Research with and assisting your father

[SaudiMed]

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Hi Guys,

I'm a 1st year medical student from Saudi Arabia's best Medical School , no haughtiness intended (6 years left...yea,shiz ,eh?). I'm working really hard to get to a top residency program in Canada or the US.

I was wondering if it's questionable to do research with one's immediate relative? My father is a widely recognized researcher in his specialty, and is a well known surgeon in the middle east as well (senior officer of an international surgical professional organization). It only makes sense for me to shadow him/do research with him right? Would it look questionable?
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Do med school summer gigs (Research Assistant, Medical Assistant, Volunteering at hospitals,etc.)help in residency applications?

 

[CatFactorial]

Find someone else to shadow.

 

[DrMidlife]

Home country details don't matter. Generally nobody in the US is going to have time to figure out whether your home assets have competitive value, not even your evaluated transcripts. It doesn't matter if your dad finds a cure for Parkinson's, that research won't carry weight with a US residency PD until it's redone in a US or possibly Euro/Japan lab. You're playing an entirely different game than US/Canada med students. You need epic USMLE board scores unless you want to do family medicine, and you need contacts at residency programs in the US. You won't find those contacts in this forum.

So, get obsessed with finding Saudis or Kuwaitis (keep in mind that the average American can find neither on a map nor describe their differences) who have done what you want to do, and get them to mentor you. Get obsessed with the details of how to get visiting student electives at US schools that have taken IMG residents from the ME. If your dad can help you get a summer+ research gig in the US, that would be good as well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[SaudiMed]

Thanks for the input, guys.

more than 75% of his research is published in American & Canadian journals.
Do foreign medical graduates have a better shot at landing a spot in an orthopaedic residency program in Canada?

 

[ProtossCarrier]

if you want to do ortho you may want to stick with your home country.

 

[SaudiMed]

if you want to do ortho you may want to stick with your home country.

Why is that so?

 

[cpants]

Why is that so?

Ortho is extremely difficult to match to even for US grads. It is almost impossible from a foreign medical school. Something like general surgery, while still a long shot, may be a more realistic goal for someone in your shoes.

As far as your original question goes, I would avoid working with your father. Surely as a famous Saudi scientist he must have a huge contact network. Get him to set you up with a famous colleague and you avoid the nepotism issue.

 

[SaudiMed]

Ortho is extremely difficult to match to even for US grads. It is almost impossible from a foreign medical school. Something like general surgery, while still a long shot, may be a more realistic goal for someone in your shoes.

As far as your original question goes, I would avoid working with your father. Surely as a famous Saudi scientist he must have a huge contact network. Get him to set you up with a famous colleague and you avoid the nepotism issue.

Yeah, I've been told about how difficult it is! They said the same thing about applying as a foreign student to UPenn-Wharton w/o APs/IB/A-levels, but I still got accepted (turned it down for King Abdulaziz University-Faculty of Medicine...Mom did not want me to live on my own so far away just yet..🙁 we have this thing about moms in Islam..."Heaven is under the feet of your mothers" i.e. dont piss her off!). I hope I get lucky this time around too!

What if I apply to lesser Orthopaedic Residency Programs? Something Rural? Midwest/other unattractive location? Do I have a better chance at those programs or will it be just as difficult?




is it legally permissable for me to volunteer at a hospital in Canada or do I have to be a Citizen/PR?

 

[DrMidlife]

You're not listening.

US biz schools have exactly nothing to do with US/Canada med schools or US/Canada residencies.

I suggest that you should save your questions for people who can help you. This forum can't help you. Find people who have done what you want to do: get into a competitive North American residency without a North American medical education. Such people are not in this forum.

Best of luck to you.

 

[SaudiMed]

I assumed they were equally difficult. I guess my assumption is incorrect. Thanks.

 

[Gabby]

You're not listening.

US biz schools have exactly nothing to do with US/Canada med schools or US/Canada residencies.

I suggest that you should save your questions for people who can help you. This forum can't help you. Find people who have done what you want to do: get into a competitive North American residency without a North American medical education. Such people are not in this forum.

Best of luck to you.

I think you're a little off. There are some people here who did medical school in other countries and if the OP wants to ask, let him ask. If no one answers, then that means that no one knows. No reason for him to save his questions when there is a chance it can be answered.

 

[cpants]

This page from the NRMP data might give you a better idea about what specialties are realistic for a foreign trained medical grad who wants to do residency in the US. As you can see, only 8 foreign medical grads matched to ortho this year, representing 0.2% of the matched candidates in that field.

 

[DrMidlife]

I think you're a little off. There are some people here who did medical school in other countries and if the OP wants to ask, let him ask. If no one answers, then that means that no one knows. No reason for him to save his questions when there is a chance it can be answered.

On SDN there's an ortho residency forum, an international discussion forum, and a Middle East forum. All of which constantly hash out how to match.

Note that the OP is effectively a college freshman. Med school starts after high school outside US/Canada. Are you offering the "chance of an answer" in the allo forum to the vast hordes of pre-allo freshmen who want to match ortho? Pretty sure that won't go well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[ProtossCarrier]

keep in mind those foreign graduates that matched are likely already prominent in their field.

 

[Law2Doc]

I assumed they were equally difficult. I guess my assumption is incorrect. Thanks.

Apples and oranges. Business school actually fulfills it's mission better by bringing in international types to allow for global networking. And seats aren't as limited at the undergrad level. Medicine sometimes sees folks without regional ties as detracting from their mission, which typically focuses on the likelihood that they will serve the healthcare needs of the local community. Plus ortho isn't school level training, it's a residency, something you do after college and after med school, so really two steps past college.

 

[Gabby]

On SDN there's an ortho residency forum, an international discussion forum, and a Middle East forum. All of which constantly hash out how to match.

How hard would it have been to tell him that instead of just sending him on his way?

Note that the OP is effectively a college freshman. Med school starts after high school outside US/Canada. Are you offering the "chance of an answer" in the allo forum to the vast hordes of pre-allo freshmen who want to match ortho? Pretty sure that won't go well.

I don't judge things with black and white lenses. If a pre-med wanted to know, I'd direct him/her to pre-allo to ask that question. In this situation, this person is obviously new to the forum and was asking what was an innocent question. What's the big deal to let him and ask and if anyone knows the answer, they can share?

 

[Murphy Brown]

You're not listening.

US biz schools have exactly nothing to do with US/Canada med schools or US/Canada residencies.

I suggest that you should save your questions for people who can help you. This forum can't help you. Find people who have done what you want to do: get into a competitive North American residency without a North American medical education. Such people are not in this forum

Forgive me but why are you moderating the forum and speaking for the rest of us? There are people who post here from Israel, from Mexico, from the Middle East, and elsewhere. I've seen their posts and talked to them myself. If you don't know the answer to the OP's question, then maybe it's best for you to say nothing at all.

 

[SaudiMed]

Apples and oranges. Business school actually fulfills it's mission better by bringing in international types to allow for global networking. And seats aren't as limited at the undergrad level. Medicine sometimes sees folks without regional ties as detracting from their mission, which typically focuses on the likelihood that they will serve the healthcare needs of the local community. Plus ortho isn't school level training, it's a residency, something you do after college and after med school, so really two steps past college.

I see 🙂

I understand that ortho is postgrad, but it's my next step (Medicine is taught at an undergraduate level in Saudi Arabia), that is why I'm asking

 

[SaudiMed]

keep in mind those foreign graduates that matched are likely already prominent in their field.

Thanks for your input ProtossCarrier. Do you mind expanding on that point? I would sincerely appreciate it. Thanks 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

I see 🙂

I understand that ortho is postgrad, but it's my next step (Medicine is taught at an undergraduate level in Saudi Arabia), that is why I'm asking

It's what you would ideally like to be your next step. It probably isn't your actual next step, is what many of us are telling you. A US ortho residency is something tough to snag coming from US med schools. From a foreign school, it's that much harder. So you need to have everything in your credentials look amazing. Amazing scores, lots of US clinical experience, lots of good references from folks you worked with who are unrelated to you, and so on. It's not just a work for a month with my dad so I can list it on the application kind of process.

You probably want to talk to alumni from your program who landed in the states and get their take on how realistic your plan is.