Rejected from EM program but scheduled for Audition Rotation??

[TPBC]

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Hi,
Yes, I got the big rejection email from my first choice EM program. That said, I am scheduled to do an audition rotation with them in December. Should I go ahead as planned or try to switch to something else with more promise. I have done very well during my two EM months. Has anyone heard of them reconsidering the application if they are impressed with you during the audition rotation? Probably a lost cause but thought I would ask.

 

[Xerxes1729]

You could just ask the program coordinator if there's any chance you'd get an interview. What's the worst that could happen? They've already said no.

 

[hothause]

Hi,
Yes, I got the big rejection email from my first choice EM program. That said, I am scheduled to do an audition rotation with them in December. Should I go ahead as planned or try to switch to something else with more promise. I have done very well during my two EM months. Has anyone heard of them reconsidering the application if they are impressed with you during the audition rotation? Probably a lost cause but thought I would ask.

Ouch, yea, I would contact the coordinator to see if there's a shot that they'd reconsider. If not, then unless you'll get some great learning opportunity there that you won't elsewhere (seems doubtful), why bother going to the program?

 

[meowdoc]

I say forget them and take what you have to offer somewhere else.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

Is there something that stands out as a red flag in your file?

I think its a catch 22... they already 'rejected you' based on what they saw. The chances of them having a revelation after meeting you and auditioning is probably pretty slim. I think I would email them politely and say something like "Since I was already rejected, I think it would be in my best interest to decline your spot as an away rotation". You should then look for another place, which may be difficult already at this point...

Do you at least have one other place so that you do have one SLOR in your file? You post says you have done 2 EMs already. If you did two rotation at academic programs and have SLORs... I would save the money and stay at your home place and do something like Opthalmology...

 

[sunset823]

I have a related question. I'm not planning on doing away rotations, since I'm geographically pretty flexible and not really committed to any one place. However, I am contemplating doing one or two rotations at my hometown program, which happens to be UMich. My chances of getting an interview there are pretty slim to none based on my stats (though if I did interview there, it's without question my top choice), but I know the hospital and I could spend some time with my family since I'd be home. Do you think this is a good idea? Would I be taking spots away from people who need the away rotation more?

Edit: I'm not planning on applying to EM, probably IM, but I'm just piggybacking here since it's related to the OPs question.

 

[Redrox]

Edit: I'm not planning on applying to EM, probably IM, but I'm just piggybacking here since it's related to the OPs question.

Answer probably would be answered better in an Internal forum. Doubtful anybody here has experience applying IM and you'll get more than hearsay than insight.

My two cents FWIW. Take the spot and spend time with your family, intern year is rough. Away rotations are less important for IM so it's doubtful you'll be torpedoing anybody's chances of matching at your program or shooting yourself in the foot by not taking an away yourself. Even a marginal IM candidate's gonna get gobs of good interview invites.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Most people who rotate get a courtesy interview. I would ask that way.

Something like I am scheduled to rotate with you in December. Can I interview during that time?

 

[otacon88]

Most people who rotate get a courtesy interview. I would ask that way.

Something like I am scheduled to rotate with you in December. Can I interview during that time?

But if the program has already rejected him, would there be any benefit of even doing the rotation - it's like begging to stay in a relationship when the other party has already said no. I'd think it would be of more value to do another rotation elsewhere where you'd like to go if you can find one. I know I sure wouldn't want to be at a program that didn't find me "acceptable." - it's probably more of an ego thing, but still I think it's valid!

 

[shoal]

i agree. i see no reason in doing the rotation there if you are not going to get an interview especially since your time would be better spent somewhere else.

As another poster stated, I would call and cancel the audition rotation stating that you would like to cancel your rotation with them given that you were not extended an interview offer. Of course, phrasing of this statement would require some choice words.

 

[TPBC]

Is there something that stands out as a red flag in your file?

OP here. Only red flag is non-traditional student. Passed everything first time and slightly above average but not stellar.

Thanks to everyone for the excellent comments!

 

[gman33]

There is something about your app they didn't like for whatever reason.

I'd just move on and try to schedule a rotation at another site where you might have a better shot.

 

[Abraxax]

Most people who rotate get a courtesy interview. I would ask that way.

Something like I am scheduled to rotate with you in December. Can I interview during that time?

I'm sorry this happened, OP. I'm also sorry to hear that it can happen at all. I scheduled some EM away rotations in October and November. I thought that there were several mechanisms that would keep something like this from happening. First, some programs (not all, I've noticed) ask for grades and step 1 & 2 scores before granting an away rotation, and I would hope they would have rejected an applicant outright if there was something basic they found so unsavory (not sure if the program you were going to requested that information ahead of time or not). Second, I did think that the medical school clerkship director and residency program director (or someone related) would have some vague communication - enough to grant those courtesy interviews, or at least to not reject you prior to your "audition" rotation. Finally, I had hoped that most programs would wait at least until November, after the dean's letter went out and applications became complete - obviously that's not something we can rely on. Really makes it dicey to plan away rotations.

Good luck, OP. I hope you find another away rotation asap. For what it's worth, I just scheduled one myself, so they are around (as other students cancel with little notice).

 

[StevieStud]

One would think the institution would not want to invest time, money and staff resources in a lengthy audition rotation if the candidate wasn't at least semi-viable.

And the OP obviously made the cut for the audition.... a process that I would imagine includes several manual reviews by various professional staff members (PD, HR etc) prior to acceptance.

So why the rejection of a simple interview?

Could there be a higher standard for the interview? I can't image how or why. Instead, I suspect the review process of the interview application was more automated and the OP was rejected because of a grade, test score or combination of thereof.


Unless there is some screaming new negative factor to consider (ie that meth conviction from last week), I would give the institution a chance to correct the errors of their ways.

Carefully.

Being a little passive aggressive.

Respectfully decline the audition by asking the institution if they would still like you to attend the audition after giving you notice of no interview.

There MIGHT be a chance that the PD (or whomever) will take a hard look at their interview application process and your application and decide if there is some wiggle room in the system to grant you an interview.

Of course if the response is "no, it would be best if you declined the audition" then you know there is no hope for an interview regardless of your level of begging.

 

[NinerNiner999]

"Dear [program director],

My name is [insert name] and I am a 4th year medical student who is scheduled to attend an Emergency Medicine rotation at your program in [insert month]. As part of the educational preparation for my residency training, I value your program as an integral part of my clinical and professional development. I see unique potential in your program that I feel will compliment my learning style and better prepare me for my residency experience.

As you may be aware, I have received a letter from your program informing me that I have not been invited to interview for a residency position. While I accept your position as likely a viewpoint of my own credentials that I need to improve upon, I am hopeful that during my rotation month with your program, you can help me identify these characteristics that need improvement, so I can mature and be a stronger resident as I pursue my career in Emergency Medicine.

I consider rotating with your department to be an opportunity that can only help me with my clinical, professional, and interpersonal development, and I look forward to working with you, your staff, and your residents. It is my hope that we can meet personally prior to the beginning of my rotation, and that your program can guide my focus, even for just a month of time, in the direction I will be best served for my future practice in our field. If you have any questions or need to contact me prior to the beginning of my rotation, I can be reached at [insert phone number].

Sincerely Yours,

[Insert Name]"


Mail this as soon as possible, and as far in advance of your rotation as possible. Call two weeks later to confirm receipt and schedule a meeting with the P.D. before your first shift. Ask to be scheduled for two shifts WITH the P.D. near the end of your month for on-the-job feedback. Be in that department every day, and work your ass off. Go out with the residents and know them. Get them to like you.

Most important - have fun.

 

[peppy]

Personally I would cut my losses in this kind of situation. If they rejected you, how likely is it that they're going to rank you highly even if you do manage to talk them into interviewing you? I'd rather save the away rotation for a place that might be more receptive rather than looking at it as a hail Mary attempt to try to change this PD's mind.
I am of the school of thought that it's better not to waste people's time and give them false hope by doing courtesy interviews if the program really isn't thinking of them as a viable candidate.

 

[TPBC]

"Dear [program director],

My name is [insert name] and I am a 4th year medical student who is scheduled to attend an Emergency Medicine rotation at your program in [insert month]. As part of the educational preparation for my residency training, I value your program as an integral part of my clinical and professional development. I see unique potential in your program that I feel will compliment my learning style and better prepare me for my residency experience.

As you may be aware, I have received a letter from your program informing me that I have not been invited to interview for a residency position. While I accept your position as likely a viewpoint of my own credentials that I need to improve upon, I am hopeful that during my rotation month with your program, you can help me identify these characteristics that need improvement, so I can mature and be a stronger resident as I pursue my career in Emergency Medicine.

I consider rotating with your department to be an opportunity that can only help me with my clinical, professional, and interpersonal development, and I look forward to working with you, your staff, and your residents. It is my hope that we can meet personally prior to the beginning of my rotation, and that your program can guide my focus, even for just a month of time, in the direction I will be best served for my future practice in our field. If you have any questions or need to contact me prior to the beginning of my rotation, I can be reached at [insert phone number].

Sincerely Yours,

[Insert Name]"


Mail this as soon as possible, and as far in advance of your rotation as possible. Call two weeks later to confirm receipt and schedule a meeting with the P.D. before your first shift. Ask to be scheduled for two shifts WITH the P.D. near the end of your month for on-the-job feedback. Be in that department every day, and work your ass off. Go out with the residents and know them. Get them to like you.

Most important - have fun.

NinerNiner999,
Thanks for the great advice. Also, thanks for the other replies as well!
OP

 

[BKN]

NinerNiner999,
Thanks for the great advice. Also, thanks for the other replies as well!
OP

Kind of depends on how bad you want this place. You should know that the single most important thing in selection in most PD's eyes is the abililty to evaluate you in their own shop. We've had many good residents who got their position by rotating with us.

In other words, if it's a reach and you really want it, take your shot. Do your very best and you may get what you want.

 

[MountainEM]

my two cents....

1) Contact them if they are one of your first choices and explain that you are especially interested in their program

2) this does not mean no for sure, especially if you will rotate there. Come march, a PD can rank anyone.

I am a resident who is (like many of my co-residents) helping review applications. When reviewing, I have no clue if a med student would be rotating with us in 2 months. It may be an error or it may be that the person reviewing your app did not know you were coming.

cheers

 

[jbar]

I kinda disagree with a lot of the people above. It's still super early in the process, my experience and those of most of my friends is that most places would offer interview spots until they were all gone, and only then would people be getting told they were not going to be able to interview. Like in January or Feb. This seems very early to get a rejection. Maybe it's a mistake. But it seems likely that there is something in your application that that program really doesn't like.

I say why go somewhere to spend a month that is already not showing you the love. Even if you really impress the PD on your interview month, it only takes one person to say no for you to have almost no chance of matching.

I would ask why is this place your top choice? Remember, it's a match, you finding a place that you like as much as them liking you. There were a few places that seemed great on paper until I saw them and realized that I wouldn't fit in well there. If someone rejected me in October I think I would think 1) what jerks and 2) clearly there is something that they dislike about me so much that I probably shouldn't go there.

All that being said, send an email to the PD, so they are at least aware in case this was someone clicking on the wrong button by mistake. And let us know what happens.

 

[Hamhock]

I kinda disagree with a lot of the people above. It's still super early in the process, my experience and those of most of my friends is that most places would offer interview spots until they were all gone, and only then would people be getting told they were not going to be able to interview. Like in January or Feb. This seems very early to get a rejection. Maybe it's a mistake. But it seems likely that there is something in your application that that program really doesn't like.

I say why go somewhere to spend a month that is already not showing you the love. Even if you really impress the PD on your interview month, it only takes one person to say no for you to have almost no chance of matching.

I would ask why is this place your top choice? Remember, it's a match, you finding a place that you like as much as them liking you. There were a few places that seemed great on paper until I saw them and realized that I wouldn't fit in well there. If someone rejected me in October I think I would think 1) what jerks and 2) clearly there is something that they dislike about me so much that I probably shouldn't go there.

All that being said, send an email to the PD, so they are at least aware in case this was someone clicking on the wrong button by mistake. And let us know what happens.

👍

the only problem with this post is that I didn't publish it.

HH

 

[gman33]

This reminds me of getting rejected by a girl.

Maybe if I offer to do her homework for the rest of the year she will change her mind.

Move on.

 

[Groove]

I didn't make it through the entire thread but agree with EM_Rebuilder... too risky, pick another away rotation. There's a chance that you could wow them with your performance and go from the trash can to their top 10 list, but there's a better chance of me scoring with a victoria's secret model and winning 500K at the blackjack table....in the same night.

Good luck.

P.S. I'm not very good at blackjack and the closest I've gotten to a victoria's secret model was about 15 ft....from my t.v. while watching the last Transformers movie.