research and pharmacy

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How possible is it to have a research career while also doing some kind of clinical pharmacy work?

 

[MrMeowphers]

quick answer: yes

That's what I'm hoping to do with my current PhD/MS after graduating from Pharm School with the PharmD.

However, your research capabilities will be handicapped without a PhD. A PharmD will only garner certain areas of research (basic scientific research might be difficult to get funding for with just a PharmD).

PhD --> Research degree
PharmD --> Professional degree

 

[Monalyce]

quick answer: yes

However, your research capabilities will be handicapped without a PhD. A PharmD will only garner certain areas of research (basic scientific research might be difficult to get funding for with just a PharmD).

PhD --> Research degree
PharmD --> Professional degree

disagree with the idea that research handicap exists for PharmDs without PhDs. Evidence: any pharmacy school has several PharmDs that do research. Usually it is more clinical, but research nonetheless.

 

[MrMeowphers]

disagree with the idea that research handicap exists for PharmDs without PhDs. Evidence: any pharmacy school has several PharmDs that do research. Usually it is more clinical, but research nonetheless.

If you read specifically what I posted earlier, I mentioned that a PharmD will only garner CERTAIN AREAS of research.

And by your own explanation, you mentioned they are usually only doing clinical research; hence, a handicap.

As I also mentioned earlier, basic scientific research is usually dominated by PhD's and a minority of MD's who do want to venture into those parts.

Evidence: Try searching for NIH funding for PharmD research on any basic science field. It's virtually non-existant.

 

[UES Girl]

Evidence: Try searching for NIH funding for PharmD research on any basic science field. It's virtually non-existant.

Must you always tool around ?


OP, use a search function and search for this topic to get broader perspective since it has already been answered extensively. My perception, is that the role Pharm.Ds in research is extensively growing, especially in the geographical areas with higher concentration of biotech and pharma, such as Bay Area, CA. If you are interested in research as a career, consider applying to UCSF SOP that has specific research orinted pathway concentration for your Pharm.D degree or consider pursuing a Rutgers research fellowship after you graduate.

 

[MrMeowphers]

I'm curious what you mean by tool around?

The person posting before-me was attempting to correct what I said, yet by doing so they only further validated what I mentioned. 🙄

 

[Monalyce]

Evidence: The CEO of St. Jude runs a lab which performs basic science, as well as clinical, research. William Evans is a PharmD. The head of the Pharmaceutical Sciences department, a division of Basic Sciences, is Mary Relling, PharmD.

Titles like this:
"A mouse model for glucocorticoid-induced osteonecrosis: Effect of a steroid holiday"
"Transporter-Mediated Protection against Thiopurine-Induced Hematopoietic Toxicity" Funding: Research Support, N.I.H., Extramural.
The list goes on.

And this one:
"Effect of allopurinol versus urate oxidase on methotrexate pharmacokinetics in children with newly diagnosed acute lymphoblastic leukemia" While more clinical in nature, is funded by: Research Support, N.I.H., Extramural.

Sure sounds like basic science to me...and from personal experience working under these pharmacists and others, I can tell you that they trained in both basic science and clinical research.

My point is that the PharmD does not exclude you, or handicap you, in the area of research if you don't let it.

 

[MrMeowphers]

Like I said before, it's virtually non-existent.

There will always be a few exemptions to the rule, but what I was trying to point out is that it is very few and far-between.

Although I acknowledge you make a good point that you shouldn't let just having a PharmD "handicap" you.

If the OP was asking to do both research and clinical pharmacy, his chances will dramatically increase if he has both degrees.

The same can be said since there are a good number of just MD's doing clinical and basic science research in power-house universities, yet there are more MD/PhD's doing research (which is partially due to the fact that it is easier to get funding if you have a research related training and certifications/degrees).

 

[UES Girl]

Like I said before, it's virtually non-existent.

There will always be a few exemptions to the rule, but what I was trying to point out is that it is very few and far-between.

Although I acknowledge you make a good point that you shouldn't let just having a PharmD "handicap" you.

If the OP was asking to do both research and clinical pharmacy, his chances will dramatically increase if he has both degrees.

The same can be said since there are a good number of just MD's doing clinical and basic science research in power-house universities, yet there are more MD/PhD's doing research (which is partially due to the fact that it is easier to get funding if you have a research related training and certifications/degrees).

OP said, is it possible to have a research career ? He didn't say , is it possible to have a career in a basic scientific research ?

Clinical research = still research and like I pointed out, based on me my perception and my experience at our school, it seems quite possible, even without a Ph.D, as long as you pursue postdoc or a fellowship after.

I'm already familiar with your simplistic " must have Ph.D to conduct research " idea since you manage to interwine into conversation quite often, which btw constitutes tooling, or being a tool. 🙄


OP: if your curiosity for career in science is deep and scientific career interests you this much - then being able to use your internet surfing skills and do a search is a must. 😉 All your questions have been answered numerously, including the one about a combined degree in the new thread you just started. I know for a fact because I've done this search myself several times when I was applying to schools.

I applied to 12 schools that according to their website offered dual degree programs. I can tell you right away that I wasn't immediately applying to the dual degree programs, but to pharmacy programs. I applied to pharmacy programs first because I figured it would be easier to get into pharmacy program and because I thought adcoms would questions my desire to go into pharmacy if I was so interested in research.

My experience at our school is that while on the website it says that the program exists - in reality it doesn't. You have to apply to a Ph.D separately and there is no guarantee you'll even be accepted. In terms of funding, I don't know how it works, but what I learned that your pharmacy education loan will be deferred for up to 10 years utnill you complete the Ph.D if you choose to go that route as long as you stay in the Ph.D program full time.

If you are eager to learn more about which schools offer the program and more about the student experiences, then invest the time to look it up. Like I said, this has been discussed in detail and I remember even writing about this topic several times.

 

[jung1]

PharmDs can also carve territory in translational research in addition to clinical research. It's true, pharmacy schools currently get 1% or so of NIH funding but mostly because industry typically does the funding and that few faculty apply for NIH funding in the first place.

 

[MrMeowphers]

OP said, is it possible to have a research career ? He didn't say , is it possible to have a career in a basic scientific research ?

Clinical research = still research and like I pointed out, based on me my perception and my experience at our school, it seems quite possible, even without a Ph.D, as long as you pursue postdoc or a fellowship after.

I'm already familiar with your simplistic " must have Ph.D to conduct research " idea since you manage to interwine into conversation quite often, which btw constitutes tooling, or being a tool. 🙄

It's not overtly simplistic as you make it seem. The real funny thing is that you're doing this even though you have none of the credentials and have not gone through the formal process. All you can say is based on your OUTWARDLY VIEWING opinion based on your own academic institution.

Your opinion in the matter is the equivalent value of another member not in pharmacy school claiming that all pharmacists simply count pills with a Popsicle stick and place them into tan bottles. How is this the same? Because those individuals have not gone through Pharmacy school nor do they have sufficient pharmacy work related experiences.

So before you resort to calling individuals a "tool", look at yourself first.

Secondly, although you could go and do a post-doctorate like you explain, the likely hood that you'll land the post-doctorate position of your choice will be somewhat diminished because for the past 4 years in pharmacy school you conducted 0-years of research. A post-doctorate is normally done in order to further hone your independent and critical thinking skills. Graduate school helps you become a different type of research oriented thinker compared to the style of professional school.

I'd love to see you present your previous research experience and describe your publications in-front of the members of the new lab in which you are hoping to gain this "post-doctoratal" position. Oh wait! You have none!

 

[UES Girl]

It's not overtly simplistic as you make it seem. The real funny thing is that you're doing this even though you have none of the credentials and have not gone through the formal process. All you can say is based on your OUTWARDLY VIEWING opinion based on your own academic institution.

Your opinion in the matter is the equivalent value of another member not in pharmacy school claiming that all pharmacists simply count pills with a Popsicle stick and place them into tan bottles. How is this the same? Because those individuals have not gone through Pharmacy school nor do they have sufficient pharmacy work related experiences.

So before you resort to calling individuals a "tool", look at yourself first.

Secondly, although you could go and do a post-doctorate like you explain, the likely hood that you'll land the post-doctorate position of your choice will be somewhat diminished because for the past 4 years in pharmacy school you conducted 0-years of research. A post-doctorate is normally done in order to further hone your independent and critical thinking skills. Graduate school helps you become a different type of research oriented thinker compared to the style of professional school.

I'd love to see you present your previous research experience and describe your publications in-front of the members of the new lab in which you are hoping to gain this "post-doctoratal" position. Oh wait! You have none!

Exhibit A: tool.

 

[MrMeowphers]

Exhibit A: tool.

This will be my last post in this meaningless banter.

Firstly, the "you" in the last sentence of my post wasn't directed in any shape/thought/form to you. It was a "you" that was a broad word to define individuals seeking a post-doctorate after completing just Pharmacy School (which has 0 research, unless you decide to volunteer your summer). You make it seem like getting a "post-doctorate" is incredibly easy. I've been in the meetings where other newly graduated PhD students have to again present their dissertation research to their hopeful new PI and lab mates. It can be as high as 10-15 people fighting for 1 post-doctoral position. There are many qualified candidates out there who have boat loads of research experience compared to a newly graduated PharmD student.

Secondly, I find there is a gaping hole in maturity level between you and me. You quickly resort to calling me a "tool" and also a "douche" (I read your post before you decided to delete it completely). If I disagree with someone on this board, I might call their statement plain ignorant or false, but I never resort to your petty name-calling as a "tool" or "douche." If someone is extremely bored, they can verify this by checking all of my previous posts. So apparently your patience is so thin that you can call me a tool when we are simply disagreeing. Congrats on winning the coveted prize of lackluster class.

 

[desmoulins45179]

It was a "you" that was a broad word to define individuals seeking a post-doctorate after completing just Pharmacy School (which has 0 research, unless you decide to volunteer your summer).

Not necessarily. There are some schools that do encourage research. I know Michigan requires ALL students to do a research project. I also interviewed at the University of Iowa and I got the impression that they encourage research even if that may not be the direction you will ultimately go in. I told them I was more interested in clinical residencies and he told me that with my background (bachelor's n pharmacology and toxicology but no major research experience) I should look into working in one of their research labs. one of the students said that she worked in a chemistry lab and that others worked in pharmaceutical sciences labs. I believe that one of their required IPPEs is research based. Those are just two examples but there are other schools offer research opportunities, including rotations in research. Some schools offer research tracks to pursue. To the OP, if you want to do research, it's up to you. There are opportunities out there but it's up to you to go after them.

 

[UES Girl]

This will be my last post in this meaningless banter.

Firstly, the "you" in the last sentence of my post wasn't directed in any shape/thought/form to you. It was a "you" that was a broad word to define individuals seeking a post-doctorate after completing just Pharmacy School (which has 0 research, unless you decide to volunteer your summer). You make it seem like getting a "post-doctorate" is incredibly easy. I've been in the meetings where other newly graduated PhD students have to again present their dissertation research to their hopeful new PI and lab mates. It can be as high as 10-15 people fighting for 1 post-doctoral position. There are many qualified candidates out there who have boat loads of research experience compared to a newly graduated PharmD student.

Secondly, I find there is a gaping hole in maturity level between you and me. You quickly resort to calling me a "tool" and also a "douche" (I read your post before you decided to delete it completely). If I disagree with someone on this board, I might call their statement plain ignorant or false, but I never resort to your petty name-calling as a "tool" or "douche." If someone is extremely bored, they can verify this by checking all of my previous posts. So apparently your patience is so thin that you can call me a tool when we are simply disagreeing. Congrats on winning the coveted prize of lackluster class.

I call you a tool because your demeanor is unkind and even while giving advice you manage to come off arrogant and narcissistic, not encouraging and helpful. Just go back and read some of your very own posts in a few threads – as if they are filled with enthusiastic optimism and eagerness to help. 🤣I am younger, far less educated and more immature, but at least my people skills/communication skills are not lacking. 😉

 

[MrMeowphers]

So this post made previous before your ignorant statement was arrogant and unhelpful:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=706579 ?

You assume that thanks to your multiple posts, that you're even remotely helpful. Enjoy being a prick.

 

[jung1]

This awesome. I feels like I'm living in Detroit again =)

IMO, since there is shortage of research-trained pharmaceutical scientists, opportunities are abound if you get involved. I'm sure it's possible to research and do clinical work similar to what some MD/PhDs do.

 

[UES Girl]

So this post made previous before your ignorant statement was arrogant and unhelpful:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=706579 ?

You assume that thanks to your multiple posts, that you're even remotely helpful. Enjoy being a prick.

That post was made AFTER your initial douchbaggery in this thread and after I posted my experience as applying to Pharm.D/Ph.D schools and pointed out your depressing pessimism in this thread. Overall, your history has been that you love to post wildly rude remarks and it has been quite consistent.

Since you are clueless, I'm remotely helpful simply for a mere fact that I DEDICATED HOURS of my personal time answering 4-5 UCSF related pms nearly every other day, sometimes as much as 2-3 hours per day. I even went as far as to meet a few SDNers and mentor them in person. Slightly more helpful than writing one copy cat post, don't ya think ?

Wasn't that supposed to be your last post in this thread, anyways ?

 

[iwannabadentist]

my cousin is interested in doing research in pharmaceutical sciences/pharmacalogy and working in r&d in the future. she is currently getting her bachelors in pharmseutical sciences but what is the best possible course of further education and what sort of schools offer it? any help is appreciated!

 

[chemguy79]

That post was made AFTER your initial douchbaggery in this thread and after I posted my experience as applying to Pharm.D/Ph.D schools and pointed out your depressing pessimism in this thread. Overall, your history has been that you love to post wildly rude remarks and it has been quite consistent.

Since you are clueless, I'm remotely helpful simply for a mere fact that I DEDICATED HOURS of my personal time answering 4-5 UCSF related pms nearly every other day, sometimes as much as 2-3 hours per day. I even went as far as to meet a few SDNers and mentor them in person. Slightly more helpful than writing one copy cat post, don't ya think ?

Wasn't that supposed to be your last post in this thread, anyways ?

Game, Set, Match, cheburashka!