Reporting a coworker for drug abuse

[Redrox]

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[MechEDoc]

No direct personal experience. But knowing how quickly these things can spin out of control and have very toxic implications for the reporter, I'd only feel obligated to report clear cut issues and probably would do so through an attorney (one that specializes in health care issues!) that I hired. I worked with a very dangerous and toxic charge nurse once who was out of control. I clearly laid out the issues to the director and let the director know that it wasn't a workplace issue per se, but a one for the nursing board and would be addressed directly via a law firm. She was put on ice very fast. Since I was on locums I decided it was easier to never return to that site and I left. I wasn't the first or last to have a short stay in that dumpster fire of an ED!

 

[deleted109597]

No good deed goes unpunished

 

[Hamhock]

I would be very careful in reporting suspicions, even those with impeachable evidence. This is very dangerous territory for the accused and the reporter.

I suppose an anonymous report through a lawyer is a good idea. (although I have no experience with this personally)

...but even then, make sure of what outcome you are looking for...and if you say that you just want someone to stop stealing supplies, then I suspect more introspection is needed. And I suggest obtaining more knowledge about how hospitals handle such accusations and abusers.

Perhaps this could be reported anonymously to an ombudsman.

I would even be careful "reporting" it on SDN; which the OP hasn't done, but has come close to doing so.

HH

 

[Birdstrike]

I've never had to report a coworker for drug or alcohol abuse, but isn't there a way to do this anonymously?

Most employment contracts and hospital bylaws say you can demand an immediate drug test of an impaired physician or nurse. I'm not sure why the person who reported it needs to ever be named. An anonymous tip, if credible, could trigger an immediate drug test. It's in all our contracts. There doesn't have to be cause, I don't think.

 

[deleted109597]

Treat it like you would treat abuse. If you don't want them taking care of your family without you present, it's on you. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

 

[Birdstrike]

Treat it like you would treat abuse. If you don't want them taking care of your family without you present, it's on you. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Agree. The fear of getting slapped with a frivolous lawsuit due to reporting someone, is a common fear, however.

Truth is protected speech and by definition is, at least in theory, immune from slander. Although I'm not a lawyer, it's my understanding that to get convicted for slander, the accuser has to prove what you said was not only false, but caused damages. If what you say is true, you should be ok. But like I said, I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

But if you know for a fact someone's coming to work drunk, snorting coke before work, or something similar, report it ffs. They're going to either refuse the drug test or fail it. In either case, you win, they lose. That being said, don't act on rumor, personal animosity or wild guesses. That's just stupid and does put you at risk.

If you haven't yet read or heard about Dr. Duntch, listen to this podcast, now. This doctor was so bad, so pathological, he maimed and killed multiple people, for years. Yet he went through neurosurgery residency, a fellowship, PhD school, research and few years of private practice all because of this exact thing. People were afraid they'd get sued for reporting him. He snorted coke literally during OR cases and was putting pedicle screws straight through people's spinal cords and vertebral arteries, leaving corpses and quads in his wake, before someone overcame the fear of lawsuit harassment and finally reported him. Fellow doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, loved ones let this guy maim innocent people for years and were afraid to report. He was even writing crazed emails admitting he intended on hurting people and that he had become "a killer." Some hero finally stood up, wouldn't quit and took him down, like a pit bull. He also exposed a lot of cowards in the process. Dr Duntsch now sits in prison for life and just lost his last appeal.

Why?

"Cuz lawyers. What about the lawyers?"

And don't get me wrong. I understand the utter havoc trail lawyers can leave in their wake when they want to. But listen to this horrifyingly interesting podcast which is about a true case (or if you don't have the time, google Dr Duntsch):

https://wondery.com/shows/dr-death/


I can't tell you what the right thing to do is, in this case @Redrox. Do what you think is the right think to do. Do what allows you to rest easy at night.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

If this was a nurse I suspected of narc stealing I’d tell my medical director who could then bring it up to the nurse manager.

What I’ve learned is I suck at spotting this as every time another one gets caught my reaction is “him? Really?!?”

Sad part is the ones stealing drugs are often way better than the average nurse I work with.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Agree. The fear of getting slapped with a frivolous lawsuit due to reporting someone, is a common fear, however.

Truth is protected speech and by definition is, at least in theory, immune from slander. Although I'm not a lawyer, it's my understanding that to get convicted for slander, the accuser has to prove what you said was not only false, but caused damages. If what you say is true, you should be ok. But like I said, I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

But if you know for a fact someone's coming to work drunk, snorting coke before work, or something similar, report it ffs. They're going to either refuse the drug test or fail it. In either case, you win, they lose. That being said, don't act on rumor, personal animosity or wild guesses. That's just stupid and does put you at risk.

If you haven't yet read or heard about Dr. Duntch, listen to this podcast, now. This doctor was so bad, so pathological, he maimed and killed multiple people, for years. Yet he went through neurosurgery residency, a fellowship, PhD school, research and few years of private practice all because of this exact thing. People were afraid they'd get sued for reporting him. He snorted coke literally during OR cases and was putting pedicle screws straight through people's spinal cords and vertebral arteries, leaving corpses and quads in his wake, before someone overcame the fear of lawsuit harassment and finally reported him. Fellow doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, loved ones let this guy maim innocent people for years and were afraid to report. He was even writing crazed emails admitting he intended on hurting people and that he had become "a killer." Some hero finally stood up, wouldn't quit and took him down, like a pit bull. He also exposed a lot of cowards in the process. Dr Duntsch now sits in prison for life and just lost his last appeal.

Why?

"Cuz lawyers. What about the lawyers?"

And don't get me wrong. I understand the utter havoc trail lawyers can leave in their wake when they want to. But listen to this horrifyingly interesting podcast which is about a true case (or if you don't have the time, google Dr Duntsch):

https://wondery.com/shows/dr-death/


I can't tell you what the right thing to do is, in this case @Redrox. Do what you think is the right think to do. Do what allows you to rest easy at night.

The podcast was a good one. I listened to it a while ago so I could be wrong, and I'm absolutely not defending this jackass but I don't think I heard anything about him doing blow IN the OR. Immediately before and after, yes. But I don't think it was quite that brazen.

The thing about that podcast that annoyed the hell out of me though is that they never touched on how this guy was allowed to graduate from residency. He reportedly was involved in less than 100 cases during residency. As a neurosurgeon. Which was confirmed by his training program so it isn't like he somehow lied about how many he had done. He performed or assisted in less than 100 cases and was allowed to become an attending neurosurgeon. Why his training program wasn't nailed to the wall for this I have no idea whatsoever, and they completely fail to address this in the podcast.

 

[Birdstrike]

The podcast was a good one. I listened to it a while ago so I could be wrong, and I'm absolutely not defending this jackass but I don't think I heard anything about him doing blow IN the OR. Immediately before and after, yes. But I don't think it was quite that brazen.

Ok, so the mirrors with white power weren't actually in the OR. I guess of doing coke literally in the OR is the bar, he didn't meet it. He still had enough of a frontal lobe remnant to have the courtesy to scrub out of the OR, do his coke out of the site of the OR crew, and came back in, and keep operating. But man, this dude was bad, of the rails, pathologic. He was known to do LSD, and smoke "8 balls" all night before operating, while on days long benders while wearing the same scrub pants with the same hole in the butt area while wearing no underwear, per one witness he worked with. Nurses saw mirrors with cocaine on them in his office. When asked to take a drug test, he would disappear for days, just long enough to be out of the drug detection window for the substances he was using.

And you're right, there's no way his training programs didn't know, in my humble opinion. There's no way. My guess is that they did know and that's exactly why he only did 1/20th the OR cases he should have done. They knew and didn't want him anywhere near any of their patients, in my opinion. CYA all the way.

"Medical personnel who assisted Duntsch during a surgery in July 2012 say he appeared distracted and disoriented, according to one lawsuit. At one point he 'broke scrub' and left the operating room. When he returned, Duntsch appeared to have lost his focus and his assistants questioned whether he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, according to the suit."

 

[BoardingDoc]

Ok, so the mirrors with white power weren't actually in the OR. He still had enough of a frontal lobe remnant to have the courtesy to scrub out of the OR, do his coke out of the site of the OR crew, and came back in, and keep operating. He was known to do LSD, and smoke "8 balls" all night before operating, while on days long benders while wearing the same scrub pants with the same hole in the butt area while wearing no underwear, per one witness he worked with. Nurses saw mirrors with cocaine on them in his office. When asked to take a drug test, he would disappear for days, just long enough to be out of the drug detection window for the substances he was using. I guess of doing coke literally in the OR is the bar, he didn't meet it, but man, this dude was bad, of the rails, pathologic. And you're right, there's no way his training programs didn't know, in my humble opinion. There's no way. My guess is that they did know and that's exactly why he only did 1/20th the OR cases he should have done. They knew and didn't want him anywhere near any of their patients, in my opinion.

"Medical personnel who assisted Duntsch during a surgery in July 2012 say he appeared distracted and disoriented, according to one lawsuit. At one point he 'broke scrub' and left the operating room. When he returned, Duntsch appeared to have lost his focus and his assistants questioned whether he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, according to the suit."

I agree with all of this. To be clear, I don't think there's a particularly significant "bar" met by doing blow in the OR as opposed to outside of it, I just feel that with cases like this it is important to establish the monster that the person is, not who they could be. Hyperbole, when discovered for what it is, only leads one to question if some of the other claims against this person are also inflated. Given how egregious many of the examples you've pointed out are, you can see how that might happen, even though everything you've written here is true.

 

[Birdstrike]

What I’ve learned is I suck at spotting this as every time another one gets caught my reaction is “him? Really?!?”

I know. I'm always the last to know, also.

Sad part is the ones stealing drugs are often way better than the average nurse I work with.

Lol, I know. What's up with that?