Residency Evaluations

[DrRobert]

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Do future employers read these evaluations, and are they used to determine whether or not to offer jobs to recent graduates?

 

[VentdependenT]

I dunno. If I were hiring someone I'd call the residency director and ask for the low down.

Thats where you can either make it or get totally screwed.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

That is likely program dependent. If you have copies of your evaluations, and of course they are positive, you can preempt prospective employers' curiosity and include them in your CV.

Otherwise, employers tend to contact the people on your reference list as well as others not on the list if possible (PD, other contact in the program, etc.) and gather as much information as possible.

 

[urge]

Do future employers read these evaluations, and are they used to determine whether or not to offer jobs to recent graduates?

No. They'll call somebody in the department that they know. Its very common for people to know each other if you are looking close to your residency. If people cannot get direct info about you, your chances are decreased.

Makes me wonder why you are asking this. Did you get creamed in an eval?

 

[DrRobert]

Makes me wonder why you are asking this. Did you get creamed in an eval?

No. My evaluations have been pretty solid. Asking this question is comparable to a MS3 asking if the comments from their rotation evaluations could have implications (positive or negative) down the road. We all know how subjective evaluations can be, and it's not unheard of for someone to get the shaft undeservedly. It would be nice to know if you did happen to get shafted that no one else would be able to see that evaluation in the future other than the PD, Chairperson, etc.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I have never had a potential employer ask for a resident's specific evaluations. They usually ask in generalities. If the overall trend is good, your letter writers or references will most likely never even know(or will have since forgotten) that you had any bad eval (ie, if it was only 1 or 2 potential problem evals). I would say that blatantly bad evals are unusual unless it is a resident that is truly struggling. If that is not the case, I wouldn't worry about it.

I have seen one instance where a resident was attempting to transfer from another program into ours. The evaluations in their file were the main thing that caused us not to accept their transfer (3 bad evals from 3 different faculty in only one year and only ~5 good evals).

So, my opinion is that one or two moderately bad evals mixed with many positive evals is no big deal. A trend of multiple bad evals from different evaluators would be a major red flag that you would need to worry about. As urge said, as a group, it helps if you know someone in the department that can give you the inside scoop on what type of resident they were. As a resident graduate, you better hope that they don't investigate further.

Another thing to consider is the impression you make on your upper level residents. These are the ones who will go out into practice ahead of you and join the groups that you will also be interested in. I know of one instance where a resident from an outstanding well respected program was not even considered for an interview in the city that was their first choice geographically because word had gotten out (from other alums that recalled how difficult they were to work with; half way across the US!!). It didn't matter what their letters of recommendation may have looked like. Karma is a b!tch.

 

[coprolalia]

I'm a CA2 and I agree with Gern. Here's why.

First, there is a guy who's finishing residency this year who's a completely a-hole. If you ask anyone in our program what they think of the guy, and they will tell you loudmouth, arrogant, lazy, d!ck trouble-maker. But, he's smart and he's a good anesthesiologist - that's his problem. He's one of those dudes you just can't stand to be around for more than 10 minutes because, inevitably, he's going to go off on you or someone else about something. I'm sure his personal file is chock full of negative evals, because it's so bad with this dude that everyone around the hospital hates him.

So, we learn last week that he's gotten a job in another state. And, the word gets around, too, that the guy hiring him called our PD. You see, they are longtime friends. Put 2 and 2 together. What do you think our PD said? Remember dude got hired.

Each program has an interest in getting you out the door having passed your boards on the first try and demonstrating that they can retain and develop future consultants. Sure, there is a network out there and ultimately someone knows somebody in your program. But, if they badmouth you to a prospective employer, how does it make them look? Their reputation is on the line too. And, if you were really that much of a problem, then the person on the other end of the phone is going to think, "why didn't they deal with this during this dude/dudette's residency? Maybe this is an applicant pool I can skip next time around."

Fact is, most attendings out there (and I've met a lot of them moonlighting) are pretty reasonable too. They know residency sucks. They know that there are a lot of academicians who want to prove how big their genitalia is to you, and provided you don't have a track record of killing people or molesting patients or something, you're probably going to do okay. What's my proof of this? That this CA3 dude actually still got the job despite this phone call from our PD's buddy.

-copro

 

[militarymd]

I'm a CA2 and I agree with Gern. Here's why.

First, there is a guy who's finishing residency this year who's a completely a-hole. If you ask anyone in our program what they think of the guy, and they will tell you loudmouth, arrogant, lazy, d!ck trouble-maker. But, he's smart and he's a good anesthesiologist - that's his problem. He's one of those dudes you just can't stand to be around for more than 10 minutes because, inevitably, he's going to go off on you or someone else about something. I'm sure his personal file is chock full of negative evals, because it's so bad with this dude that everyone around the hospital hates him.

So, we learn last week that he's gotten a job in another state. And, the word gets around, too, that the guy hiring him called our PD. You see, they are longtime friends. Put 2 and 2 together. What do you think our PD said? Remember dude got hired.

Each program has an interest in getting you out the door having passed your boards on the first try and demonstrating that they can retain and develop future consultants. Sure, there is a network out there and ultimately someone knows somebody in your program. But, if they badmouth you to a prospective employer, how does it make them look? Their reputation is on the line too. And, if you were really that much of a problem, then the person on the other end of the phone is going to think, "why didn't they deal with this during this dude/dudette's residency? Maybe this is an applicant pool I can skip next time around."

Fact is, most attendings out there (and I've met a lot of them moonlighting) are pretty reasonable too. They know residency sucks. They know that there are a lot of academicians who want to prove how big their genitalia is to you, and provided you don't have a track record of killing people or molesting patients or something, you're probably going to do okay. What's my proof of this? That this CA3 dude actually still got the job despite this phone call from our PD's buddy.

-copro

May it's one of those practices that just wants an associate for a couple of years at low pay before giving him the shaft.

What better candidate to get?

he's safe....but there'll be plenty of reasons to fire him after a couple of years.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I'm a CA2 and I agree with Gern. Here's why.

First, there is a guy who's finishing residency this year who's a completely a-hole. If you ask anyone in our program what they think of the guy, and they will tell you loudmouth, arrogant, lazy, d!ck trouble-maker.

I have seen this type. They are very competent, but their interpersonal skills are so bad that every nurse hates them because they are rude and condescending towards everyone.

I have dealt with 2 particular cases. Both required an inordinate amount of time to deal with due to meetings to discuss complaints about them, but they had very different outcomes. One who refused to listen or take advice on how to effectively deal with others is no longer practicing medicine and did not finish the residency. The other was willing to listen and put into practice some practical tips on dealing effectively with people with whom you disagree. As they progressed through the residency, the complaints became less and less as they became easier to work with. About one year after finishing residency, they returned and told me that the most important thing I ever taught him during residency had nothing to do with anesthesiology, but dealing with people. He was very thankful and humble and has been very successful in the private sector.

So...I think people can change, but it is very hard for most.

I would also add that it is very uncommon in my experience for a resident to not be successful because they are incapable. It almost always falls into the catch all professionalism issue whether it be drugs, personality disorders, laziness etc. Copro mentioned this in his rant to the high school student the other day. By the time you finish the long road, some people are so screwed up and have a warped view of reality that they can't function in a normal environment.

 

[coprolalia]

May it's one of those practices that just wants an associate for a couple of years at low pay before giving him the shaft.

What better candidate to get?

he's safe....but there'll be plenty of reasons to fire him after a couple of years.

Could be. Guess we'll find out in a couple of years.

-copro