Research Residencies

[bd4727]

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I have a few questions about Research Residencies, hopefully some of you on here may know:

1. How do I get access to the research residency forum?

2. Does anyone know of a good site that sort of explains how these programs work in general (not school specific websites)?

3. Is anyone here applying to them? Any insight into pros/cons of doing them and their application aspects (competitiveness, things they look for in particular, etc)

Thanks

 

[gbwillner]

I have a few questions about Research Residencies, hopefully some of you on here may know:

1. How do I get access to the research residency forum?

2. Does anyone know of a good site that sort of explains how these programs work in general (not school specific websites)?

3. Is anyone here applying to them? Any insight into pros/cons of doing them and their application aspects (competitiveness, things they look for in particular, etc)

Thanks

1. Didn't know there was such a forum.
2. There really aren't enough of these programs in existence to have "general" websites dedicated to them IMHO... although I could be wrong. Many residency programs allow you to do research or have dedicated research time (like a month), but very few have specific research tracks. They are also basically limited to IM, with rare exceptions. Note there is a difference between a program that is "academic" and one with a designated research track.

Good luck.

 

[Vader]

It would help to know what field you are interested in...

Check out the Molecular Medicine program at UCSF:
http://medicine.ucsf.edu/molmed/index.html

When you apply for residency in IM, peds, path or derm it guarantees you fellowship and research funding. A great lead-in for a K award or equivalent grant.

There are a number of residency programs in neurology that offer a research track (formally or informally), often around 6 months of dedicated time. This is often done in lieu of subspecialty elective time. Examples are UCSF's "flexible residency", Stanford's "research track", Partners (MGH/BWH/Harvard) does this informally, Columbia has an NIH Neuroscience Training Grant. Several residency programs are in the process of applying for the new NINDS R25 award which is a grant designed to fund resident research.

Hope this helps!

 

[RxnMan]

Google ABIM Research Pathway. Path and Peds have similar research residency programs with their professional boards. These all garauntee fellowship placement + protected research time + accelerated clinical time.

 

[Neuronix]

When you apply for residency in IM, peds, path or derm it guarantees you fellowship and research funding. A great lead-in for a K award or equivalent grant.

I'm curious why you would want to be locked into a fellowship early on. Also, what sort of research funding are we talking about? Is it just your salary (with call and clinical conference strings attached) or is there money to do research with as well?

Many academic Radiology programs take 1 or so research residents per year. They typically provides for a "year" of research time and keep your resident salary going. There are some external sources you can apply for funding in both Radiology and Rad Onc through the American Board of Radiology, though there seems to be little pressure to do so if your program is supporting your salary regardless. Of course the ABR programs ask you to devote 1.5 years or more to research, and few in Radiology seem to be willing to give THAT much time...

 

[RxnMan]

I'm curious why you would want to be locked into a fellowship early on. Also, what sort of research funding are we talking about? Is it just your salary (with call and clinical conference strings attached) or is there money to do research with as well?...

If you knew you wanted to be a cardiologist early on, then it would be to your advantage to be locked in early on. Otherwise, you'de have to Match to IM, and then Match again to Cards.

You get treated as a resident (in terms of salary) all the way through. Research-related funding comes from the department or where ever you're working.

 

[Neuronix]

If you knew you wanted to be a cardiologist early on, then it would be to your advantage to be locked in early on. Otherwise, you'de have to Match to IM, and then Match again to Cards.

It doesn't seem as an AMG MD/PhD resident it should be much issue to match into a subspecialty. I just don't see the benefit of being "guaranteed" (read: locked into) a fellowship. What if the strong faculty in the department where you do your residency leave in the years before you do fellowship? What if you end up needing to move for some reason (like a spouse or something)? I don't see the benefit unless you're fast tracking and shaving off a year. Though, if they're giving you an A&I spot 😉

You get treated as a resident (in terms of salary) all the way through. Research-related funding comes from the department or where ever you're working.

I'm not interested in extra money for myself personally, though if I ended up in the NYC or SF area maybe I would be 😉. I'm curious what is typically involved in "research funding" (as Vader stated) above and beyond your typical salary.

 

[bd4727]

So I apologize for not knowing what I am really talking about, but from what I read it seems if you do the IM research pathway for instance, you would do 2 years IM and 3 years research for a total of 5 years in this program.

I guess what I am really wondering about is if it is worth the extra 2 years instead of just doing a regular IM residency? I suppose this is similar to doing a 2 year post-doc type research fellowship somewhere after your residency, but I wonder:

1. how common that is

2. what are the advantages? I mean I can obviously guess but are people having trouble getting faculty positions without going back to research for two years before applying?

3. are you committed to this program once you are in or can you "drop" the research part and just finish the IM in the normal time

4. are the 2 research years contiguous?

5. will I ever have a real job?

 

[Gyric]

Guaranteed fellowship is huge. At places like BWH, UCSF etc everyone is a stellar MD/PhD and if you are IM everyone wants that GI/cards/heme-onc etc fellowship. Most MD/PhDs will lock in the fellowship, bail on the post-doc and come out with great opportunities as a clinical fellow trained at a top institution. If they want you in academics, but know you have amazing options in private practice, you will get a better deal ... don't fast-track, the chair owns you then. If in the end you want to go back to the lab, then make them pay you a living wage, clinical instructor at least.

Neuronix, I am curious what percentage of radiologists are R01 funded and how many in that group sign out cases? I have met alot of MD/PhDs who went into radiology and none of them are planning on a basic science career, so it is interesting to see the specialty grow in popularity with young mudphuds.

 

[Neuronix]

Neuronix, I am curious what percentage of radiologists are R01 funded

I hate to dodge your question, but I have no idea. I wouldn't even know where to find that kind of data. Could you tell me what percentage of Internal Medicine physicians are R01 funded?

and how many in that group sign out cases?

I know a few personally who are roughly 50/50 research, but again, how common that is nationally I have no idea. I'm sure it's a small minority of all Radiologists (shouldn't most clinicians be clinicians?), but it happens at some of the academic places. On the flip side, I know several people going into IM who have no desire to continue doing academics, but use the academic handle as a way to get a top residency/fellowship.

 

[RxnMan]

...What if the strong faculty in the department where you do your residency leave in the years before you do fellowship?...

Is there some loss of flexibility? Sure. But if you read the ABIM site, you see that you shave a year off of the IM residency and get into the lab in PGY3. If I were to interview for one of thee positions, I would speak with several prospective PIs and ask them about their plans.

...What if you end up needing to move for some reason (like a spouse or something)?...

I believe that the likelihood of increased family stress due to moving again (because you matched in another city) is much more common than needing to move due to family emergency. Again, we can talk about a "loss of flexibility," but on the other hand, moving three times in six years blows. Doing so with family is worse.

...I don't see the benefit unless you're fast tracking and shaving off a year...

With the IM+research, you do shave off a year. With the other programs, you get a fellowship spot, you being fellowship training earlier, and you get research time.

 

[RxnMan]

...2. what are the advantages? I mean I can obviously guess but are people having trouble getting faculty positions without going back to research for two years before applying?...

Early research time. Contiguous research time with a mentor. Faculty track.

...3. are you committed to this program once you are in or can you "drop" the research part and just finish the IM in the normal time...

The ABIM site states you can drop the research part, but your IM residency goes back to 3 years.

...4. are the 2 research years contiguous?...

Dependent on the program. Some get you a 10 months research time b/f PGY3. Some start research time in PGY3.

...Most MD/PhDs will lock in the fellowship, bail on the post-doc and come out with great opportunities as a clinical fellow trained at a top institution...

I think that's why some institutions want you to do the research part b/f the fellowship...

 

[Neuronix]

I believe that the likelihood of increased family stress due to moving again (because you matched in another city) is much more common than needing to move due to family emergency. Again, we can talk about a "loss of flexibility," but on the other hand, moving three times in six years blows. Doing so with family is worse.

My issue has consistantly been that the women I love have to go elsewhere and I am fixed in one place because I am in a long program. So I hope you'll excuse my fear of "loss of flexibility". Thanks for answering some of my questions though.

 

[Vader]

From UCSF's Molecular Medicine Program Web Site:

The Program

The MMTP offers the following to those admitted to its membership:
1. Guaranteed admission to the UCSF subspecialty fellowship of the applicant’s choice (contingent upon satisfactory completion of the internship). This applies even to those fellows who do not know which field they plan to enter at the commencement of the residency.
2. The ability to short-track into that subspecialty fellowship; and
3. Support for two years of laboratory research as a fellow, secured via preferential access to departmental and divisional training grant funds.

In addition, each fellow is assigned an Advisor whose research interests are matched to those of the fellow. The advisor’s role is to help the fellow select a research mentor, advise about important career decisions (job searches, extramural funding, etc) and offer assistance with navigating the complexities of a career in both science and medicine. The Program also sponsors a weekly conference on disease-related science for members still in clinical residency or fellowship. This series includes research presentations by UCSF physician-scientists in both basic and clinical departments, as well as a journal club highlighting recent published advances in disease-related science.

 

[Vader]

I'm curious why you would want to be locked into a fellowship early on. Also, what sort of research funding are we talking about? Is it just your salary (with call and clinical conference strings attached) or is there money to do research with as well?

Many academic Radiology programs take 1 or so research residents per year. They typically provides for a "year" of research time and keep your resident salary going. There are some external sources you can apply for funding in both Radiology and Rad Onc through the American Board of Radiology, though there seems to be little pressure to do so if your program is supporting your salary regardless. Of course the ABR programs ask you to devote 1.5 years or more to research, and few in Radiology seem to be willing to give THAT much time...

Yes, that is a potential downside... however, the positives for most individuals planning to pursue physician-scientist careers make this an excellent pathway toward launching their careers.

It is also a great deal for PIs interested in having highly motivated, intelligent, highly trained fellows in their labs, in that they don't have to find extra sources of funding to pay the trainee.