discrepancies with your notebook and you're confident none of them were yours, that you understand that given the precious nature of the samples a more experienced person should be handling them, but perhaps you could work in a different project.

 

[type12]

i really appreciate your response! do you think I should fight this in anyway as these mistakes are not directly linked to me? I just double checked my notebook results with some of the discrepencies that were mentioned. My notebook shows that I was not responsible for those discrepencies.

Should I in anyway fight this or would it just be best to move on even in this case?

thank you once again for everything!

What are you going to fight? She is being courteous and not saying, "You're more harm than good." Instead, she's letting you part amicably.

I would pad that on my resume and move on. DO NOT fight this, be nice. There are times to burn bridges, this is not one of them.

EDIT: lol, faster poster above. Yes, what they said.

Also, don't ask for a recommendation.

 

[Stoptheclot]

i really appreciate your response! do you think I should fight this in anyway as these mistakes are not directly linked to me? I just double checked my notebook results with some of the discrepencies that were mentioned. My notebook shows that I was not responsible for those discrepencies.

Should I in anyway fight this or would it just be best to move on even in this case?

thank you once again for everything!

Never play the blame game in research - error is a part of research, and even if its not your fault, its still worth learning from. Anyway, just focus on you and how YOU want to continue developing/improving your research skills.

Is your research through a research institution? or is it through your university? Funding assistance in undergrad universities usually are a little more flexible to moving students around, but research institutions (like the one I work in) is completely dependent on NIH funding - once the grant dries up and if there aren't any others to keep the lab going... time to find elsewhere to work. I strongly agree with:

I would definitely ask if there are further opportunities or if they know of anyone looking for help... Asking never hurts, so long as you are polite.

I'm working in a VERY well funded lab, and several lab techs/post-docs/research assistants have passed through ours after their previous lab folded from lack of funding. They were very polite yet driven individuals - good luck to whatever you choose!!

 

[polyploidy516]

What are you going to fight? She is being courteous and not saying, "You're more harm than good." Instead, she's letting you part amicably.

I would pad that on my resume and move on. DO NOT fight this, be nice. There are times to burn bridges, this is not one of them.

EDIT: lol, faster poster above. Yes, what they said.

Also, don't ask for a recommendation.

ha very true. i was not really going to fight. I was moreso going to just say how i feel that there were discrepencies in my notebook. I will definitely ask if there are any other projects available that do not involve the use of precious samples given my inexperience.

I will definitely be polite and forward as I really do not want to burn this bridge particularly since this lab is affiliated with my top choice med school ( the PI is a high ranking professor in the med school). I just dont want this experience to be used against me later on.

 

[polyploidy516]

Never play the blame game in research - error is a part of research, and even if its not your fault, its still worth learning from. Anyway, just focus on you and how YOU want to continue developing/improving your research skills.

Is your research through a research institution? or is it through your university? Funding assistance in undergrad universities usually are a little more flexible to moving students around, but research institutions (like the one I work in) is completely dependent on NIH funding - once the grant dries up and if there aren't any others to keep the lab going... time to find elsewhere to work. I strongly agree with:


I'm working in a VERY well funded lab, and several lab techs/post-docs/research assistants have passed through ours after their previous lab folded from lack of funding. They were very polite yet driven individuals - good luck to whatever you choose!!

i really appreciate your clarification: this research is actually through a research university which has its own medical center. I will definitely not fight this and will just humbly ask if there are any other opportunities available given my situation and time.

thank you once again!

 

[Stoptheclot]

...this lab is affiliated with my top choice med school ( the PI is a high ranking professor in the med school). I just dont want this experience to be used against me later on.

THIS is huge - not a shoo-in to the same med school, but the PI I work for is heavily networked and at a couple interviews, the interviewers asked me, "SO, whats it like workin for Dr. PI?!" I'd recommend keeping tabs with your PI for a LOR. The whole DNA incident aside, as long as you have a bright, shining personality/qualities as a student, you'll be in great shape!

 

[polyploidy516]

THIS is huge - not a shoo-in to the same med school, but the PI I work for is heavily networked and at a couple interviews, the interviewers asked me, "SO, whats it like workin for Dr. PI?!" I'd recommend keeping tabs with your PI for a LOR. The whole DNA incident aside, as long as you have a bright, shining personality/qualities as a student, you'll be in great shape!

i really appreciate your clarification ! i have already contacted my PI asking for other opportunities. I will also contact the supervisor as well and leave on good terms with her.

Do you think the mistake that I am being blamed for will be used against me during the application season even if I part on good terms with the PI ( if there are no further opportunities available that is) and receive an LOR? I am actually really concerned about this as i know that this prof is very well connected with the med school and is the director of several programs in the medical school.

thank you once again!

 

[Stoptheclot]

i really appreciate your clarification ! i have already contacted my PI asking for other opportunities. I will also contact the supervisor as well and leave on good terms with her.

Do you think the mistake that I am being blamed for will be used against me during the application season even if I part on good terms with the PI ( if there are no further opportunities available that is) and receive an LOR? I am actually really concerned about this as i know that this prof is very well connected with the med school and is the director of several programs in the medical school.

thank you once again!

As in the PI writes a strong LOR and the research mistake holds you back? Very doubtful. Unless they mention you in a publication with free access on PubMed that reads "Trouble with DNA samples: why you should never trust undergrads with laboratory work." 😉 Your PI is the one who is responsible for assessing your work in the lab. If he doesn't mention it in the letter, it really won't affect your application to med school. (Another heads up: be able to describe the research you worked with too, interviewers love to see if you REALLY know what you're doing, beyond lab work.)

 

[polyploidy516]

i really appreciate your clarification: the thing is I do not know if they will mention it in my LOR and I really do not want to take the risk that they do so.

should I just talk to the PI in this case and ask if there are any other opportunities available as I learned from my mistake etc?

 

[type12]

The vibe I get is this experience is a bust. The PI already asked him to leave. You can be stubborn, but I don't think it'll get you anywhere, honestly.

This is just my impression from what is written, though.

 

[polyploidy516]

The vibe I get is this experience is a bust. The PI already asked him to leave. You can be stubborn, but I don't think it'll get you anywhere, honestly.

This is just my impression from what is written, though.

actually, the PI didnt ask me to leave, the supervisor just mentioned that I should not come in due to the little errors that were being done. I have already emailed the PI and am hoping for a response.

 

[Stoptheclot]

actually, the PI didnt ask me to leave, the supervisor just mentioned that I should not come in due to the little errors that were being done. I have already emailed the PI and am hoping for a response.

You know, its hard to tell because:
1, we don't know your PI.
2, we don't know what the "many little errors" were.
3, we don't know how severe these errors were and how closely tied you are to them.

I think you're over-analyzing it, but maybe I'm only thinking of my position. I've been a lab tech for the past two years. I've made mistakes, and so have the summer-intern/undergrad students. One of the undergrad students messed up bad enough that we had to repeat three weeks of assays to catch up. She still got a great LOR because she accepted responsibility, asked what she did wrong and then fixed it... because that's just how science is. I'd have a chat with your PI - unless (s)he REALLY doesn't like you, it won't be mentioned in the letter. But your PI will be the one to help you out the most at this point.

 

[polyploidy516]

You know, its hard to tell because:
1, we don't know your PI.
2, we don't know what the "many little errors" were.
3, we don't know how severe these errors were and how closely tied you are to them.

I think you're over-analyzing it, but maybe I'm only thinking of my position. I've been a lab tech for the past two years. I've made mistakes, and so have the summer-intern/undergrad students. One of the undergrad students messed up bad enough that we had to repeat three weeks of assays to catch up. She still got a great LOR because she accepted responsibility, asked what she did wrong and then fixed it... because that's just how science is. I'd have a chat with your PI - unless (s)he REALLY doesn't like you, it won't be mentioned in the letter. But your PI will be the one to help you out the most at this point.

I really appreciate your response!

I think the best course of action for me is to just talk to the PI and see what to do from there. I have already sent her an email and am anxiously waiting for a response.

The PI does seem to like me as I have been praised in the past. In regards to the errors, im only tied to some of them as there were several people working on the same project.

I will definitely mention to my supervisor that I do accept responsibility for any error that I made. Hopefully, they will reconsider giving me another project or something else can be done. Otherwise, Ill just find another lab.

any other insight would be greatly appreciated!. thank you once again for everything!

 

[polyploidy516]

update:

I ended up emailing my PI and was told that she does not have any more projects available right now but will definitely inform me when there are other projects that are available.

However, my supervisor mentioned to me that she does not need any more help with the samples as she will take care of them herself.

My question is, how should I go about this? I guess the PI isnt as mad as I thought. Do you think this will result in further conflict later if I go back to the lab to work with another project with the PI but not the supervisor?

In addition, do you think I could still go for an LOR from this PI as it appears my PI likes me even though my supervisor does not want my help anymore?

Your further clarification would be appreciated as I want to explore all routes.

 

[Served]

update:

I ended up emailing my PI and was told that she does not have any more projects available right now but will definitely inform me when there are other projects that are available.

However, my supervisor mentioned to me that she does not need any more help with the samples as she will take care of them herself.

My question is, how should I go about this? I guess the PI isnt as mad as I thought. Do you think this will result in further conflict later if I go back to the lab to work with another project with the PI but not the supervisor?

In addition, do you think I could still go for an LOR from this PI as it appears my PI likes me even though my supervisor does not want my help anymore?

Your further clarification would be appreciated as I want to explore all routes.

I'm really baffled as to why she wants you to actually leave the lab until she finds a new project. Why can't you just stay in the lab, and look for new projects yourself? I don't see any problems of letting you do that especially when you are an unpaid volunteer. Do you screw up a lot when generating your data?

Whatever the reason may be, I guess there is nothing you can do if she's so adamant. Before you leave though, I would definitely give her a heads up about the letter of recommendation. Has she (not your supervisor) interacted with you enough to write you a solid recommendation letter?

 

[polyploidy516]

Im really sorry for the confusion; my supervisor ( a lab tech) actually told me that she didnt need me anymore because of the mistakes and issues that were arising.

However, the PI told me that she would put me on another project later when she has another available ( via email after my supervisor told me not to come).

Would getting a LOR still be okay in that case even though the supervisor and I had this issue but the PI still seems to like me enough to consider me for another?

 

[type12]

I'm really baffled by how obvious a hint this is, yet it's taking a while to sink in. You're done, they are being nice about it. You will feel even more awkward when you see someone else email and get a spot. They gave you a chance, and you weren't the right fit. Someone hates you, whether that's the PI or the supervisor, you'll never know. Either way, someone more valuable to the team wants you out.

You need to learn that this is how people are dismissed in the real world.
http://www.askamanager.org/2010/06/does-well-keep-your-resume-on-file.html
(Don't read too much into the exceptions or rare cases in that link)

It happens. I know this was your ace for medical school, but you will find others. You can ask for a recommendation, but they will most likely decline your request rather than write a bad one.

 

[polyploidy516]

I'm really baffled by how obvious a hint this is, yet it's taking a while to sink in. You're done, they are being nice about it. You will feel even more awkward when you see someone else email and get a spot. They gave you a chance, and you weren't the right fit. Someone hates you, whether that's the PI or the supervisor, you'll never know. Either way, someone more valuable to the team wants you out.

You need to learn that this is how people are dismissed in the real world.
http://www.askamanager.org/2010/06/does-well-keep-your-resume-on-file.html
(Don't read too much into the exceptions or rare cases in that link)

It happens. I know this was your ace for medical school, but you will find others. You can ask for a recommendation, but they will most likely decline your request rather than write a bad one.

ha, i definitely got the hint earlier; I have already started to email other PI's.

I was just confused as I have never had a PI respond to me like this. Usually, they deny or do not respond to my email. I guess there is a first for everything.

Thanks again for everything!

 

[mdambitions]

As many others have mentioned, it sounds like this PI is giving you every possible opportunity to walk away with what's left of your dignity. If you still aren't sure about how this is going to play out, schedule an appointment for an "exit-interview", go to his office, tell him you appreciate the unbelievable opportunity he's given you. Tell him how much you've learned, especially from your mistakes. Every person, in every research lab, in the history of time, has made mistakes; so own them. The point is to learn from them, and move on with grace. When you talk to him - face to face - ask him if after your experience together, he would feel comfortable writing an EXCELLENT letter of recommendation for you. If there is even a picosecond of hesitation; you have your answer. Professors barely have time to write LORs for students they love, they aren't going to waste time writing a slanderous one. Nobody on here can tell you how to interpret your dynamic with your research team. You have received plenty of excellent advice about how to move forward. Good Luck.

 

[stevvo111]

Im really sorry for the confusion; my supervisor ( a lab tech) actually told me that she didnt need me anymore because of the mistakes and issues that were arising.

However, the PI told me that she would put me on another project later when she has another available ( via email after my supervisor told me not to come).

Would getting a LOR still be okay in that case even though the supervisor and I had this issue but the PI still seems to like me enough to consider me for another?

Yeah dude, it appears that you are done. Have an exit interview to highlight what you learned, etc so that she has great anecdotes for your letter, and then dipset. Ask for a strong letter of recommendation, the worst she can do is say "no". The alright thing that can happen is she writes a standard letter, and the best thing is she writes a glowing one. As you can see, none of the above scenarios hurts you. Get a letter from your PI and catch up once in a while. No point in stressing over it...unless this means you have no job for the remainder of the year.

Clearest hint is the fact that someone wants you completely out. Not even demoted to washing the lab bench or fetching coffee, but out. If the PI wanted you around, she would have said this (unless of course you made it clear you didn't want to do anything like this to prove your worth).

I'm really baffled by how obvious a hint this is, yet it's taking a while to sink in. You're done, they are being nice about it. You will feel even more awkward when you see someone else email and get a spot. They gave you a chance, and you weren't the right fit. Someone hates you, whether that's the PI or the supervisor, you'll never know. Either way, someone more valuable to the team wants you out.

You need to learn that this is how people are dismissed in the real world.
http://www.askamanager.org/2010/06/does-well-keep-your-resume-on-file.html
(Don't read too much into the exceptions or rare cases in that link)

It happens. I know this was your ace for medical school, but you will find others. You can ask for a recommendation, but they will most likely decline your request rather than write a bad one.

Totally agree with this. Analyze what you did wrong this time so next time you are never in this position. I know you feel you did absolutely nothing wrong, but contemplate about it and write down anything you might have said, done, or not done that might have caused someone to dismiss you.

But yeah, you got a good experience, now go out and find another good experience. Listing this PI on your app, and her rec will only serve to help your application. There is little to possibly no way anything you did in this lab will take away your chances of getting in here.

 

[polyploidy516]

hey all:

I would like to give an update in regards to this situation. As I asked my PI and supervisor if I could list them as references, they enthusiastically said yes. In addition, when i applied for another research job , the PI for the new lab contacted my old PI...i was hired!

I would really like to know if getting a LOR from my previous PI would be alright in this case as I was able get a new lab position and as my new PI is friends with my old PI, etc? I did part on good terms with the previous lab...do you think i will still be able to get a strong LOR from this previous PI despite that mistake I made in lab as I was positively recommended? or would it be taking too much of a risk?

 

[kyamh]

hey all:

I would like to give an update in regards to this situation. As I asked my PI and supervisor if I could list them as references, they enthusiastically said yes. In addition, when i applied for another research job , the PI for the new lab contacted my old PI...i was hired!

I would really like to know if getting a LOR from my previous PI would be alright in this case as I was able get a new lab position and as my new PI is friends with my old PI, etc? I did part on good terms with the previous lab...do you think i will still be able to get a strong LOR from this previous PI despite that mistake I made in lab as I was positively recommended? or would it be taking too much of a risk?

Thank you for the update! It's always nice to see how these things turn out 🙂 I think you are safe to ask for a LOR from your previous PI. Be sure to ask for a "strong" letter of recommendation, just in case and look for any lack of enthusiasm.

 

[polyploidy516]

I really appreciate your response! When I emailed my pi asking for a a strong lor, he said he'll wrote me a lor as long as I provide my cv... I provided my cv as well as a summary of my reasons for wanting to go to med school ( wanting to serve the under served and how this experience helped me,etc).

However when I asked if I could meet with him, I didn't get a response.... Do you think overall the letter will be strong in this case as he had agreed to write me one after I specifically asked him for a strong one? This pi has a fantastic rep and is known to write great letters...

Your further thoughts and advice would be appreciated!