Required "palm scan" in order to take EPPP. Anyone else disagree with this?

[Groupthink]

Went to take the PEPPP this weekend and Pearson VUE required that I have a full scan of both of my palms stored in their database.

I requested to know what would happen to this information. They informed me that this information becomes a permanent part of their database and is non-deletable. However, it is not accessible by individual employees of Pearson.

I requested an alternative way of verifying my identity. They told me I could leave and not take the test if I wanted to. I objected and stated that the agreement from ASPPB I signed online said that I would be required to provide 2 forms of identification both with signature, and to have a photo taken of my face, and did not mention anything about a palm scan. I indicated that I did not consent to having my palm scanned to take this exam.

They reiterated that I could leave if I was not willing to have my palm scanned.

This feels completely 1984-esque. When I took the GRE 6 years ago I didn't need to get my palm scanned.

In researching further, I found the following language regarding Pearson VUE's appropriate use of the palm scan:

...use and transmission to the United States of the test taker’s personally identifiable data (including the digital photograph, fingerprint, signature, palm-vein scan, and audio/video recording collected at the test center) and disclosure of such data to Pearson, its service providers, any score recipients the test taker selects, and others as necessary to prevent unlawful activity or as required by law.

So by taking the EPPP, my palm veins are now part of a database that law enforcement can access unrestricted if the legality of my behavior is being questioned.

Am I the only one who finds this ludicrous? Are we just supposed to accept this complete invasion of privacy? I don't even have access to this information, and my palms are a part of my daily life.

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[WisNeuro]

Meh, I'm ok with it. It's essentially the new fingerprint.

 

[PsyDr]

eh, you can't fight city hall. You're gonna be finger printed for most state licensure anyway.

 

[Pragma]

I've been fingerprinted several times now. It's a pretty routine part of the hiring process at a lot of places now - not just government either - there are private hospitals that do it too. What difference does it make if it is a palm print anyhow?

 

[Justanothergrad]

I guess that means I can't commit any felonys and tease the cops by leaving a note that I recently passed the EPPP...

Welp, there goes the weekend.

 

[psych.meout]

Went to take the PEPPP this weekend and Pearson VUE required that I have a full scan of both of my palms stored in their database.

I requested to know what would happen to this information. They informed me that this information becomes a permanent part of their database and is non-deletable. However, it is not accessible by individual employees of Pearson.

I requested an alternative way of verifying my identity. They told me I could leave and not take the test if I wanted to. I objected and stated that the agreement from ASPPB I signed online said that I would be required to provide 2 forms of identification both with signature, and to have a photo taken of my face, and did not mention anything about a palm scan. I indicated that I did not consent to having my palm scanned to take this exam.

They reiterated that I could leave if I was not willing to have my palm scanned.

This feels completely 1984-esque. When I took the GRE 6 years ago I didn't need to get my palm scanned.

In researching further, I found the following language regarding Pearson VUE's appropriate use of the palm scan:




So by taking the EPPP, my palm veins are now part of a database that law enforcement can access unrestricted if the legality of my behavior is being questioned.

Am I the only one who finds this ludicrous? Are we just supposed to accept this complete invasion of privacy? I don't even have access to this information, and my palms are a part of my daily life.

Think about how this sounds to an outside observer.

I guess that means I can't commit any felonys and tease the cops by leaving a note that I recently passed the EPPP...

Welp, there goes the weekend.

Or you could just wear gloves and then burn them after you've fled the scene.

I feel like I've said too much......

 

[JustNoticing]

I think the point is that there is a huge difference between gov't fingerprinting for security or background check purposes and private, for-profit companies doing so as a regular part or their operating procedures.

 

[WisNeuro]

It is a company that provides data to the state licensing boards. If anything, it is probably pressure from the boards regarding test security that prompted the change. So, it's not as easy as separating the two. Either way, if it bothers you, feel free to lobby your state or national psych association/senator/congressperson/etc.

 

[Groupthink]

As a soon-to-be-licensed psychologist, my ethics and guiding principles are:

1. Transparency
2. Informed Consent
3. Control

When I meet with clients, I am transparent about my credentials, my status in supervision, and the services I offer. I obtain their informed consent to participate in treatment with me. I inform them that if they are not seeing improvement, or they have questions, or they believe we are missing the mark, that they can let me know. They have control over their treatment.

All three of these principles, some of which are informed by our Ethics Code, are violated by requiring palm scanners:

1. I was not informed when signing up for the PEPPP or the EPPP that there would be a mandatory palm scan. This process was not transparent, nor was information regarding what would happen with my private data.

2. I did not consent to having my palm scanned. I have plenty of other pieces of identifying information on record, including fingerprints and having previously taken examinations at that testing center. However I was given no alternative option.

3. I have no control over my data. Just as a client has the right to request copies of their records, why do I not have the right to have access to my own palm scan? Why are these scans kept "indefinitely" when psychotherapy records are recommended to be deleted after 7 years?

Where is our internal consistency as a profession? Why is it that we allow our licensing examination to go against the very ethics we hold as a field?

 

[WisNeuro]

Well, taking the EPPP is not medical or mental healthcare treatment. I don't expect them to treat us as patients, since we are clearly not in this situation, and different ethics and laws apply to the situation. We can still be internally consistent without expecting that everything we do in our profession generalizes to every other situation in our lives.

Also, the Pearson EPPP website clearly states about the palm scan. Not reading something is not the same as not being informed. It's like when I taught college and students would argue against things that were clearly stated in the syllabus. They would say it wasn't fair that I didn't expressly bring their attention to it.

As I said, feel free to lobby it. If enough people are up in arms, maybe they'll do something. Or, you could always join up with that Modern conspiracy theory guy. He's always up to rail against the EPPP.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

C’mon all....I don’t understand why you don't just implicitly trust our gov’t and for-profit businesses with an increasingly higher amount of personal information that can be indexed, sold, etc. it’s not like we have a laundry list of examples where the gov’t and/or businesses have mishandled or outright took advantage of collected information.

 

[psych.meout]

C’mon all....I don’t understand why you don't just implicitly trust our gov’t and for-profit businesses with an increasingly higher amount of personal information that can be indexed, sold, etc. it’s not like we have a laundry list of examples where the gov’t and/or businesses have mishandled or outright took advantage of collected information.

A palm print seems like a tiny drop in the bucket compared to all the data people freely give up via social media and smarthphones.

 

[psychrat]

Went to take the PEPPP this weekend and Pearson VUE required that I have a full scan of both of my palms stored in their database.

I requested to know what would happen to this information. They informed me that this information becomes a permanent part of their database and is non-deletable. However, it is not accessible by individual employees of Pearson.

I requested an alternative way of verifying my identity. They told me I could leave and not take the test if I wanted to. I objected and stated that the agreement from ASPPB I signed online said that I would be required to provide 2 forms of identification both with signature, and to have a photo taken of my face, and did not mention anything about a palm scan. I indicated that I did not consent to having my palm scanned to take this exam.

They reiterated that I could leave if I was not willing to have my palm scanned.

This feels completely 1984-esque. When I took the GRE 6 years ago I didn't need to get my palm scanned.

In researching further, I found the following language regarding Pearson VUE's appropriate use of the palm scan:




So by taking the EPPP, my palm veins are now part of a database that law enforcement can access unrestricted if the legality of my behavior is being questioned.

Am I the only one who finds this ludicrous? Are we just supposed to accept this complete invasion of privacy? I don't even have access to this information, and my palms are a part of my daily life.

It didn't bother me, but I guess I did not give it that much thought. I was finger printed for several positions before so did not think much of it.

 

[foreverbull]

I've had to accept a lot of evils to be in this field, and that one wasn't very high on the list; I lumped it in with the fingerprinting. At the top of my list: I have to give an "address of record" to my state board that is required and PUBLIC information on their website if you look me up as a licensed psychologist, which irked me much more than the scan of my palms. Luckily I have a private practice to list as the address of record, but if I didn't, my HOME address would be publicly available to all who look me up on CA board's website (think about the potential for stalking and/or threats)! I just looked myself up on the site with name only and the address is freely available to all.

Why this is required is beyond me. No address of mine should be public other than what I make public via my own business listing.

 

[PsyDr]

Has zero to do with ethics and everything to do with the law. Licensure is a privilege, not a right. Same as driving.

 

[deleted106747]

I'm troubled by the palm scan, and troubled that my insurance company asked me to take a "voice print." I dislike this info being in various places by privately held companies. I have now been hacked in three separate databases. My address is online due to the fact that I am a registered voter, and my request to have it removed per their posted policy that they remove this info if asked was ignored.

 

[hamstergang]

How can a palm scan be used maliciously?

 

[WisNeuro]

How can a palm scan be used maliciously?

Ways, man. Ways.