Residency Hours

[turtmd]

Hello I was looking at my school's medical college web site and in the Anesthesiology Department they had information regarding the resident hours..."Residents are limited to 80hrs/week monthly average" Does this mean that as a resident you have to work 80hrs per week (monday thru sunday???) or how this works....thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. 😕

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[AngryBaby]

Hello I was looking at my school's medical college web site and in the Anesthesiology Department they had information regarding the resident hours..."Residents are limited to 80hrs/week monthly average" Does this mean that as a resident you have to work 80hrs per week (monday thru sunday???) or how this works....thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. 😕

That is exactly what it means, though I've heard some programs are much more consistent with enforcing this rule than others. Also not all residencies (surgery for example) have a cap on hrs/week you will work.

 

[DrMom]

Hello I was looking at my school's medical college web site and in the Anesthesiology Department they had information regarding the resident hours..."Residents are limited to 80hrs/week monthly average" Does this mean that as a resident you have to work 80hrs per week (monday thru sunday???) or how this works....thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. 😕

Yes, and that 80 hrs is averaged over 4 weeks, meaning that some weeks you end up doing more. You can work up to 30 hours in a row, but then have to have 12 hrs off.

All specialties/residencies are under the cap, although some programs pressure the residents to fudge the #s.

 

[AngryBaby]

All specialties/residencies are under the cap, although some programs pressure the residents to fudge the #s.

Really? Do you know when did they all become covered?

 

[HTD]

Don't go into medicine if you are a "clock watcher". I realize the whole point of the work hours restrictions and disagree with most of the argument. Illness does not know you are on a shift. I am not saying you need to never leave the building, but tight shifts make it hard.

This is a dead horse argument but, we are going to get exactly what we ask for and it won't be good. We will never be less regulated than we are today. Just this morning I was wondering with my wife (an OB) what our profession would be like in 50 years. We both seem to think it will be vastly different than today in terms of what a physician and a medical degree mean in relation to the ever growing pool of "health care providers".

Sorry, did not mean to vent on you. Best of luck in your career.

 

[turtmd]

Don't go into medicine if you are a "clock watcher". I realize the whole point of the work hours restrictions and disagree with most of the argument. Illness does not know you are on a shift. I am not saying you need to never leave the building, but tight shifts make it hard.

This is a dead horse argument but, we are going to get exactly what we ask for and it won't be good. We will never be less regulated than we are today. Just this morning I was wondering with my wife (an OB) what our profession would be like in 50 years. We both seem to think it will be vastly different than today in terms of what a physician and a medical degree mean in relation to the ever growing pool of "health care providers".

Sorry, did not mean to vent on you. Best of luck in your career.

Thank you for wishing me luck, but I was asking to get more information on the subject and I am not as you say a "clock watcher"; I know medicine is a very demanding time consuming career...and that if you are not willing to put the time and the effort in it you will probably not succeed...I wanted to get more info regarding the time you have to spend during your residency since I am a female and would like to have a family some day...at this moment in my life I am conteplating other careers that interest me too...Thank you for your input.

 

[DrMom]

Really? Do you know when did they all become covered?

All specialties were included when the policy was instituted a few years ago.


*edit*
Here's a link to an ACGME FAQ document on the work rules that has some good info in it.

http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/dutyHours/dh_faqs.pdf

First thing it says is that they duty hour standards apply to all accredited residencies. Later it says that programs can petition for a 10% increase, but that they have to document that the residents' training and education will be lacking if they don't work more hours. I don't know how many programs have gotten this approval.

 

[turtmd]

How hard it is to balance your personal life and residency? Like I said I am a female and would like to have kids one day...so for the people who are residents how do you manage? Thanks

 

[vtucci]

80 hours is the max. As has been stated, some programs really push that limit but they can get fined if it is reported. However, other programs and specialties do not hit the 80 hour max. Your school may know which programs have a reputation for doing this.

Also, clock watching is bad but I do not think it is unreasonable for someone to be opposed to working really long hours as it can injure our patients. Air traffic controllers work 4 hour shifts with a mandatory break afterwards. Does anyone think our patients deserve less? We are a lot more likely to make mistakes in medications or procedures if we are tired.

 

[ddmo]

How hard it is to balance your personal life and residency? Like I said I am a female and would like to have kids one day...so for the people who are residents how do you manage? Thanks

A lot of this depends on what field you are interested in. The "80 hrs" in derm are completely different than the "same 80 hrs" in surgery.

 

[skypilot]

80 hours is the max. As has been stated, some programs really push that limit but they can get fined if it is reported. However, other programs and specialties do not hit the 80 hour max. Your school may know which programs have a reputation for doing this.

Also, clock watching is bad but I do not think it is unreasonable for someone to be opposed to working really long hours as it can injure our patients. Air traffic controllers work 4 hour shifts with a mandatory break afterwards. Does anyone think our patients deserve less? We are a lot more likely to make mistakes in medications or procedures if we are tired.

Yeah, don't forget about the patients. For every 10 residents who are tough as nails and can easily be alert after 80 hours on the job there is one that is exhausted and a danger to patients. That adds up to thousands of injured patients every year. Don't forget about the patients.

 

[AngryBaby]

All specialties were included when the policy was instituted a few years ago.


*edit*
Here's a link to an ACGME FAQ document on the work rules that has some good info in it.

http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/dutyHours/dh_faqs.pdf

First thing it says is that they duty hour standards apply to all accredited residencies. Later it says that programs can petition for a 10% increase, but that they have to document that the residents' training and education will be lacking if they don't work more hours. I don't know how many programs have gotten this approval.

Thanks for the link, DrMom, appreciate it. 👍

 

[LuckyBambooGirl]

Hello I was looking at my school's medical college web site and in the Anesthesiology Department they had information regarding the resident hours..."Residents are limited to 80hrs/week monthly average" Does this mean that as a resident you have to work 80hrs per week (monday thru sunday???) or how this works....thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. 😕

It all depends on the program. I know a family practice resident at my school who only usually only works 40 hours a week, and an OB resident who almost always works 80 hours a week.

 

[Nutmeg1621]

All residencies are hard on time. You have to look at life after residency. Also remember that all residencies are not the same length. If you go to scutwork.com and look up the programs you are interested you will be able to read another person's opinion on it. They usually talk about the hours. Another good resource is http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcindx/0,,TR,00.html and http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/ in using the search sometimes the medical school will add how many hours you will work a week and how many consecutive hours also how many days off a week you will have. Almost all residencies have 1-1.5 days off a week, I think only radiology had 2 days off at the school I am interested in.

But again I stress the importance of looking at life after residency. The Emergency Medicine program at x location has an average of 60 hours a week during residency working 36 hours consecutively sometimes. After residency you can work part time and you are never on call and still make 100k a year. http://phius.com/medicine/medx/hrsayear.htm If you follow this webiste, anesthesiolgy offers a good lifestyle as well. Do a search in the anesthesiolgy forums for lifestyle.

The other thing in almost any field, post residency, you will have the ability to take control of your life. Read up on all the different specialties. Take your electives and decide for yourself what you are willing to sacrifice and what you are not.

A couple of last things I want to add: In any job in life you will need to sacrifice time and show your dedication if you ever want to make anything of yourself. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Don't sacrifice time for happiness. Working 9-5 at a job you hate is no better if the hours seem like an eternity. Do what you will be happy doing.


All of this coming from a single mom interested in surgery. Good luck.

More fun sites:
http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/RESIDENT/CareerCounseling/interior.htm? self-assessment.htm
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/290/9/1173/TABLEJOC30309T1
http://mommd.com/

 

[njbmd]

That is exactly what it means, though I've heard some programs are much more consistent with enforcing this rule than others. Also not all residencies (surgery for example) have a cap on hrs/week you will work.

Hi there,
General Surgery residents are NOT permitted to work more than 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks by RRC rules. Some programs have been granted an additional 8 hours (transplant surgery for example) for patient care continuity.

Residency is not a job but an educational experience. You do not just walk away at 80 hours. Most surgical residents at the junior level (PGY-1 and PGY-2) work around 72 hours per week. That is about 10-12 hours per day with days off (post call time and regular day off).

Again, hours are averaged over a four week period so you may be far under 80 one week and one or two hours over the next week. There are no majical "caps" on anything.

njbmd 🙂
PGY-5 General Surgery resident

 

[HTD]

Residency is not a job but an educational experience. You do not just walk away at 80 hours.

Very well put.

 

[turtmd]

All residencies are hard on time. You have to look at life after residency. Also remember that all residencies are not the same length. If you go to scutwork.com and look up the programs you are interested you will be able to read another person's opinion on it. They usually talk about the hours. Another good resource is http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcindx/0,,TR,00.html and http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/ in using the search sometimes the medical school will add how many hours you will work a week and how many consecutive hours also how many days off a week you will have. Almost all residencies have 1-1.5 days off a week, I think only radiology had 2 days off at the school I am interested in.

But again I stress the importance of looking at life after residency. The Emergency Medicine program at x location has an average of 60 hours a week during residency working 36 hours consecutively sometimes. After residency you can work part time and you are never on call and still make 100k a year. http://phius.com/medicine/medx/hrsayear.htm If you follow this webiste, anesthesiolgy offers a good lifestyle as well. Do a search in the anesthesiolgy forums for lifestyle.

The other thing in almost any field, post residency, you will have the ability to take control of your life. Read up on all the different specialties. Take your electives and decide for yourself what you are willing to sacrifice and what you are not.

A couple of last things I want to add: In any job in life you will need to sacrifice time and show your dedication if you ever want to make anything of yourself. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Don't sacrifice time for happiness. Working 9-5 at a job you hate is no better if the hours seem like an eternity. Do what you will be happy doing.


All of this coming from a single mom interested in surgery. Good luck.

More fun sites:
http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/RESIDENT/CareerCounseling/interior.htm? self-assessment.htm
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/290/9/1173/TABLEJOC30309T1
http://mommd.com/

Thank you very much for your post it's been very helpful.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

man. i dunno how i'm gonna handle residency.

after 22 hours, i can barely put on my contact lenses. my hands are all shaky and weak.

at 30 hours straight, I'm bound to collapse.

that's unhealthy.

 

[Nutmeg1621]

man. i dunno how i'm gonna handle residency.

after 22 hours, i can barely put on my contact lenses. my hands are all shaky and weak.

at 30 hours straight, I'm bound to collapse.

that's unhealthy.

I have learned not to complain b/c we are the new spoiled generation.

Before the recent 80 hour work week limit there were doctors who worked 120 hours. Be grateful!

They call it residency b/c people used to actually live in the hospitals! 😱

(I know that isn't what you wanted to hear.)

 

[NonTradMed]

I know we are the new 'spoiled' generation, what with the Feds making laws to ensure we don't work ourselves to death and all, but how anyone thinks it's healthy to work 100 hrs/week or that it doesn't affect patient care is beyond me. Boy, I'd love to get the resident on his 80th hour

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Hi there,
General Surgery residents are NOT permitted to work more than 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks by RRC rules. Some programs have been granted an additional 8 hours (transplant surgery for example) for patient care continuity.

Residency is not a job but an educational experience. You do not just walk away at 80 hours. Most surgical residents at the junior level (PGY-1 and PGY-2) work around 72 hours per week. That is about 10-12 hours per day with days off (post call time and regular day off).

Again, hours are averaged over a four week period so you may be far under 80 one week and one or two hours over the next week. There are no majical "caps" on anything.

njbmd 🙂
PGY-5 General Surgery resident

Just curious, but do residency programs give you time to read/study for your boards, or do you do this on top of your 80hr/wk workload?

 

[angel80]

Just curious, but do residency programs give you time to read/study for your boards, or do you do this on top of your 80hr/wk workload?

Some months are harder than others. Generally, the floor months are the ones where you do 80 hours/wk. If you are doing a clinic month, you work closer to 40 hours/wk. Consult months tend to be around 40-60 hours a week (again, these are all estimates, there is a lot of variability). It's probably easier to study during a non-call month. Even during call months, if you are in the hospital for 30 hours straight, you do end up with downtime, which, if you wanted, you could use to read. If you do a field like Internal Medicine, you generally have 2 hours of conference a day: morning report and noon conference. If you attend all of the sessions, then you are actually "studying" 10 hours a week without even realizing it.

 

[johndavid]

On this web site, http://www.hourswatch.org/index.htm , there is all kinds of info about residencies and hours. What I find most interesting is the personal stories ( http://www.hourswatch.org/47yourstoriesarticle.htm ). People post anonymously about the way their particular programs run things. Some appear to still be working >100hrs/wk. IF it was a "job", the pay would average out to about $5/hr... 👎

 

[Blade28]

Just curious, but do residency programs give you time to read/study for your boards, or do you do this on top of your 80hr/wk workload?

Which boards? Step 3? Your written/oral boards to get board-certified? Your yearly in-service exam?

You're expected to read at least a little every day (except for when you're on-call). Your post-call days and days off are also great for catching up.

 

[signomi]

Before the recent 80 hour work week limit there were doctors who worked 120 hours. Be grateful!

Yeah, that was me. I'm still bitter.