Research Career in Clinical Psychology

[Psych-Researcher]

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Hi All,

I wanted to know if it is possible for a clinical psychologist to work solely as a clinical researcher, without ever really needing to be a practitioner. Can they even perform effective research if they lack practitioner experience?

Thanks,
J.

 

[cara susanna]

Even research-oriented clinical psychologists have to be clinically trained. Once someone is done with that, though, it is possible to have a career only in research as a clinical psychologist without seeing clients.

 

[chman]

To echo the above, I think it is quite possible, if not normal to be a researcher only. To get through school and get licensed you will gain some clinical experience. Whether it is enough to gain proper insight to formulate research questions depends on a number of factors (eg what kind of research you plan to do, etc.).

I recently had a conversation with a researcher who is retiring and I told him that ideally I would like to research and see patients. He kind of smirked at me and told me that "the day of being a triple threat (practice, research, teach), are over." And I should chose one to excel at. That is, of course, only one person's opinion, but given his credibility I give it a lot of weight.

 

[WisNeuro]

I recently had a conversation with a researcher who is retiring and I told him that ideally I would like to research and see patients. He kind of smirked at me and told me that "the day of being a triple threat (practice, research, teach), are over." And I should chose one to excel at. That is, of course, only one person's opinion, but given his credibility I give it a lot of weight.

I think this guy just doesn't have much perspective. At many VA's, being a triple threat is pretty much the norm. And, considering that this is the largest employer of psychologists, I imagine there are many people who fit into a similar mold as myself and colleagues.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think this guy just doesn't have much perspective. At many VA's, being a triple threat is pretty much the norm. And, considering that this is the largest employer of psychologists, I imagine there are many people who fit into a similar mold as myself and colleagues.

I wonder if that person meant that the days of being compensated for being a triple threat (rather than doing research and prepping for teaching opportunities on the side and in your spare time) are over, perhaps...?

But even then, I think the opportunities are still there, it's just a matter of potentially needing to secure consultative-type roles rather than finding an "all in one" job that'll pay you to do all three.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

But even then, I think the opportunities are still there, it's just a matter of potentially needing to secure consultative-type roles rather than finding an "all in one" job that'll pay you to do all three.

I think the issue is that most jobs will pay you to do one or two, but often not three….at least to the same level as "back in the good ol' days." I'm fine being a double threat, though I'm looking to be a triple…with the third being golf.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think the issue is that most jobs will pay you to do one or two, but often not three….at least to the same level as "back in the good ol' days." I'm fine being a double threat, though I'm looking to be a triple…with the third being golf.

Haha yep. One could say that many VA positions, for example, do pay their clinicians to teach because they allow for adequate time to prep talks, supervise students, etc. And I know of a handful of VA and AMC folks who have both assigned research and clinical duties. But the norm certainly seems to have become 100% one or the other (research vs. clinical), or at least a heavy bias in one direction, in many hospital settings.

 

[chman]

I think this guy just doesn't have much perspective. At many VA's, being a triple threat is pretty much the norm. And, considering that this is the largest employer of psychologists, I imagine there are many people who fit into a similar mold as myself and colleagues.

Fair enough.. For what it's worth, he was the head of psychiatry at a major research university hospital, and the chief editor of some major journals.

I work for a doctor that does research and does some clinical work at the VA. He is an MD though. He doesn't teach, however (at least that I'm aware of, and certainly not with any regularity). I'm sure it is quite possible to research and see patients at a VA, if not in the range of normal. I don't pretend to know everything about it, but it seems that every psychology professor at universities I have run in to are strictly researchers. Most of them did clinical work at some time, and some see patients for specific studies, but I'm not aware of any that run their own lab, teach, and have a private practice or see patients with regularity. Something has to give in that equation.

 

[chman]

I wonder if that person meant that the days of being compensated for being a triple threat (rather than doing research and prepping for teaching opportunities on the side and in your spare time) are over, perhaps...?

But even then, I think the opportunities are still there, it's just a matter of potentially needing to secure consultative-type roles rather than finding an "all in one" job that'll pay you to do all three.

He was, at least partially, talking in terms of compensation.

 

[erg923]

Most professors of psychology are not at Large R1 or R2 universities. This balance is much more realistic when one is at a smaller school.

 

[erg923]

The "pick one and excel at it" is actually the complete opposite of how any good clinical scientist/psychologist should be thinking, both during grad school and after. It flies in the face of the integration of research and practice and how the two certainly are not mutually exclusive.

If this person is a psychiatrist rather than a psychologist trained in the boulder or clinical scientist model, then I can see that attitude developing more easily, as research is still seen as a "separate thing" in medical education.

 

[WisNeuro]

Fair enough.. For what it's worth, he was the head of psychiatry at a major research university hospital, and the chief editor of some major journals.

I work for a doctor that does research and does some clinical work at the VA. He is an MD though. He doesn't teach, however (at least that I'm aware of, and certainly not with any regularity). I'm sure it is quite possible to research and see patients at a VA, if not in the range of normal. I don't pretend to know everything about it, but it seems that every psychology professor at universities I have run in to are strictly researchers. Most of them did clinical work at some time, and some see patients for specific studies, but I'm not aware of any that run their own lab, teach, and have a private practice or see patients with regularity. Something has to give in that equation.

Oh yeah, at the university level, it is way too hard to do all three for most. The amount of time and effort you need to spend to get tenured pretty much takes a clinical focus out of the equation, beyond supervision perhaps. Also, psychiatry doesn't always have a good grasp at what psychologists actually do in many places.

 

[chman]

The "pick one and excel at it" is actually the complete opposite of how any good clinical scientist/psychologist should be thinking, both during grad school and after. It flies in the face of the integration of research and practice and how the two certainly are not mutually exclusive.
.

I agree that this at least *should* be the case. Whether it will be in the future of practice IDK. I feel like our educational model at least is drawing more and more of a distinction between the two (practice and research) as time goes on. It will be interesting to see how it pans out, and I honestly hope for continued integration (that sounds the most productive and "fun" to me).

 

[Dame4Change]

I'm hoping to do all three, and I think it's possible if one's dedicated enough!

 

[WisNeuro]

It really isn't that hard to do. Really just depends on where you are. Like I said, pretty much the norm in some VA's.