Residency already?

[Textuality]

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So what happens if I discover after 3 years, that I love a specialty that is too competitive for me to realistically match in? Is that a common situation to be in? Do people just pick something easier and go with it on the fly?

I think I'm just getting a little paranoid that I'll get "trapped" into a residency that I'm not that into. :/

 

[anon-y-mouse]

So what happens if I discover after 3 years, that I love a specialty that is too competitive for me to realistically match in? Is that a common situation to be in? Do people just pick something easier and go with it on the fly?

I think I'm just getting a little paranoid that I'll get "trapped" into a residency that I'm not that into. :/

Are you joking? Have you taken a look at the match list for Penn in the past few years? Get off SDN and read your netter or something. Perhaps this is the answer you were looking for though.

In all seriousness, if there is a will, there is a way. Derm => people may do an IM residency, then derm. Plastics => general surgery, then plastics fellowship.

You (fortunately) have a clean slate and can outgun your fellow classmates to get that specialty you want, so perhaps you should take advantage of that opportunity now!!

 

[Dr Roboto]

Your best option is to work hard as if you're competing for a derm or plastics residency. Honor everything. Do research. Get AOA. If it turns out you indeed do want derm or plastics, you'll be relatively competitive. If not, you'll at least be prepared to land a great residency in a field of your choice. Win-win situation.

 

[Textuality]

Are you joking? Have you taken a look at the match list for Penn in the past few years? Get off SDN and read your netter or something. Perhaps this is the answer you were looking for though.

In all seriousness, if there is a will, there is a way. Derm => people may do an IM residency, then derm. Plastics => general surgery, then plastics fellowship.

You (fortunately) have a clean slate and can outgun your fellow classmates to get that specialty you want, so perhaps you should take advantage of that opportunity now!!

Yeah...do people actually read Atlases? Haha. To be honest, I'm not a great "gunner". And given the awesome caliber of my classmates, I'm not sure I can put in enough work to make myself academically notable without going crazy. I mean, hard work does make a difference, but I feel like at some point, there starts to be an exponential jump where you have to work lots harder to just improve a little. And for me, I think that point might be earlier than some of my classmates. I don't doubt that I can pass or that I can do decently on Step 1 (I do have a relatively good work ethic for studying for major concepts etc), but I honestly don't know if I can pull off AOA given the competition here. Although it might be more that I'm not sure I'm willing to give up my current lifestyle (which admittedly is pretty "balanced" and low stress, I study everyday, but still watch tv, play my games, plan my wedding, go out when I'm not sick like today..arg)

Maybe I just have to figure out if getting into Rads or a competitive field is worth being a hermit for the next 4 years, because that's what it sounds like it takes?

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah...do people actually read Atlases? Haha. To be honest, I'm not a great "gunner". And given the awesome caliber of my classmates, I'm not sure I can put in enough work to make myself academically notable without going crazy. I mean, hard work does make a difference, but I feel like at some point, there starts to be an exponential jump where you have to work lots harder to just improve a little. And for me, I think that point might be earlier than some of my classmates. I don't doubt that I can pass or that I can do decently on Step 1 (since I did well enough on MCAT), but I honestly don't know if I can pull off AOA given the competition here. Although it might be more that I'm not sure I'm willing to give up my current lifestyle (which admittedly is pretty chill and low stress, I watch tv, play my games, plan my wedding, go out when I'm not sick like today..arg)

Maybe I just have to figure out if getting into Rads or a competitive field is worth being a hermit for the next 4 years, because that's what it sounds like it takes?

Um, the best judge of how you will do on Step 1 is how you do in your first two years of med school, not your MCAT. The strongest correlation is med school, not a prior standardized test. So if you are conceding that most of your peers are going to work harder and do better than you in school, you are likely to see them do better on that test as well. The single most effective way to do well on Step 1 is to do well in med school. Period. Don't expect to cram at the end and catch up on the stuff you should have been doing for two years and do as well.

People who don't have school as a high priority don't do well in med school, period. Sure, you can still plan your wedding and do many of your prior activities each week when you have time, but you have to put school first and foremost and squeeze the rest in, not the other way round. You have to bear in mind that med school is only 4 years, but your career will be 40+. So it's either live your lifestyle now and have decades of regrets, or bust your butt now and have plenty of lifestyle options later, and for a much longer stint. Not a hard decision, really, if you step back and look at it objectively. But something you really should have mulled before you got to med school.

Med school isn't easy, and isn't meant to be. They are trying to pack an incredible amount of info into your head in a very short period of time. It isn't like college where you have a ton of free time and can still expect to cram and do well. Many folks in med school who coasted to A's in college with modest effort get hit with med school like a mack truck and end up struggling, in big part because they aren't willing to make the changes to their life required. Put med school first, your wedding planning second, and all that other stuff gets worked in when you have time. But yeah, med students hoping for lifestyle specialties all miss their share of TV shows and curtail going out to occasional weekends and post-exam festivities. You aren't a college kid anymore.

It's all about balance and priorities. You don't get to keep a "chill" fun lifestyle if you aren't able to do that and still get good grades. You should never have the attitude that you could have gotten honors but it simply wasn't worth it to put in that extra effort. But yeah, if this is your attitude, you pretty much will have to take whatever is leftover in the match, because the competitive fields expect folks to have a better work ethic.

 

[MrBurns10]

Maybe I just have to figure out if getting into Rads or a competitive field is worth being a hermit for the next 4 years, because that's what it sounds like it takes?

No, that's not what it takes. Whether intended or not, L2D's post above mine makes it sound like you have to study 23/7, with the extra hour for whatever you want, which isn't quite true for most people. Your basic science grades don't matter that much. They matter in that it is what you'll be tested on step 1, but the grades in and of themselves don't matter much. Plus, it seems a lot of tests the first couple years seem to test the minutiae, so not getting honors doesn't necessarily mean you don't know the material. If you can do well on step 1, get good clinical grades, and be involved in some sort of research, you'll usually match fine. But L2D is right in that your MCAT isn't the determinator of your step 1 score, it's how hard/efficiently you study for the test.

Also, if your goal is a radiologist from a top 10 program, then maybe there's more hermitness in your future. But if your goal is to be a radiologist, there are lots of solid programs out there and you can probably match with working hard but not at the expense of everything else.

 

[Law2Doc]

Whether intended or not, L2D's post above mine makes it sound like you have to study 23/7, with the extra hour for whatever you want, which isn't quite true for most people. Your basic science grades don't matter that much. They matter in that it is what you'll be tested on step 1, but the grades in and of themselves don't matter much. Plus, it seems a lot of tests the first couple years seem to test the minutiae, so not getting honors doesn't necessarily mean you don't know the material. If you can do well on step 1, get good clinical grades, and be involved in some sort of research, you'll usually match fine. But L2D is right in that your MCAT isn't the determinator of your step 1 score, it's how hard/efficiently you study for the test.

I didn't say the OP had to study 23/7. But I think there is a happy medium somewhere between 23/7 and what OP suggests she is doing. In my experience, when someone is trying to rationalize not pushing themselves because it would take some "exponential" amount of effort to get to the next level, they aren't working very hard. Maybe I'm reading too much into what OP said, but the picture I'm getting is that this is someone who doesn't like to work hard and so is now seeking endorsement of her plan on writing off future options that would demand too much effort. This is a really silly way to pick your future.

Most people during the first two years do have time on non exam weeks to work out, have meals with family/friends, watch a little TV, and maybe go out for a bit on weekend nights and still do fine. But we are talking a couple of hours of non-study time per day with the bulk of your time devoted to study. Which isn't bad, really, but it's a big culture shock from college days, when a lot of us used to study a few hours the weekend before each exam and otherwise never had to miss a happy hour or tailgate party. Med school is a different beast, and you need to approach it differently. Sorry, but you just do. again that doesn't mean 23/7, but it does mean treating med school like a full time long houred (not 9-5) job. You get up early, work hard all day, and have a few hours to blow off steam when your work is done. The folks coming from professional jobs who do well tend to report that if you keep the hours about the same it works well. Which is very different than coming from college and trying to keep the hours comparable.

I agree that the first two years' grades don't matter a whole lot, but those years are the biggest part of your step 1 studying effort, whether you know it or not -- the folks who aced everything prior to the end of second year have a much much easier time preparing for Step 1 than the folks who didn't push themselves and have a lot of material to cover that they don't know well. The MCAT itself is meaningless once you get into med school. As the above poster suggests, it's about how hard you study for the test, and that studying extends into how you use the preceding two years.

 

[WellWornLad]

I didn't say the OP had to study 23/7. But I think there is a happy medium somewhere between 23/7 and what OP suggests she is doing...

While I respect Law2Doc's opinion, there's a lot of mixed messages both on SDN and in med school. If I hear one more professor talk about how we shouldn't give up our outside interests or external lives in med school before blowing through 50 pages of notes in an hour, I'm going to include "backhand faceslapping of med school professors" among my outside interests.

Just do the best you can, and figure out your hand after it's dealt. If motivation is the problem, try setting a schedule and sticking to it. It sounds like you have a rather unstructured schedule - that's not always bad, but it does make it easier to let things slide if you're not in the mood to study. Being on schedule sucks, but like anything else it gets easier after a couple of weeks. If you feel like your level of preparation is fine then no worries, but it sounds to me like you feel like you could be doing more. Only you can judge.

 

[MrBurns10]

I didn't say the OP had to study 23/7. But I think there is a happy medium somewhere between 23/7 and what OP suggests she is doing.

Ah ok, I interpreted the OP was just trying to justify not being a "hermit" to achieve some balance in his/her life. I agree with your explanation.

 

[Textuality]

I already study about 3 hours a day or so, and catch up on the weekend. But I'm still about middle of the class. I feel like I have a good "balance" right now, but I guess not for being "competitive".

Yeah, we keep getting lectures about pursuing outside interests etc, it's a little funny... I'm taking a figure drawing class though, and enjoying it a lot.

And I meant that I studied well for the MCAT (i.e. had a plan for my weekly studying etc) and subsequently did well. I didn't mean that I thought the MCAT had predictive power, lol. Just that I have a healthy respect for how much these tests mean and put in the effort, with resonably good results.

Sorry if I sound like a slacker that bum around all day, I don't, I think I have a pretty good work ethic and I'm fairly on top of all the material. The things I miss on exams tend to be minutia that I didn't include in my notes because I didn't think they were that important (since they were never emphasized or mentioned in lecture) , but the professor was apparently of differing opinion. The only way I can think of to remedy that is to start including all minutia I find in the texts....which brings me to the hermit issue...

 

[Textuality]

If you feel like your level of preparation is fine then no worries, but it sounds to me like you feel like you could be doing more. Only you can judge.

Haha, well I can always be doing MORE...
It's hard to gauge right not if my preparation is "fine", I mean, I'm passing, and about the exact median of the class, which I think is "fine"..except if I decide to pursue Rad or something down the line.. I think. I don't know, I get a lot of mixed messages about what exactly is important in residency matching.

 

[dienekes88]

Hmmm... middle of the class on 3 hours per day? You're pretty smart! 🙂 (totally serious)

You can always do more, but what's sustainable? If you can manage 5 hours per day, and you think that's sustainable, then I think it would behoove you to do so... in case you want to get that 260 and match RadOnc.

Maybe you're like DrDre311 over in the Surgery forum. He thought med school was easy and matched integrated plastics. On the other hand, maybe you aren't -as is the case for most medical students. Thus, treating medical school like a full-time long houred job is probably the best bet for all but the most talented students. I have to do so in order to shoot for the average, because... well... I don't know much science, and learning for me is kinda like throwing spaghetti at a wall. Not much sticks, but if you throw enough of it...

Only you know where you stand.

 

[Textuality]

Hmmm... middle of the class on 3 hours per day? You're pretty smart! 🙂 (totally serious)

You can always do more, but what's sustainable? If you can manage 5 hours per day, and you think that's sustainable, then I think it would behoove you to do so... in case you want to get that 260 and match RadOnc.

Maybe you're like DrDre311 over in the Surgery forum. He thought med school was easy and matched integrated plastics. On the other hand, maybe you aren't -as is the case for most medical students. Thus, treating medical school like a full-time long houred job is probably the best bet for all but the most talented students. I have to do so in order to shoot for the average, because... well... I don't know much science, and learning for me is kinda like throwing spaghetti at a wall. Not much sticks, but if you throw enough of it...

Only you know where you stand.

Thanks 🙂 I meant 3 hours outside of lecture, and that's not including the random reading of wiki about random anatomy, lol. I don't think I'm that smart, certainly don't feel it. Haha, I think I have a bit of imposter syndrome sometimes being surrounded by classmates that have patented things. They're so awesome, and that's great, but it can be a little scary sometimes.

Yeah, it's still early in MS1, I'm still feeling out where I SHOULD stand (position is relative right, lol) and where I am standing. Appreciate the support though 🙂

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I think people use competitive too generally.

Is Radiology competitive? Yes. Is ENT competitive? Yes. Is Dermatology competitive? Yes. Are they all equally competitive? Hell to the no.

The thing is, there's competitive and then there's competitive. Yes, Derm and Plastics surgery basically requires hard work, genius, people skills, and luck in various quantities to even hope to match. Something like Radiology just requires you be "above average" to have a good chance to match somewhere (of course, not the top tier, but somewhere).

I'm going to resist putting up a tiered approach from "Competitive' to "Very competitive" to "Uber super mega competitiive" because as soon as I do I'll get nerd rage from some of the named specialties would come and say "We're MUCH MORE competitive because blah blah blah." and the thread would devolve, but my point stants: not all competitiveness is made equal.

Outside of the unholiness of competition that is Integrated Plastics and Derm, most places you're going to have a HOPE of matching at SOMEWHERE with "pretty good" grades and a "pretty good step" (Shoot for 230, it's very doable with the right preparation). And if you come to the third year and you still are worried, delay and do a research year if it really bothers you.

 

[MrBurns10]

Outside of the unholiness of competition that is Integrated Plastics and Derm, most places you're going to have a HOPE of matching at SOMEWHERE with "pretty good" grades and a "pretty good step" (Shoot for 230, it's very doable with the right preparation). And if you come to the third year and you still are worried, delay and do a research year if it really bothers you.

Agree. I'm probably going to forget something, but off the top of my head, I would probably put it like this:

Derm = Plastics
Neuro
ENT = Ortho = Urology
Rads = Ophtho
Gen Surg
Anesthesiology = EM
....etc

Oh, and this is how I see it just for matching, not necessarily at a top tier program.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Nevermind. Doesn't really matter. PeepshowJohnny had the right idea.

 

[njbmd]

So what happens if I discover after 3 years, that I love a specialty that is too competitive for me to realistically match in? Is that a common situation to be in? Do people just pick something easier and go with it on the fly?

I think I'm just getting a little paranoid that I'll get "trapped" into a residency that I'm not that into. :/

Well, the only sure way to avoid being "trapped" is to make sure that this doesn't happen. What are you willing to do to avoid the "trap"? Everything has a price and if you are willing to pay the price, then you get what you want.

The other thing about medicine is that nothing is set in stone. If you find that you hate what you have completed residency in, then you find a way to combine the specialty that you have completed with something that you love. If you wound up in Family Medicine but wanted orthopedic surgery, then do a Sports Medicine fellowship and at least hang out with jocks. You can have all the fun of orthopedics without the hassle of doing a ton of total hips and knees. You would also make more money then the average Family Medicine doc too.

Just completing medical school gives you options. Completing a residency gives you more options. No matter what you enter, you can combine it with something that you love. Look at Dr. Sanjay Gupta who combined neurosurgery with TV news! My guess is that when he started out in neurosurgery, he didn't plan on being the star of CNN.

Chill out and do your best. Believe me, Derm isn't a "dream" for everyone and Family Medicine isn't the dregs for everyone. You will have more options than you think when the time comes to choose a specialty.

 

[LadyWolverine]

Chill out and do your best. Believe me, Derm isn't a "dream" for everyone and Family Medicine isn't the dregs for everyone. You will have more options than you think when the time comes to choose a specialty.

Amen. I thought family medicine rocked. 👍