repeat training (start over)

[Gloria2013]

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I have completed one year internship in a categorical internal medicine program, could I go to match again and start over as a PGY-1 in another internal medicine program?

 

[xrevision]

I imagine that you would have trouble finding funding for that.

 

[gutonc]

I have completed one year internship in a categorical internal medicine program, could I go to match again and start over as a PGY-1 in another internal medicine program?

Sure. But why?

I imagine that you would have trouble finding funding for that.

Not as big of a problem as you might think.

 

[Gloria2013]

I heard that would be violation of ACGME rule, so that we can not repeat one year training even we would like to.

 

[gutonc]

I heard that would be violation of ACGME rule, so that we can not repeat one year training even we would like to.

Did you hear that from a leprechaun?

 

[Smurfette]

I have completed one year internship in a categorical internal medicine program, could I go to match again and start over as a PGY-1 in another internal medicine program?

You can.

You also can look for a PGY 2 spot elsewhere or an advanced spot in a field that requires a transitional year, and should get "credit" for your internship.

If you matched as a categorical IM resident but want to switch programs after a year, it is not a match violation (note this is different from those who matched to both a prelim/transitional year and an advanced spot; those folks need to talk to their advanced program PD if they don't want to move on to their second program to see if they can get waived of their match obligation) and does not violate any ACGME rules (I'm not even sure what ACGME rule you might be thinking of).

 

[Top Gun]

To the OP:

Just curious. Why do you want to repeat PGY 1 in another program?

 

[Gloria2013]

I left my program after completion of internship. It is difficult to find a PGY-2 position, so I may need to re-apply and go through Match again to start over.

 

[Buzz Me]

I left my program after completion of internship. It is difficult to find a PGY-2 position, so I may need to re-apply and go through Match again to start over.

You "left"? You resigned? Were fired? Didn't have your contract renewed?

Were you a categorical or prelim intern? 😕

 

[Gloria2013]

I resigned. It is a long story, but I am looking for either PGY2 or starting over as PGY-1. BTW, I called ACGME, found it is OK to start over as long as the program accept me. Thank God.

 

[tracheatoedoc]

I resigned. It is a long story, but I am looking for either PGY2 or starting over as PGY-1. BTW, I called ACGME, found it is OK to start over as long as the program accept me. Thank God.

Never resign until you have another position lined up. The only unfortunate circumstance that would justify this, is if you are going to be terminated if you don't resign.

 

[swifteagle43]

Never resign until you have another position lined up. The only unfortunate circumstance that would justify this, is if you are going to be terminated if you don't resign.

Well said.

 

[DrSnips]

Never resign until you have another position lined up. The only unfortunate circumstance that would justify this, is if you are going to be terminated if you don't resign.

I call this the Watergate corollary.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I see no advantage to ever resigning under duress. Maybe it gets the pd to write a better letter but probably not. It's really hard to fire someone. I'd make them do it. Once you resign, any due process or discrimination claims are toast. That's why they want you to. I'd fight to the end and make them think I'd sue if I was fired. I wouldn't bother suing but they would be afraid to fire me.

 

[foley12]

I see no advantage to ever resigning under duress. Maybe it gets the pd to write a better letter but probably not. It's really hard to fire someone. I'd make them do it. Once you resign, any due process or discrimination claims are toast. That's why they want you to. I'd fight to the end and make them think I'd sue if I was fired. I wouldn't bother suing but they would be afraid to fire me.

They would probably just decline to renew instead of actually firing. Is there as much due process in non-renewals?.

 

[Bostonredsox]

Maybe no due process changes, but a non renewal still means you completed intern year and can thus get a license. That's better than nothing. Would never resign.

 

[foley12]

IMG usually needs 3 years to get a license. I think the only state where an IMG can be licensed after internship is wisconsin.

 

[deleted116380]

I see no advantage to ever resigning under duress. Maybe it gets the pd to write a better letter but probably not. It's really hard to fire someone. I'd make them do it. Once you resign, any due process or discrimination claims are toast. That's why they want you to. I'd fight to the end and make them think I'd sue if I was fired. I wouldn't bother suing but they would be afraid to fire me.

Supposedly the argument for not resigning when put in that situation is that you will be terminated if not and thus when you apply for a license in the future (if you can ever get one) is you have to check the box "yes" when asked if you've ever been terminated by a hospital/residency program.

That's a red flag a lot would rather not have and they take their chances resigning and reapplying to other programs. When the question is asked, they probably respond with the personalities didn't match/political issues.

Resigning/terminated during PGY1 would suck as you start from square 1 without a license (in the states that allow you to get one with 1 year of work). Not sure how I'd handle the situation and if I'd risk not resigning hoping to stay onboard to finish vs not, but I don't plan on that happening.

 

[michaelrack]

Maybe no due process changes, but a non renewal still means you completed intern year and can thus get a license. That's better than nothing. Would never resign.

Getting paid to show up to 12 months of intern rotations is not the same thing as getting credit for all those rotations. Sometimes those in non-renewal situations will not get credit for the entire intern year.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Most credentialing paperwork asks about either scenario and I think they are viewed the same.

 

[shopsteward]

Anyone asked to resign needs to understand that they are in a negotiation. They will probably end up leaving, one way or another, but there are things they can do.

The first thing is to strengthen their negotiating position as much as possible by compiling a list of all the errors the program has made - there have probably been procedural errors by the program at some point, and there may have been discriminatory treatment (eg discriminatory statements, or others making the same or worse errors which were passed over).

The second thing is to work out what they may be able to get in return for going quietly. The main things are staying until the end of the year, credit for time worked, references, and help in finding another residency.

If they have no experience in negotiation, they need to get someone to help, possibly by doing the negotiating, but possibly just by providing advice in the background.

It may even be possible to negotiate staying on at the same residency. But if this is possible, it is also likely that they could get help to move somewhere else, and a fresh start might be the best thing all round - it is an uncomfortable situation to have to work and train in a place that is known not to want that person there.

 

[michaelrack]

Anyone asked to resign needs to understand that they are in a negotiation. They will probably end up leaving, one way or another, but there are things they can do.

The first thing is to strengthen their negotiating position as much as possible by compiling a list of all the errors the program has made - there have probably been procedural errors by the program at some point, and there may have been discriminatory treatment (eg discriminatory statements, or others making the same or worse errors which were passed over).

The second thing is to work out what they may be able to get in return for going quietly. The main things are staying until the end of the year, credit for time worked, references, and help in finding another residency.

If they have no experience in negotiation, they need to get someone to help, possibly by doing the negotiating, but possibly just by providing advice in the background.

It may even be possible to negotiate staying on at the same residency. But if this is possible, it is also likely that they could get help to move somewhere else, and a fresh start might be the best thing all round - it is an uncomfortable situation to have to work and train in a place that is known not to want that person there.

👍

 

[Arcan57]

Most credentialing paperwork asks about either scenario and I think they are viewed the same.

For an attending, at least in Texas, having credentials revoked at a hospital or resigning under investigation are both reportable to the board. Resigning prior to an investigation is the route most attendings take to avoid having to answer yes to those credentialing questions.