I am considering medical school in either Ireland or the Philippines. Which would be easier to secure a US residency spot? Looking at residency in Anesthesiology or Cardiology or Surgery (I understand I may change my mind on this). I know that school in the Philippines would be exceptionally cheaper than Ireland but have heard good things about Irish schools. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
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Residency from Philippines Vs. Ireland
- Thread starter mconnell
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mconnell said:I am considering medical school in either Ireland or the Philippines. Which would be easier to secure a US residency spot? Looking at residency in Anesthesiology or Cardiology or Surgery (I understand I may change my mind on this). I know that school in the Philippines would be exceptionally cheaper than Ireland but have heard good things about Irish schools. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
sorry 😳 ...took out my original comment...don't want to mislead anyone by it... 🙂
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I'm a Philippine grad who finished his residency in the US. I will give a qualifed answer. If you are going to a foreign school, the outcome is whatever effort you put into it. If you study hard and review independently for USMLE (non-caribbean schools will not prep you for USMLE), you can attain certain goals.
If you are going into primary care (IM/FP/Peds), you can get into these programs in the US even if you graduate from the Philippines. A very good score in USMLE can even get you into some competitive residency programs.
However, for competitive programs or residency, program directors tend to prefer European grads. I know this as a lot of European grads (Germans, French, Irish) were accepted in my program even though they have not received their official licensure from their home country.
If you are going into primary care (IM/FP/Peds), you can get into these programs in the US even if you graduate from the Philippines. A very good score in USMLE can even get you into some competitive residency programs.
However, for competitive programs or residency, program directors tend to prefer European grads. I know this as a lot of European grads (Germans, French, Irish) were accepted in my program even though they have not received their official licensure from their home country.
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tantrum said:I'm a Philippine grad who finished his residency in the US. I will give a qualifed answer. If you are going to a foreign school, the outcome is whatever effort you put into it. If you study hard and review independently for USMLE (non-caribbean schools will not prep you for USMLE), you can attain certain goals.
If you are going into primary care (IM/FP/Peds), you can get into these programs in the US even if you graduate from the Philippines. A very good score in USMLE can even get you into some competitive residency programs.
However, for competitive programs or residency, program directors tend to prefer European grads. I know this as a lot of European grads (Germans, French, Irish) were accepted in my program even though they have not received their official licensure from their home country.
dr. tantrum, would you mind if i ask what kind of program you got into? and if you decided to practice there in the US or here in the philippines? i was the derma-wannabe you were giving advice to in another thread. thanks...
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I matched in Pediatrics, my Filipino co-residents are older than me (they are in their mid-40's). I want to go back home but my wife does not like the idea plus we had some loans by that time so I decided to stay in the US. Most primary care specialties are still open for foreign grads. To give you an idea, here is the number of UNFILLED positions after the match (for scramble) this year in certain specialties: Family Practice- 404, Internal Medicine- 99, Pediatrics- 79.islandchickie said:dr. tantrum, would you mind if i ask what kind of program you got into? and if you decided to practice there in the US or here in the philippines? i was the derma-wannabe you were giving advice to in another thread. thanks...
Some foreign graduates also accepted positions pre-match.
You can go to pinoyimg.com once you are looking for residency guidance. The trick is apply early and to a lot of hospitals that will consider IMG's (international medical graduates).
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thanks dr. tantrum! i'll look up that site! better to prepare for it though i still haven't gone through the whole mle thing. para na rin i can make a time line for myself!
wow! there were so many positions left pa pla for the scramble! wonder how come my batchmates had a hard time getting matched? and these are the intelligent ones ha! anyway, thanks again for answering my questions! hope yoe are enjoying your the practice there! goodluck po! 😀
wow! there were so many positions left pa pla for the scramble! wonder how come my batchmates had a hard time getting matched? and these are the intelligent ones ha! anyway, thanks again for answering my questions! hope yoe are enjoying your the practice there! goodluck po! 😀
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I'm sorry I did not qualify my statement. I did not say it will be easy. It's possible if you work hard on your application. Their priority is American medical school grads, then American or green card holders with foreign degree. A lot of hospitals don't want to sponsor visas (J-1 or H-1). Also, you are competing against thousands of other foreign grads like Indians and Pakistanis who may have 90's on their USMLE score. Another thing they could do is get US CLinical experience with LOR from an American doctor. They can do this with observership in some hospitals if they don't get matched.
Here is an excerpt from an email of an old doctor familiar with residencies:
Dear Doctor - Your inquiry on how to look for a
internship/residency/fellowship in the USA was forwarded to me by Dr.
Conrado Miranda, Chairman, Board of Trustees, UERMMMC Alumni Foundation in America for a reply. I don't know you and your background, class standing and experiences but let me give you some pointers having served as Department Chairman and Program Director for 30 years in 3 medical schools in the USA. I am now Emeritus Professor and Chairman and I am not Program Director anymore although some old brochures still mention me as Program Director.
Let me start from the basic to the most detailed, if you have the
patience and if you are receptive to sound and practical advise, as
follows:
1. Make a very good Curriculum vitae. It must include the highlights
of your undergraduate and medical education. List of honors, awards,
publications, research projects, etc. Please remember you are trying to
sell yourself! Don't make it too lengthy with unimportant details. Go
direct to the point but with "bullets" and one liners, if possible.
2. I don't know what discipline you are interested in but don't apply
to crowded disciplines or disciplines that AMGs (American Medical
Graduates or domestic medical school graduates) want to pursue, i.e.,
ophthamology, ER medicine, OB-GYN, the surgical subspecialties (ortho,
urology, plastic surgery, thoracic cardiac surgery, etc.) but look for
the less attractive disciplines, i.e., pathology, psychiatry,
anestheiology, family medicine, etc.
3. Consult the Green Book or the AMA Graduate Medical Education
Directory in your medical library. They might have old issues but the
Residency Program are still there with the names of the Program
Director, their NIRMP Number, addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail
addresses. Many programs prefer electronic applications because it is
faster and it saves a lot of time. WARNING!! Don't clutter their fax
machine with lengthy letters and curriculum vitae!!
a) Start with the non-university program first. Why? Because
university program will offer their best
positions to their own graduates first and it makes sense
because they know who they are and they
know the quality of the applicant.
b) Here is the pecking order (in the order of preference) -
Graduate of their medical school, then graduate of
other American medical school,, then applicants who are
graduate of US & Canada medical school who
decided to shift to their discipline, then graduates of US
osteopathic medical schoo, then U.S. citizens
who graduated from the Carribean/foreign medical school but
had undergraduate education in the USA,
then caucasian graduates of English speaking countries, then
IMGs from foreign medical school. Please
note that you are at the end of the "chow" line and the last
preference.
c) Most Program Directors will give IMG's a cut-off USMLE Step I
& II scores of not less than 80%. If you
have 75%, chances are that they might not even review your
credentials! Every Program Director wants
the best applicant to his/her program.
d) If your scores are below 80% in spite of your class standing
and grades in medical school, apply first to
non-university program, then apply to university programs, if
you still have the energy and enthusiasm
& money to spend!
e) If you are a US citizen and can live in the USA, volunteer to
observe or work in research in the
Department where you want to pursue your training. Why?
They will get to know you and vice-versa.
If they offer you a grant not matter how miniscule it is,
take it! As an observer, you can only observe
will not be able to touch patients or do patient work-ups
because to State Licensure regulations and
also the medico-legal implications.
f) If your USMLE scores are low, take another test but prepare
better and give only the better scores
rather than the old low scores. They might ask you how many
times you took the USMLE tests!
4. Try to be very patient. Send as many applications as necessary. I
know a Filipino M.D. who wrote 300 applications who did not even get a
single interview!! Keep on trying and no matter what you do, it can be
very expensive.
5. Take anything that they will offer you because you can still back
out of a contract as long as you have a legitimate reason and also if
you back out early enough so that they can still consider other
desirable candiates.
If you back out, do it with dignity and honor and as decently as
possible.
6. When you are ask to report for an interviews:
a) Dress properly usually a business suit which is dark in color.
No loud ties, earrings, weird looking gadgets
hanging on you. Be very professional!! Also be
appropriate all the time.
b) Report on time and if you have to arrive the day before and
practice going to the place of interview, that
is preferable.
c) Remember you are being interviewed by busy
professionals/practitioners and you don't want to waste
their precious time!!
d) Answer questions directly and be honest if you don't know the
answer rather than "bull****" your inter-
view. Remember, the interviewer is a specialist and he/she
is the expert on the subject so that you will
alway be at a disadvantage.
7. After the interview, send the Program Director and those who
interviewed you a "thank you" card letting them know you will rank them
very highly. They will appreciate this gesture. Be humble and don't
try to oversell yourself. They will know how good you are.
8. When asking for letters of references, be sure you will ask those
who will give you a positive image!! If you have a reference in the
USA, use is as much as possible because it is easier to communicate with
him/her. If his/her e-mail address is available, please provide it to
the Program Director. I found out that electronic mail/communication is
faster and also less formal but very, very effective.
Let me stop here and I will continue with another e-mail. Please ask
any questions you want to ask and share these information with your
classmates.
I wish you my best regards.
Here is an excerpt from an email of an old doctor familiar with residencies:
Dear Doctor - Your inquiry on how to look for a
internship/residency/fellowship in the USA was forwarded to me by Dr.
Conrado Miranda, Chairman, Board of Trustees, UERMMMC Alumni Foundation in America for a reply. I don't know you and your background, class standing and experiences but let me give you some pointers having served as Department Chairman and Program Director for 30 years in 3 medical schools in the USA. I am now Emeritus Professor and Chairman and I am not Program Director anymore although some old brochures still mention me as Program Director.
Let me start from the basic to the most detailed, if you have the
patience and if you are receptive to sound and practical advise, as
follows:
1. Make a very good Curriculum vitae. It must include the highlights
of your undergraduate and medical education. List of honors, awards,
publications, research projects, etc. Please remember you are trying to
sell yourself! Don't make it too lengthy with unimportant details. Go
direct to the point but with "bullets" and one liners, if possible.
2. I don't know what discipline you are interested in but don't apply
to crowded disciplines or disciplines that AMGs (American Medical
Graduates or domestic medical school graduates) want to pursue, i.e.,
ophthamology, ER medicine, OB-GYN, the surgical subspecialties (ortho,
urology, plastic surgery, thoracic cardiac surgery, etc.) but look for
the less attractive disciplines, i.e., pathology, psychiatry,
anestheiology, family medicine, etc.
3. Consult the Green Book or the AMA Graduate Medical Education
Directory in your medical library. They might have old issues but the
Residency Program are still there with the names of the Program
Director, their NIRMP Number, addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail
addresses. Many programs prefer electronic applications because it is
faster and it saves a lot of time. WARNING!! Don't clutter their fax
machine with lengthy letters and curriculum vitae!!
a) Start with the non-university program first. Why? Because
university program will offer their best
positions to their own graduates first and it makes sense
because they know who they are and they
know the quality of the applicant.
b) Here is the pecking order (in the order of preference) -
Graduate of their medical school, then graduate of
other American medical school,, then applicants who are
graduate of US & Canada medical school who
decided to shift to their discipline, then graduates of US
osteopathic medical schoo, then U.S. citizens
who graduated from the Carribean/foreign medical school but
had undergraduate education in the USA,
then caucasian graduates of English speaking countries, then
IMGs from foreign medical school. Please
note that you are at the end of the "chow" line and the last
preference.
c) Most Program Directors will give IMG's a cut-off USMLE Step I
& II scores of not less than 80%. If you
have 75%, chances are that they might not even review your
credentials! Every Program Director wants
the best applicant to his/her program.
d) If your scores are below 80% in spite of your class standing
and grades in medical school, apply first to
non-university program, then apply to university programs, if
you still have the energy and enthusiasm
& money to spend!
e) If you are a US citizen and can live in the USA, volunteer to
observe or work in research in the
Department where you want to pursue your training. Why?
They will get to know you and vice-versa.
If they offer you a grant not matter how miniscule it is,
take it! As an observer, you can only observe
will not be able to touch patients or do patient work-ups
because to State Licensure regulations and
also the medico-legal implications.
f) If your USMLE scores are low, take another test but prepare
better and give only the better scores
rather than the old low scores. They might ask you how many
times you took the USMLE tests!
4. Try to be very patient. Send as many applications as necessary. I
know a Filipino M.D. who wrote 300 applications who did not even get a
single interview!! Keep on trying and no matter what you do, it can be
very expensive.
5. Take anything that they will offer you because you can still back
out of a contract as long as you have a legitimate reason and also if
you back out early enough so that they can still consider other
desirable candiates.
If you back out, do it with dignity and honor and as decently as
possible.
6. When you are ask to report for an interviews:
a) Dress properly usually a business suit which is dark in color.
No loud ties, earrings, weird looking gadgets
hanging on you. Be very professional!! Also be
appropriate all the time.
b) Report on time and if you have to arrive the day before and
practice going to the place of interview, that
is preferable.
c) Remember you are being interviewed by busy
professionals/practitioners and you don't want to waste
their precious time!!
d) Answer questions directly and be honest if you don't know the
answer rather than "bull****" your inter-
view. Remember, the interviewer is a specialist and he/she
is the expert on the subject so that you will
alway be at a disadvantage.
7. After the interview, send the Program Director and those who
interviewed you a "thank you" card letting them know you will rank them
very highly. They will appreciate this gesture. Be humble and don't
try to oversell yourself. They will know how good you are.
8. When asking for letters of references, be sure you will ask those
who will give you a positive image!! If you have a reference in the
USA, use is as much as possible because it is easier to communicate with
him/her. If his/her e-mail address is available, please provide it to
the Program Director. I found out that electronic mail/communication is
faster and also less formal but very, very effective.
Let me stop here and I will continue with another e-mail. Please ask
any questions you want to ask and share these information with your
classmates.
I wish you my best regards.
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wow! thanks dr. tantrum! as always, i get loads of good info from you! hope you don't mind of i copy and save your entry. don't want to end up losing all that info! 😀 it sure is hard work and draining on the budget 🙁 . i must really prepare myself for this if want it as badly as i think i do... thanks for being so kind to share this info doc...all the best to you and your family...
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will do that doc! i'll send this around doc! salamat po uli! is it ok if i add you to my buddy list po? 😀
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