res 42...killed !

[MSmentor018]

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Members don't see this ad.

have you guys heard of this? read about it in the EM forums yesterday

Look what happened to our resident DO's in PA…..

.In July 2010 the current Pennsylvania Board of Osteopathic Medicine determined to cease allowing AOA-approval and require that candidates complete an AOA-accredited OGME-1year to gain a Pennsylvania license..
.For more information, I would encourage you to read:

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2010. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2010); Vol. 110 (No. 3): pg 150-159.

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2008); Vol. 108 (No 3): pg 127-137.

Approval of ACGME Training as an AOA-Approved Internship: History and Review of Current Data. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2006); Vol. 106 (No. 12): pg 708-713..

 

[JustPlainBill]

have you guys heard of this? read about it in the EM forums yesterday

Look what happened to our resident DO's in PA…..

.In July 2010 the current Pennsylvania Board of Osteopathic Medicine determined to cease allowing AOA-approval and require that candidates complete an AOA-accredited OGME-1year to gain a Pennsylvania license..
.For more information, I would encourage you to read: .

.Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2010. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2010); Vol. 110 (No. 3): pg 150-159..

.Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2008); Vol. 108 (No 3): pg 127-137..

.Approval of ACGME Training as an AOA-Approved Internship: History and Review of Current Data. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2006); Vol. 106 (No. 12): pg 708-713..

Obviously took Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People".....sheesh....

 

[goooooober]

have you guys heard of this? read about it in the EM forums yesterday

Look what happened to our resident DO's in PA…..

.In July 2010 the current Pennsylvania Board of Osteopathic Medicine determined to cease allowing AOA-approval and require that candidates complete an AOA-accredited OGME-1year to gain a Pennsylvania license..
.For more information, I would encourage you to read:

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2010. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2010); Vol. 110 (No. 3): pg 150-159.

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2008); Vol. 108 (No 3): pg 127-137.

Approval of ACGME Training as an AOA-Approved Internship: History and Review of Current Data. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2006); Vol. 106 (No. 12): pg 708-713..

Alas, another stupid step by a small group of DOs, another giant leap backwards for DO-kind. Just one more example of AOA DOs hard at work to "earn" those cushy dollars that would be better spent burned and sprinkled on my poo poo before being flushed down the toilet (keep them membership dollars rolling). And I love how the leaders of AOA, Snap Crackle and Pop, approve all this ****.

Ultimately this translates to less well-qualified physicians that will apply for training and practice in PA. This "5-state" bull**** rule needs to be dropped STAT, instead of evolving.

Oh well.

 

[hawkeye pierce]

The AOA does not control state licensing. Vote.

 

[DrWBD]

The AOA does not control state licensing. Vote.

Vote for (or against) whom exactly? State medical boards can do whatever they please, and AFAIK they aren't very democratic. Keep in mind that osteopathic medical boards are controlled by the old-guard DOs whose priority is maintaining the osteopathic GME in their state. Encouraging students to bypass traditional rotating internships with the Resolution 42 exemption runs counter to their mission.

Although I am not a Pennsylvania resident I am going to write a letter to the osteopathic medical board in PA to express my point of view on the issue. I will also forward a copy to the state senators. I encourage others here to to the same. I feel that bypassing the AOA on this issue is an abuse of power by the osteopathic medical board that will, in the long run, be detrimental for osteopathic medicine in that state.

 

[goooooober]

The AOA does not control state licensing. Vote.

I did not mean to imply that they did so directly. Only that their education-unfriendly policies and support of Still-obsessed brethren promotes the groundwork on which such ridiculous policies can be established without as much as a sneez or cough of a fight.

 

[hawkeye pierce]

The state medical boards are usually appointed appointed by the govenor pennsylvania for example http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...ic_medicine/12517/consumer_information/572061

 

[hawkeye pierce]

Also, note that the AOA is the one that put res 42 in place to approve your training. They were in a sense fighting these kind of laws.

 

[goooooober]

The state medical boards are usually appointed appointed by the govenor pennsylvania for example http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...ic_medicine/12517/consumer_information/572061

Just like we don't get up one morning and vote any individual into the office of the presidency, the people the governor appoints are supported by special interest which puts money, effort, and influence behind them to hold such positions. That is how the AOA and many such large organizations exert their influence and accomplish their agendas, through their candidates. The AOA simply wants DOs to do DO internships and residencies, although they are unwilling to spend the money and effort to create adequate number of quality positions for our graduates.

As far as the now former resolution 42, that is not what I consider a fight. That is called a temporary bypass, a loophole, that was intended to accommodate those that have no options due to their training (matching ACGME residency or etc.). A fight is explicitly stating that such policies hinder the education of DOs and prevent a lot of good DOs from practicing in the state of PA and then to put as much money, effort, and influence needed to repeal such backwards and ridiculous policies.

That is simply not the track record of the AOA. The education and progress of DOs is not on the agenda of the AOA.

 

[hawkeye pierce]

It this case the AOA was the one who tried to create a workaround through res 42.

 

[Rollo]

If you read Tom Corbett's (the new PA governor) policy on health care, under "Supporting the Healthcare Delivery System"....he states this:

Only about two of every five physicians who completed their graduate medical education in Pennsylvania remained in 10 the state to practice, ranking Pennsylvania 35th among all the states. As Governor, Tom Corbett will work with the healthcare community to develop incentives and programs for physicians to practice in Pennsylvania and to retain medical students and residents trained here. He will encourage the expansion of all levels of the healthcare workforce to improve the availability of physicians, nurse practitioners and other caregivers. Tom Corbett also will direct the state to reduce the unnecessary barriers and time delay licensing that impede entry to the healthcare field by certified and trained professionals.

From: http://www.tomcorbettforgovernor.com/issues/corbett-healthcare-policy.pdf

So, no worries.

 

[goooooober]

If you read Tom Corbett's (the new PA governor) policy on health care, under "Supporting the Healthcare Delivery System"....he states this:



From: http://www.tomcorbettforgovernor.com/issues/corbett-healthcare-policy.pdf

So, no worries.

I hope so. I hope that at least the governor is more open-minded than our representatives. Unfortunately, if they do not allow DOs who are ACGME trained to practice in PA, than there really is not much the governor can do, unless this whole policy is changed.

 

[DrWBD]

If you read Tom Corbett's (the new PA governor) policy on health care, under "Supporting the Healthcare Delivery System"....he states this:



From: http://www.tomcorbettforgovernor.com/issues/corbett-healthcare-policy.pdf

So, no worries.

Thank you for posting that. I will incorporate it into the letter I have written.

 

[Terpskins99]

have you guys heard of this? read about it in the EM forums yesterday

Look what happened to our resident DO's in PA…..

.In July 2010 the current Pennsylvania Board of Osteopathic Medicine determined to cease allowing AOA-approval and require that candidates complete an AOA-accredited OGME-1year to gain a Pennsylvania license..
.For more information, I would encourage you to read:

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2010. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2010); Vol. 110 (No. 3): pg 150-159.

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2008); Vol. 108 (No 3): pg 127-137.

Approval of ACGME Training as an AOA-Approved Internship: History and Review of Current Data. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, (2006); Vol. 106 (No. 12): pg 708-713..

Do you have a link to the thread in the EM forum you are referring to and/or a link to an official notice from the PA Board of Osteopathic Medicine? Thanks.

 

[MSmentor018]

Do you have a link to the thread in the EM forum you are referring to and/or a link to an official notice from the PA Board of Osteopathic Medicine? Thanks.

sorry it was in this forum that I read it

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=742762&highlight=OGME-1year

 

[JaggerPlate]

If you read Tom Corbett's (the new PA governor) policy on health care, under "Supporting the Healthcare Delivery System"....he states this:



From: http://www.tomcorbettforgovernor.com/issues/corbett-healthcare-policy.pdf

So, no worries.

Glad he mentions NPs while discussing 'breaking down the unnecessary barriers.' 🙄

 

[NeuroDocDO]

I just got of the phone with one of the PA board administrators and they told me that at this time res 42 is still accepted but the board is considering dropping it however it will not happen sooner than 2 years from now. so if you think you want to practice in pa, apply for the license now asap since once you have it you will be able to renew it even if the res 42 is dropped. You just have to play the game.

 

[Rollo]

I just got of the phone with one of the PA board administrators and they told me that at this time res 42 is still accepted but the board is considering dropping it however it will not happen sooner than 2 years from now. so if you think you want to practice in pa, apply for the license now asap since once you have it you will be able to renew it even if the res 42 is dropped. You just have to play the game.

Yeah but what about the class of new residents who will be going through their PGY1 training in the 2 years or so when the resolution will be dropped?

I honestly cannot imagine this ever taking effect simply because it would reduce the physician shortage, which no state wants now or 2-3 years down the road, by not allowing specific segment of DO graduates to obtain a license.

 

[MSmentor018]

I just got of the phone with one of the PA board administrators and they told me that at this time res 42 is still accepted but the board is considering dropping it however it will not happen sooner than 2 years from now. so if you think you want to practice in pa, apply for the license now asap since once you have it you will be able to renew it even if the res 42 is dropped. You just have to play the game.

thanks for checking...I could never get a straight answer from them on who to talk to

 

[DrWBD]

I just got of the phone with one of the PA board administrators and they told me that at this time res 42 is still accepted but the board is considering dropping it however it will not happen sooner than 2 years from now. so if you think you want to practice in pa, apply for the license now asap since once you have it you will be able to renew it even if the res 42 is dropped. You just have to play the game.

It appears that the Pennsylvania osteopathic board is selectively applying the "requirement" for AOA internship training. This is problematic for 2 reasons:

1. They become the arbiters of whether your training is "worthy" as opposed to the AOA or ACGME, whose job it is to accredit residency training.
2. They are discouraging people off the bat from pursuing licensure in PA who do not want to deal with issues in getting licensed.

For these reasons, the requirement needs to be formally removed from their licensure requirements.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

It appears that the Pennsylvania osteopathic board is selectively applying the "requirement" for AOA internship training.

Make sure to slip in one or two of these badboys to help them make their decision easier.

 

[wook]

It appears that the Pennsylvania osteopathic board is selectively applying the "requirement" for AOA internship training. This is problematic for 2 reasons:

1. They become the arbiters of whether your training is "worthy" as opposed to the AOA or ACGME, whose job it is to accredit residency training.
2. They are discouraging people off the bat from pursuing licensure in PA who do not want to deal with issues in getting licensed.

For these reasons, the requirement needs to be formally removed from their licensure requirements.

Agreed and well stated.



Wook

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Vote for (or against) whom exactly? State medical boards can do whatever they please, and AFAIK they aren't very democratic. Keep in mind that osteopathic medical boards are controlled by the old-guard DOs whose priority is maintaining the osteopathic GME in their state. Encouraging students to bypass traditional rotating internships with the Resolution 42 exemption runs counter to their mission.

Although I am not a Pennsylvania resident I am going to write a letter to the osteopathic medical board in PA to express my point of view on the issue. I will also forward a copy to the state senators. I encourage others here to to the same. I feel that bypassing the AOA on this issue is an abuse of power by the osteopathic medical board that will, in the long run, be detrimental for osteopathic medicine in that state.

Honestly, the way this kind of stuff damages the profession is by discouraging bright, freshly minted DOs with good options elsewhere from doing any GME in the states that do stuff like this. There is seriously no way I'd ever decide to do a residency in PA with this sort of garbage going on.

Also, I've been reading what you've been saying about traditional rotating internships and the osteopathic profession and it's true - osteopathic schools seem to push internships really, really hard. Just about every clinical lecturer we've had makes some snarky comment about "when you guys are interns..."

 

[MSmentor018]

Just about every clinical lecturer we've had makes some snarky comment about "when you guys are interns..."

we'll all be interns, per se, but definitely not doing an internship!

 

[TeamZissou]

Alas, another stupid step by a small group of DOs, another giant leap backwards for DO-kind. Just one more example of AOA DOs hard at work to "earn" those cushy dollars that would be better spent burned and sprinkled on my poo poo before being flushed down the toilet (keep them membership dollars rolling). And I love how the leaders of AOA, Snap Crackle and Pop, approve all this ****.

Ultimately this translates to less well-qualified physicians that will apply for training and practice in PA. This "5-state" bull**** rule needs to be dropped STAT, instead of evolving.

Oh well.

Yup......

 

[Trevelyan]

2. They are discouraging people off the bat from pursuing licensure in PA who do not want to deal with issues in getting licensed.

This is exactly what happened in my case. I am from PA, but because of this I did not apply to any residency programs in PA.

 

[group_theory]

This is exactly what happened in my case. I am from PA, but because of this I did not apply to any residency programs in PA.

Not understanding the logic here.

You can still be a resident or fellow and get a training license in pennsylvania even if you don't do an AOA-intern year or get resolution 42 (you just can't get your unrestricted license).

Why would avoiding Pennsylvania for residency affect this? You can still be a resident/fellow - you just can't practice after you are done with training unless you take those extra steps (either Resolution 42 - or if the state board doesn't recognize Resolution 42, then AOA internship)

Michigan requires a completed AOA intern year (or completed Resolution 42-approved ACGME PGY1 year) in order to be eligible for residency. Not so with Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania has some great AOA as well as ACGME programs - avoiding the state for residency/fellowship due to this issue is non sequitur.

However, if Pennsylvania doesn't recognize Resolution 42 - it's a dumb move and will disallow many otherwise qualified and talented DOs from practicing in the state (especially since some part of the states have physician shortages)

 

[wook]

Not understanding the logic here.

You can still be a resident or fellow and get a training license in pennsylvania even if you don't do an AOA-intern year or get resolution 42 (you just can't get your unrestricted license).

Why would avoiding Pennsylvania for residency affect this? You can still be a resident/fellow - you just can't practice after you are done with training unless you take those extra steps (either Resolution 42 - or if the state board doesn't recognize Resolution 42, then AOA internship)

Michigan requires a completed AOA intern year (or completed Resolution 42-approved ACGME PGY1 year) in order to be eligible for residency. Not so with Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania has some great AOA as well as ACGME programs - avoiding the state for residency/fellowship due to this issue is non sequitur.

However, if Pennsylvania doesn't recognize Resolution 42 - it's a dumb move and will disallow many otherwise qualified and talented DOs from practicing in the state (especially since some part of the states have physician shortages)

I did not follow through for an EMS fellowship in PA because of this issue. I had applied and actually spoken several times with the fellowship director. He identified that my getting licensed would be a challenge. I spent a month trying to find out how to work around this, but when was unable to get an answer, did not follow through. The director for the site was very helpful and very willing to work with me, but neither of us could get an answer on how to surmount this issue. Interestingly, I was able to get a waiver through resolution 42, but it was not until several months after I had accepted a fellowship elsewhere.

Thanks.


Wook

 

[Trevelyan]

Not understanding the logic here.

You can still be a resident or fellow and get a training license in pennsylvania even if you don't do an AOA-intern year or get resolution 42 (you just can't get your unrestricted license).

Why would avoiding Pennsylvania for residency affect this? You can still be a resident/fellow - you just can't practice after you are done with training unless you take those extra steps (either Resolution 42 - or if the state board doesn't recognize Resolution 42, then AOA internship)

Michigan requires a completed AOA intern year (or completed Resolution 42-approved ACGME PGY1 year) in order to be eligible for residency. Not so with Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania has some great AOA as well as ACGME programs - avoiding the state for residency/fellowship due to this issue is non sequitur.

However, if Pennsylvania doesn't recognize Resolution 42 - it's a dumb move and will disallow many otherwise qualified and talented DOs from practicing in the state (especially since some part of the states have physician shortages)

Because I want working where I trained at to be a possibility and I don't want all of the hoop jumping to do so.

 

[TeamZissou]

Because I want working where I trained at to be a possibility and I don't want all of the hoop jumping to do so.

What? You mean our governing body won't let us have a standardized national process to our graduate training? Well that sucks🙄

 

[wook]

...

 

[wook]

What? You mean our governing body won't let us have a standardized national process to our graduate training? Well that sucks🙄

An interesting discussion point.

Licensing is a state not national governed process. Our governing body has no control over this. This gets into states rights over federal. It would be great if licensing were uniform from state to state. It would make licensing a moot point during disasters when people want to respond.

With that being said, I would suspect the national body does have influence over the licensing process for respective states.

Thanks.


Wook

 

[TeamZissou]

An interesting discussion point.

Licensing is a state not national governed process. Our governing body has no control over this. This gets into states rights over federal. It would be great if licensing were uniform from state to state. It would make licensing a moot point during disasters when people want to respond.

With that being said, I would suspect the national body does have influence over the licensing process for respective states.

Thanks.


Wook

Well written post. You did what I did without the use of sarcasm.

+1👍

 

[group_theory]

I did not follow through for an EMS fellowship in PA because of this issue. I had applied and actually spoken several times with the fellowship director. He identified that my getting licensed would be a challenge. I spent a month trying to find out how to work around this, but when was unable to get an answer, did not follow through. The director for the site was very helpful and very willing to work with me, but neither of us could get an answer on how to surmount this issue. Interestingly, I was able to get a waiver through resolution 42, but it was not until several months after I had accepted a fellowship elsewhere.

Thanks.


Wook

Good point. Some fellowships require their fellows to have unrestricted licenses so that they can work as "attendings" part time when they are not doing their fellowship rotations/requirements. Plus in the field of EM, it's pretty hard to practice without having a DEA, which requires having an unrestricted license.

Institutions apply for the Pennsylvania training licenses on your behalf. The only requirement is that you are a graduate of an accredited medical school (or ECFMG certified) and that you are sponsored by an accredited residency/fellowship.

Not sure if your EMS fellowship was a formal recognized fellowship or if a training license was even acceptable (since you can't get a DEA with a training license, you can't personally bill medicare/medicaid/insurance with a training license, or sign certain forms that require a signature of someone with unrestricted license)

Getting Resolution 42 approval from the AOA takes time. But once you get approval from the AOA, as of right now it doesn't take long for the Pennsylvania State Osteopathic Board to grant a license (much faster than some states which takes month).

Because I want working where I trained at to be a possibility and I don't want all of the hoop jumping to do so.

True - although you can do your residency everywhere, a lot of residents stay within the general vicinity of where they train after they graduate from residency. It's easier to make connections, go on job interviews during residency, etc. You also know the area better, know the inside scoop of the various practices, etc.

But there's nothing to stop a DO student from doing an ACGME Ophthamology residency in Pennsyvania, NOT pursue Resolution 42, and then move out of the state upon completion of residency. Hopefully the state osteopathic board will realize that by refusing to recognize Resolution 42, then the above situation applies to ALL DOs in ACGME residency, and not just those who opt out of Resolution 42. This will include all the DOs in ACGME Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, OB/GYN, General Surgery, Emergency Medicine, etc.

 

[DOmergency]

So if I do a ACGME emergency residency in PA, will I be able to moonlight as a third year without resolution 42?

Also, do the other states MI, FL, OK have resolution 42 equivalents?

 

[wook]

So if I do a ACGME emergency residency in PA, will I be able to moonlight as a third year without resolution 42?

Also, do the other states MI, FL, OK have resolution 42 equivalents?

If you are moonlighting at an institution that is affiliated with your residency, you may not. If you would be moonlighting at an insitution without that affiliation, you would need to have an unrestricted license as well as a DEA license.

Thanks.


Wook