Repeat Course?? Chance of Med School

[docadr]

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Hi guys. a bit background about me. Currently a sophomore at suffolk majoring at Biology. I will transfer to stony brook as a biochem major starting this fall however will be taking summer classes for my suffolk degree at stony brook. My first year was really bad and due to many things happening at once i screwed up badly. I ended up with few C's in my sciences and 2 W's. I have always dreamt of being a doctor and given the chance i feel i can change things around for myself. before anything else, let me give my stats.
BIO I - C+ , BIO II -C+, CHEM I - C, CHEM II - B+ (started pulling up), Calc I -B, Calc II - first W then B, English lit - first W then B+, PSY - B+, BIO (A & P) I : A, BIO (A &P) II: B+ this semester I'm taking Physics and due to my mean professor im approaching a F 🙁. im really worried. im hoping to raise my gpa tremendously once i transfer to stony but im thinking if i should repeat the courses i did bad on or if I should just focus on doing well on the upper division science classes to raise my gpa. I do not want these classes to kill my chances 🙁. I'm so confused 🙁. im yet to take Micro, biochem, Phy II, orgo chem I n II n more upper level science classes. im rooting for them to back me up. Guys i really need advice n please try not to be rude or tell me to choose another careerpath, if you can help great. if not, just dont bother commenting. im worried. So realistic advice would be appreciated please. i really need help.

 

[docadr]

also to add to tht, my GPA stats at suffolk was first smster 3.3, 2nd smster: 2.5 (my bad semester 🙁 ), 3rd semester: 3.5 and fourth is yet to find out..

 

[optimistic3]

If you can retake them, do it. Not only will it help your GPA if you can get it recalculated, but you will hopefully learn the material better and it will build a good foundation for your upper level classes. Falling behind now may affect your grades later because you didn't quite learn what you should have.

 

[frosted_flake]

Are you applying MD or DO?

 

[docadr]

perry6, I am not applying till the senior year. I am going for MD program. and the worst news is I am getting an F in Phy I at community college and I'm retaking that over the summer at stony brook as well as physics II. I believe I can improve my GPA here on out as I understand why I was struggling. I worked hard but my study methods were not effective. I know what I have to do to increse my GPA and I know I can but the question is if its a lost cause?? Have I lost chances?? Will the C+ in two bio and Chem I and one F in physics I would kill my shot at med school? This has been my dream so I dont want to give up now. Please give me some valuable suggestion. I will be going as biochem major so I have tons of more sciences to take.

 

[docadr]

Thanks optimistic3, some told me that retaking a class is seen as something bad at med school?? like they count both grades so say if I get F on something first and then later an A what does that make my overall grade when med school does the gpa

 

[Boolean]

MD does not do grade forgiveness. DO does. MD takes the average of the two, IIRC. With already quite a few B's and C's along with 2 W's, you may want to consider the DO route…

 

[youmed]

Be open to DO route.

 

[LaceyMD]

MD does not do grade forgiveness. DO does. MD takes the average of the two, IIRC. With already quite a few B's and C's along with 2 W's, you may want to consider the DO route…

One thing I think OP has going is that the classes will be taken at different universities...according to the official AMCAS instructions, taking the same classes at different schools doesn't count as repeating, so the grades will be counted separately, not averaged (unless I'm misinterpreting the instructions). Not quite the same as grade forgiveness, of course, but if OP can pull A's second time around, it's at least a little better than averaging.

 

[Boolean]

One thing I think OP has going is that the classes will be taken at different universities...according to the official AMCAS instructions, taking the same classes at different schools doesn't count as repeating, so the grades will be counted separately, not averaged (unless I'm misinterpreting the instructions). Not quite the same as grade forgiveness, of course, but if OP can pull A's second time around, it's at least a little better than averaging.

Very interesting. Thanks for the insight! Would like some clarification on this, if at all possible. Do you have the AMCAS link? (Regardless, thank you for the insight, this I did not know)

 

[LaceyMD]

Very interesting. Thanks for the insight! Would like some clarification on this, if at all possible. Do you have the AMCAS link? (Regardless, thank you for the insight, this I did not know)

I found it in the official instruction manual (https://www.aamc.org/students/download/182162/data/amcas_instruction_manual.pdf), on page 46:

"The same or similar courses taken at different undergraduate institutions are not considered Repeat courses."

I was kind of surprised when I saw it, because I had assumed that even at different schools they counted as repeats, but this has me thinking otherwise.

 

[LostinLift]

I started with a few W's and C's. Do a post-bacc if you must to raise your GPA and retake courses with C- or below. You can still get MD or DO, have no fear.

 

[docadr]

LaceyMD as much as I feel like jumping up and down seeing your post, it seems that you must have misinterpreted the line. I don't exactly know what it means but I doubt that they wont count the class taking at a different institution as a repeat. They seem more likely to do it. i dont know if I am wrong but I saw this part below on AMCS link that you gave on page 8 and having a doubt about your interpretation. Read it and tell me if you agree
"AMCAS counts grades and hours assigned by the school where the courses were
originally taken, not by any school that might have granted transfer credit. The
only exceptions to this rule are foreign coursework transferred to a U.S. or
Canadian institution and coursework taken through an official study abroad
program."

 

[docadr]

Boolean, I know med school dont do grade forgiveness but perhaps they can see past that and notice that I worked hard to overcome the barrier in my knowledge in tht particular area by repeating it and getting a better grade. I'm open to DO but I really really want to go for MD, since I will be a biochem major at stony, I counted all the science courses I am yet to take. There is about 8 more science classes I am yet to take including ORGO I and II, BIOCHEM I and II, PHY II, MICROBIO, CELL BIO, GENETICS and many other science classes. Also, I am shooting for a high score at MCAT. Also I am taking these classes at a 4 year institution where its much harder. So does it seem Building castles in the air or do you think I am heading to the right direction?? I am trying to find as many ways as possible in order to improve my GPA and make my dream of becoming an MD come true. I dont know if thats being too idealistic because my approaches seem doable to me considered that I push hard and do extremely well now on. What do u think? Would you still say I am being unrealistic hoping to make it to Med school with bunch of Cs, Ws and an F 🙁

 

[docadr]

I started with a few W's and C's. Do a post-bacc if you must to raise your GPA and retake courses with C- or below. You can still get MD or DO, have no fear.

Thanks 🙂 . Replies like this really brings hope. I have kept post bacc as one of my options but here is what I want to ask you. Would you say Post bacc is my only option now? If I repeat all the C+ and F grade (only one in physics due to my incredibly difficult professor 🙁 ) , do well with A's in all the upper division bio and chem classes such as orgo, micro, biochem, physics ii including 4-5 more science classes and score high on MCAT do I have a shot at med school without going for Post Bacc cause I really dont have the money for it 🙁.. Do you think my other options or choices which I wrote above could get me to med school on the first attempt?

 

[docadr]

youmed, I am open to DO but I really would like to go for MD. I would prefer suggestions on how to tackle the MD program? what are my options for MD and if there is still chance that I can turn things around and increase my chances for MD? with due respect to your suggestion, I would appreciate it more if you could give suggestions on MD instead of DO about which I believe I know enough and it is my second option. So first I want to make sure I give the first option a solid try. So Anything you can add or share on getting into MD programs you are more than welcome to do so 🙂

 

[LaceyMD]

LaceyMD as much as I feel like jumping up and down seeing your post, it seems that you must have misinterpreted the line. I don't exactly know what it means but I doubt that they wont count the class taking at a different institution as a repeat. They seem more likely to do it. i dont know if I am wrong but I saw this part below on AMCS link that you gave on page 8 and having a doubt about your interpretation. Read it and tell me if you agree
"AMCAS counts grades and hours assigned by the school where the courses were
originally taken, not by any school that might have granted transfer credit. The
only exceptions to this rule are foreign coursework transferred to a U.S. or
Canadian institution and coursework taken through an official study abroad
program."

I think we may be talking about two different things, or you may be misunderstanding what I originally meant by my post. What you've posted is more about still having to report courses/grades associated with the university where they were originally taken, even if another school has granted transfer credit for them. For example, I transferred after my freshman year, so I will report all my first year courses under the school where I took them, even though the school I transferred to also lists them as transfer credit on that transcript.

I wasn't saying that your grades in the classes you've already taken won't count or that they would get replaced by new grades (only DO does that), just that you might not have to consider them official repeats for AMCAS purposes. The difference is minimal, probably to the point of splitting hairs, as both grades would still be included in your GPA. Just thought it might be worth pointing out that technically they might not be considered repeats under the AMCAS standards. But even still, I think you've got more important things to worry about, like buckling down and bringing up that GPA! 🙂

 

[docadr]

I think we may be talking about two different things, or you may be misunderstanding what I originally meant by my post. What you've posted is more about still having to report courses/grades associated with the university where they were originally taken, even if another school has granted transfer credit for them. For example, I transferred after my freshman year, so I will report all my first year courses under the school where I took them, even though the school I transferred to also lists them as transfer credit on that transcript.

I wasn't saying that your grades in the classes you've already taken won't count or that they would get replaced by new grades (only DO does that), just that you might not have to consider them official repeats for AMCAS purposes. The difference is minimal, probably to the point of splitting hairs, as both grades would still be included in your GPA. Just thought it might be worth pointing out that technically they might not be considered repeats under the AMCAS standards. But even still, I think you've got more important things to worry about, like buckling down and bringing up that GPA! 🙂

maybe I misunderstood. I understood that it doesnt replace GPA but if it doesnt count as repeat there could be an advantage that they wont average both classes but also a disadvantage that they would still count both 🙁. You are right. I do have to bring up tht gpa 🙁. However, I was wondering how do they do the whole GPA thing? I mean since I completed my two years at a community college and will complete two more year or perhaps 3 (hoping to stay an extra year to create a solid application with strong GPA and MCATS and all ECs). So the question is how do they compute the GPA from two institution?? Do they do GPA calculation for each institution separately to determine the overall GPA or do they add GPA from both and determine a combine GPA?? Any idea or thoughts on this would be very helpful 🙂

 

[Boolean]

Boolean, I know med school dont do grade forgiveness but perhaps they can see past that and notice that I worked hard to overcome the barrier in my knowledge in tht particular area by repeating it and getting a better grade. I'm open to DO but I really really want to go for MD, since I will be a biochem major at stony, I counted all the science courses I am yet to take. There is about 8 more science classes I am yet to take including ORGO I and II, BIOCHEM I and II, PHY II, MICROBIO, CELL BIO, GENETICS and many other science classes. Also, I am shooting for a high score at MCAT. Also I am taking these classes at a 4 year institution where its much harder. So does it seem Building castles in the air or do you think I am heading to the right direction?? I am trying to find as many ways as possible in order to improve my GPA and make my dream of becoming an MD come true. I dont know if thats being too idealistic because my approaches seem doable to me considered that I push hard and do extremely well now on. What do u think? Would you still say I am being unrealistic hoping to make it to Med school with bunch of Cs, Ws and an F 🙁

Could you make it? Sure. But you have to remember, you are effectively fighting others for your seat. you are going to have others who don't have the roadbumps you do fighting for your seat. You need to really stand out in order to succeed.

 

[youmed]

What is your sGPA and cGPA right now? You gave us the breakdown for each semester but it would be nice to have the overall sGPA and cGPA.

 

[docadr]

Could you make it? Sure. But you have to remember, you are effectively fighting others for your seat. you are going to have others who don't have the roadbumps you do fighting for your seat. You need to really stand out in order to succeed.

I understand but wouldnt they prefer to have a candidate who fought through difficulties to make it thus far and grew as an individual and learned from their mistakes and boosted up their gpa? is it something to overlook? because I did have good reasons for why my grades suffered so much. My mom sudden sickness, my own sickness, loss of friend and many other problems which affected me very emotionally, detaching me from my primary focus on my grades. How do you believe I can stand out? Any suggestions?

 

[Boolean]

I understand but wouldnt they prefer to have a candidate who fought through difficulties to make it thus far and grew as an individual and learned from their mistakes and boosted up their gpa? is it something to overlook? because I did have good reasons for why my grades suffered so much. My mom sudden sickness, my own sickness, loss of friend and many other problems which affected me very emotionally, detaching me from my primary focus on my grades. How do you believe I can stand out? Any suggestions?

Would you rather have a doctor who performs your surgery without fail the first time around or a doctor who in the last moment successfully completes the surgery? Yes, some schools love a good success story. But they also want physicians they know will be beyond competent at what they do. Could you get in if you scavenge your GPA? Sure. But that said, when it comes down to it, they'll look towards competence and the ability to do things right the first time.

In terms of standing out, if I had to tell you, it wouldn't make you stand out. Think of something you're passionate about. Think real hard. Don't make it something you think you should be passionate about. Make it something you deeply care about regardless of medical school, admissions, or anything of the sort. Now, pursue that. Become the best at it. Make a foundation for it. Show why you think it is important, how it motivates you, how it drives you.

 

[docadr]

What is your sGPA and cGPA right now? You gave us the breakdown for each semester but it would be nice to have the overall sGPA and cGPA.

well if you look at my stats that sums up my college gpa first year and second year is not impressive. Both first and second year overall college gpa at community college is around 2.95 which again is not impressive and my Science GPA would be even worse because I have 2 C+, 1 C, 2 B+, 1 A and 1 F but I am hoping doing better in a four year institution perhaps can increase my chances as well as an upward trend along with competitive MCAT scores. I have plans but if they are totally absurd or unrealistic based on my stats is what I am trying to evaluate here as I do not think I should give up on something I have dreamt of doing for 20 years of my life.

 

[docadr]

Would you rather have a doctor who performs your surgery without fail the first time around or a doctor who in the last moment successfully completes the surgery? Yes, some schools love a good success story. But they also want physicians they know will be beyond competent at what they do. Could you get in if you scavenge your GPA? Sure. But that said, when it comes down to it, they'll look towards competence and the ability to do things right the first time.

In terms of standing out, if I had to tell you, it wouldn't make you stand out. Think of something you're passionate about. Think real hard. Don't make it something you think you should be passionate about. Make it something you deeply care about regardless of medical school, admissions, or anything of the sort. Now, pursue that. Become the best at it. Make a foundation for it. Show why you think it is important, how it motivates you, how it drives you.

I appreciate your advice on standing out and it does strike some ideas as to how to do it. Thanks to you for that 🙂. I understand your point. You make sense about the doctor completing surgery example but unfortunately I cannot go back and undo all the bad grades I have. As I see it I can only improve from here on as there is no going back. SO regardless I am counting towards any positive hope that I have because I believe that if you want to make your dream come true you just have to fight till the end to make it happen. Now i cant guarantee success but I can guarantee hard work, motivation, willingness and passion. I always try to look at the best possible options to make it right instead of worst possible outcomes. its not that I am not aware its just that I do not want to give up after coming a long way in preparing everything. Sure I am struggling but I know why I struggled and I know I can fix that. Sure they dont want surgeons with less competence but think about interns and residents when a doctor first operates on a patient using a new method they might not get it right the first time because they never did it before but does that mean they will not be a good doctor? Next time around they will know where they went wrong, learn from their mistakes and do it right. Can doctors ever guarantee success without trial and error?? Can they ever guarantee success without ever failing or ever attempting it before?? I struggled a lot adjusting to college level of studies first, my study methods were wrong but I understood how to fix it, my personal life was getting in the way, I found a way to take care of that. So wouldnt you say it would rather be very dumb of me to give up after learning so much?

 

[LostinLift]

Thanks 🙂 . Replies like this really brings hope. I have kept post bacc as one of my options but here is what I want to ask you. Would you say Post bacc is my only option now? If I repeat all the C+ and F grade (only one in physics due to my incredibly difficult professor 🙁 ) , do well with A's in all the upper division bio and chem classes such as orgo, micro, biochem, physics ii including 4-5 more science classes and score high on MCAT do I have a shot at med school without going for Post Bacc cause I really dont have the money for it 🙁.. Do you think my other options or choices which I wrote above could get me to med school on the first attempt?

If you can get above a 3.2 (if white) cGPA with an upward trend and score 95% on MCAT you probably won't need a post-bac. Also depends on how good your ECs/letters/essays are. If you're a bit low on GPA you have to make up for it in all other areas or most of them. My only red flag was cGPA.

Also C+ you don't really need to retake, you need to take upper divs.

 

[docadr]

If you can get above a 3.2 (if white) cGPA with an upward trend and score 95% on MCAT you probably won't need a post-bac. Also depends on how good your ECs/letters/essays are. If you're a bit low on GPA you have to make up for it in all other areas or most of them. My only red flag was cGPA.

Also C+ you don't really need to retake, you need to take upper divs.

I'm sorry but I did not understand "if white" part. Is that necessary to get into med school?? So far in community college my cGPA is really low around 2.95 at the end of this semester and same for science gpa but I am hoping that when I transfer to my four year institution and pull up my GPA I may get in without post bacc. would u agree? How was your cGPA if you dont mind sharing. I am most worried about my first year 3Cs and second year 1F which carries heavy weight. Any suggestion??

 

[LostinLift]

I'm sorry but I did not understand "if white" part. Is that necessary to get into med school?? So far in community college my cGPA is really low around 2.95 at the end of this semester and same for science gpa but I am hoping that when I transfer to my four year institution and pull up my GPA I may get in without post bacc. would u agree? How was your cGPA if you dont mind sharing. I am most worried about my first year 3Cs and second year 1F which carries heavy weight. Any suggestion??

The GPA needed will most likely depend on your race, I say as a whitey with around a 3.2, is how it worked for me.

Retake the F class, unless it's a C- don't retake the others.