Regents of the University of California v. Bakke 1978

[Golfing_Doc]

When you search through MDAPPS and look at current 2007 profiles of people who have interviewed or been accepted at some of the UC medical schools I would like to visit and have had no positive contact from post-secondary (UCI, UCD, UCLA), I can't help but wonder whether ADCOMs have learned from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke

One would hope that the most qualified applicants: GPA/ MCAT/ ECs/ publications/ dedication & determination in the PS would be interviewed first, regardless of race or age (w/in reason). It's so odd to be rejected for interviews from my home state schools (CA) for no apparent reason other than perhaps being in the racial majority (caucasian or asian). I don't mind being rejected post interview but to make decisions regarding your class without interviewing all of the most qualified candidates who really WANT to go to your school? Perhaps BU, Tufts, Vandy have it right by interviewing so many ~1000 or even Drexel that interviews 1600+.

This isn't meant to incite AA supporters at all. The lawsuit was just brought to my attention and I wanted to share it. I had no idea about the ruling finding reverse discrimination in medical school admissions. G'luck with this crazy, maddening process everyone.

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[Ridcully]

One would hope that the most qualified applicants: GPA/ MCAT/ ECs/ publications/ dedication & determination in the PS would be interviewed first, regardless of race or age (w/in reason). It's so odd to be rejected for interviews from my home state schools (CA) for no apparent reason other than perhaps being in the racial majority (caucasian or asian).

Why do you think you are being rejected because of race?

Edit: I mean, there's any number of factors that could be responsible. If you feel like your stats put you up among the "most qualified", perhaps some schools believe you regard them as back-ups. It seems odd to fixate on race as being the reason, given how random the process is.

 

[cgscribe]

I thought that decision only decided that there can't be a value/score added to a candidate due to their ethnic status. But, it can still be taken into account when looking at applicants...Also, there was a UMich vs. _____ case a couple years ago that dealt with the same issue, but I'm unsure what it decided. In the end, I think it's impossible to deny that URM's are receiving some advantage (for better or worse), but that white applicants aren't just being discarded.

 

[cgscribe]

P.S. Ridcully, you are pretty much the most incredible applicant...ever.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Prop 209 superceded the Bakke decision in California. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race in CA. However, it is still legal in other states thanks to Grutter v. UM.

 

[kidthor]

It's worth note that Prop 209 only applies to public schools.

 

[cgscribe]

What's their definition of discriminate? Is UC application totally race-blind then?

 

[Golfing_Doc]

I simply think something is amiss in this interview selection process, race or otherwise. I have been blessed enough to be interviewed and accepted at some amazing schools and have a couple more trips planned including UCSF and Cornell. However, when push comes to shove, I would like to have the opportunity to stay in state. But to be put on hold at 3 other UCs? I wonder what they are looking for that others aren't...

 

[cgscribe]

Hmmm, to be interviewing at UCSF but not the others just seems odd. It's probably part of the whole "crapshoot" philosophy, unless your stats/ec's make you so great that the other UC's think they're back-ups.

 

[Golfing_Doc]

That's why it IS so odd. Going into the process, one of my top choices was UCSD due to proximity to family, newborn nephew, solid reputation of school/curriculum, location, etc etc. Only after being advised to 'appeal' the hold decision at UCSD was I able to get an interview. Maybe all of this is a sign that I should adventure elsewhere for the next 4 years. I would never have thought ANY of the UCs would be considered backups because of how difficult it is to get accepted to any of them.

 

[cgscribe]

Right. Yeah, your interest is genuine in all of them, but your stats are remarkable! I'm sure things will work out for UCSF/UCSD for you. Especially when you interview at SD and explain how interested you are. You've got great options already, I really wouldn't look too much into why some schools aren't showing you love.

 

[Golfing_Doc]

thanks cgscribe. perhaps i'll hear from northwestern one of these days soon and meet you at a 'second look'. props to the CSU, JC/CC system too. great stats and app to you too.

 

[cgscribe]

Yeah, your interview was pretty recent, have you checked your status page? You might have a decision.

 

[maestro1625]

Right. Yeah, your interest is genuine in all of them, but your stats are remarkable! I'm sure things will work out for UCSF/UCSD for you. Especially when you interview at SD and explain how interested you are. You've got great options already, I really wouldn't look too much into why some schools aren't showing you love.

the process is random... blaming it on your race is rather immature. sorry to say it, but...

 

[Golfing_Doc]

the process is random... blaming it on your race is rather immature. sorry to say it, but...

Thanks for your opinion. Again, I'm not blaming anything at all because this cycle has been a favorable one for me thus far. I just wanted to post the wikipedia link to educate others about something they may not have known. What's that saying about learning from history otherwise you're doomed to repeat it?

For you- would you 'randomly' pick the students in your multi-million dollar program with your educational reputation on the line? I don't think so. I think you're going to do your damnest to find the best, brightest, and most diverse students you can to build your class around. I know many applicants this cycle and it is curious as to who is getting the secondaries and who is getting the quickest interviews upon completion. It's actually hard to overlook because it is definitely not about just stats or ECs.

 

[senioritaelena]

I do not mean to be the barer of reality, but look at it this way. There are way more white and asian docs out there than any other racial group. Did you ever think that a poorer minority person may not feel comfortable or appreciated if he went to see a doctor whose race is known for being more well off or have had historical problems with. I think that the unspoken "quotas" of accepting minority students is a blessing fo rthe American comunity. I think that in the near future this will show the results of having more people actually see doctors and get help for simple ailments that may not have previously for the already stated reason.
I am not saying to let in a minority student with a 2.7 over a nin-minority with a 3.7, but it is the time to start equalling out the colour balance in North America's doctors.

 

[Ridcully]

This will end well...

 

[maestro1625]

For you- would you 'randomly' pick the students in your multi-million dollar program with your educational reputation on the line? I don't think so. I think you're going to do your damnest to find the best, brightest, and most diverse students you can to build your class around. I know many applicants this cycle and it is curious as to who is getting the secondaries and who is getting the quickest interviews upon completion. It's actually hard to overlook because it is definitely not about just stats or ECs.

ever hear the phrase "it's more than numbers?" honestly, if you didnt see how this was going to start an affirmative action flamewar, you might need to step back a second and really look at the big picture.

and besides, if anyone was going to "reject you for being white" It'd be Michigan... 🙄

 

[Golfing_Doc]

I do not mean to be the barer of reality, but look at it this way. There are way more white and asian docs out there than any other racial group. Did you ever think that a poorer minority person may not feel comfortable or appreciated if he went to see a doctor whose race is known for being more well off or have had historical problems with. I think that the unspoken "quotas" of accepting minority students is a blessing for the American comunity. I think that in the near future this will show the results of having more people actually see doctors and get help for simple ailments that may not have previously for the already stated reason.
I am not saying to let in a minority student with a 2.7 over a non-minority with a 3.7, but it is the time to start equalling out the colour balance in North America's doctors.

I agree with you senioritaelena as long as both are comparably qualified (within reason). This leads me to plug an excellent book I'm reading that actually talks about some of the trial and tribulations of a URM returning to her roots to practice after going away to an Ivy for undergrad (Dartmouth) and then to a western medical school (in this case, Stanford). Check it out.

http://www.amazon.com/Scalpel-Silver-Bear-Medicine-Traditional/dp/0553378007

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

I do not mean to be the barer of reality, but look at it this way. There are way more white and asian docs out there than any other racial group. Did you ever think that a poorer minority person may not feel comfortable or appreciated if he went to see a doctor whose race is known for being more well off or have had historical problems with. I think that the unspoken "quotas" of accepting minority students is a blessing fo rthe American comunity. I think that in the near future this will show the results of having more people actually see doctors and get help for simple ailments that may not have previously for the already stated reason.
I am not saying to let in a minority student with a 2.7 over a nin-minority with a 3.7, but it is the time to start equalling out the colour balance in North America's doctors.

It all comes down to whether or not you believe an individual has a civil right not be discriminated against on the basis of race in any program receiving federal financial assistance. Remember, our laws protect individuals, not groups. A white or asian’s civil rights does not depend on how many "white and asian docs" out are there. Their rights depend solely on the fact that they are human beings.

 

[boo-yeh]

Bakke isn't applicable. There are no quota systems for med schools.

 

[PinkLilly1]

Thanks for your opinion. Again, I'm not blaming anything at all because this cycle has been a favorable one for me thus far. I just wanted to post the wikipedia link to educate others about something they may not have known. What's that saying about learning from history otherwise you're doomed to repeat it?

Ain't that the truth.

For you- would you 'randomly' pick the students in your multi-million dollar program with your educational reputation on the line? I don't think so. I think you're going to do your damnest to find the best, brightest, and most diverse students you can to build your class around. I know many applicants this cycle and it is curious as to who is getting the secondaries and who is getting the quickest interviews upon completion. It's actually hard to overlook because it is definitely not about just stats or ECs.

You know it really amazes me that year after year I talk to students who think that they deserve a place in medical school because they managed to pull off a 4.0. I think everyone needs to get realistic - its not all about the gpa. Especially if that is all you did for four years.

I have a friend who was accepted to a few med schools recently. He had an almost perfect gpa, but far from spectacular (although not average) MCAT scores and he is asian. His ec's consisted of a month of volunteering experience and some unimportant research (he probably fudged some of his ecs on his app). He also transferred to a school far beneath his abilities so that he could maintain that gpa. Frankly he is a very personable guy but his only real reason for applying to med school is the prestige of being a doctor. However he managed to get interviews and acceptances at several middle of the road schools. Now there are lots of students who deserve to be in medical school before this guy, but that the way it goes...

 

[kate_g]

I have been blessed enough to be interviewed and accepted at some amazing schools and have a couple more trips planned including UCSF and Cornell. However, when push comes to shove, I would like to have the opportunity to stay in state. But to be put on hold at 3 other UCs?

There are what, 5 UC med schools? And they all know you applied to all of them, right? In addition, apparently, to some out of state schools. And they also know you can only actually attend one school. Davis, in particular, apparently has a reputation for rejecting people that they assume won't actually go there (because they're also interviewing at UCSF, or have interests way outside Davis' typical scope). This is an unsubstantiated rumor-type reputation, but it's what I've heard. Makes sense, if they don't want to do 1000 interviews and think you're likely to be a wasted time slot...

 

[ms2007plz]

I simply think something is amiss in this interview selection process, race or otherwise. I have been blessed enough to be interviewed and accepted at some amazing schools and have a couple more trips planned including UCSF and Cornell. However, when push comes to shove, I would like to have the opportunity to stay in state. But to be put on hold at 3 other UCs? I wonder what they are looking for that others aren't...

It could be your personal statement, but most likely it is just the randomness of the process. There isn't one person reviewing all applications, so of course there is some randomness in the process and there is no way to standardize it completely. Listen, you got an interview to UCSD, and according to the MSAR 61/121=50% of students from the 2005-2006 1st year class were white. And you got a hold at UCI, where 58/103 =56% of students self-reported as white. You're obviously a strong applicant and I think you will get into a UC, but I don't think you can use the race card to explain why you were offered interviews at some UCs and not others....Good luck to you!!!