Residency Interviews: What a waste of time, money, and integrity

[wtm1114]

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I have done almost 20 interviews so far. I'm apply for general surgery, btw. Traveling across the country and milking every penny out of my wallet, I slowly come to realize this whole interview business is just crap. Sorry for venting, but it really is.

There's "weeding out". You can't rule out any program, and the program can't rule out any candidates. I've heard an interviewee being rejected because during the interview she used the computer in the surgery department to do online ebay shopping. That's just too anecdotal. For applicants, the program has perfectly "disguised" itself for the interview day. You never get to see the worst part of the campus (which is often the medicaid hospital). They probably hired a janitor to clean up the call room. For one program (not going to name it tho), I've been told by multiple close friends that it is a highly malignant program. On the interview day, everything was so smooth and benign, and it's just another wonderful place you want to go. The worst part: you have a room of honest people sitting together telling lies and talk **** like politicians.

At this point, I really believe there needs to be a "mutual waiver form":

*I as an applicant trust you not to be a malignant program (because even though you are I won't find out by going there either)

* We as a department trust you not to be a jackass (because even though you are you will still act like pro during the interview)

The results are the same. What we save are a bunch of flight mileage, hotel/car rental bills, foot blisters for walking in uncomfortable shoes, many many trees (envelopes + paper), and 200MB email inbox space.

 

[la petite mort]

I empathize and dread this process for myself. Our profession just doesn't mesh with hand-wringing or even really first impressions.

 

[BennieBlanco]

I have done almost 20 interviews so far. I'm apply for general surgery, btw. Traveling across the country and milking every penny out of my wallet, I slowly come to realize this whole interview business is just crap. Sorry for venting, but it really is.

There's "weeding out". You can't rule out any program, and the program can't rule out any candidates. I've heard an interviewee being rejected because during the interview she used the computer in the surgery department to do online ebay shopping. That's just too anecdotal. For applicants, the program has perfectly "disguised" itself for the interview day. You never get to see the worst part of the campus (which is often the medicaid hospital). They probably hired a janitor to clean up the call room. For one program (not going to name it tho), I've been told by multiple close friends that it is a highly malignant program. On the interview day, everything was so smooth and benign, and it's just another wonderful place you want to go. The worst part: you have a room of honest people sitting together telling lies and talk **** like politicians.

At this point, I really believe there needs to be a "mutual waiver form":

*I as an applicant trust you not to be a malignant program (because even though you are I won't find out by going there either)

* We as a department trust you not to be a jackass (because even though you are you will still act like pro during the interview)

The results are the same. What we save are a bunch of flight mileage, hotel/car rental bills, foot blisters for walking in uncomfortable shoes, many many trees (envelopes + paper), and 200MB email inbox space.

very nice.

 

[JayDoc06]

Responding to this post is a waste of my time, money (if I had any) and integrity. But since no one else took the obvious bait, I will say it, grow up. Count yourself lucky that will (probably) have a job after finishing school. This is the process and it works.

 

[SocialistMD]

There's "weeding out". You can't rule out any program, and the program can't rule out any candidates. I've heard an interviewee being rejected because during the interview she used the computer in the surgery department to do online ebay shopping. That's just too anecdotal.

While the ebay-type story is pretty unusual, there are at least 2 people during every interview session we have who are completely unable to hide how crazy or unreasonable they are, despite being on their "best behavior." The interview sessions do help from the program side. You'll see next year when you are on the other side.

 

[Buzz Me]

Agreed. It always amazes me when I see applicants shooting themselves in the foot and blowing their chances during interview day/reception day by:

*Dressing completely inappropriately (guys without suits, girls wearing provocative clothing)
*Consuming one too many free drinks during the reception dinner
*Being a little too colloquial and uncensored during the reception dinner (again, remember that although you're only among residents, you're still being evaluated)

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I've heard an interviewee being rejected because during the interview she used the computer in the surgery department to do online ebay shopping.

IMO, that shows a remarkable lack of judgment. In what other profession would it be okay to do some personal shopping during a job interview? It's not acceptable in medicine either.

 

[Bond8204]

IMO, that shows a remarkable lack of judgment. In what other profession would it be okay to do some personal shopping during a job interview? It's not acceptable in medicine either.

I think that was the OP's point--beyond one outrageous anecdote they maintain that the vast majority of interviewees come off fine, which is countered by:

*Dressing completely inappropriately (guys without suits, girls wearing provocative clothing)
*Consuming one too many free drinks during the reception dinner
*Being a little too colloquial and uncensored during the reception dinner (again, remember that although you're only among residents, you're still being evaluated)

Haha, noted.

 

[smq123]

There's "weeding out". You can't rule out any program, and the program can't rule out any candidates.

Yes they can.

I have only been on the "other side" for this past interview season, and some of the things I've seen have left me completely confused. It shouldn't be *that* hard to hide your idiosyncrasies for an 8 hour day, but some people really just....can't.

* We as a department trust you not to be a jackass (because even though you are you will still act like pro during the interview)

Wait until next year when you're interviewing people or conducting the tour. For some people, acting like a pro during one interview day just seems to be too much.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes they can.

I have only been on the "other side" for this past interview season, and some of the things I've seen have left me completely confused. It shouldn't be *that* hard to hide your idiosyncrasies for an 8 hour day, but some people really just....can't.



Wait until next year when you're interviewing people or conducting the tour. For some people, acting like a pro during one interview day just seems to be too much.

And interestingly enough, that's in FM where the candidates should seemingly be a bit more normal than surgeons. 😀

 

[smq123]

And interestingly enough, that's in FM where the candidates should seemingly be a bit more normal than surgeons. 😀

That's what I thought, too! So disappointed. 😉 😛

 

[Doctor Bagel]

That's what I thought, too! So disappointed. 😉 😛

Any really good examples of bad behavior? I'm always curious about this stuff.

 

[Wustenfuchs]

Responding to this post is a waste of my time, money (if I had any) and integrity. But since no one else took the obvious bait, I will say it, grow up. Count yourself lucky that will (probably) have a job after finishing school. This is the process and it works.

wow...
So "growing up" means being content (if not grateful) with every piece of crap is being thrown at you...Hmmm... Interesting.
More than this, you're absolutely convinced and have no doubts whatsoever that the "process works".
Louisville KY? 100miles SW of Creation Museum? It kinda makes sense. Those guys have no doubts either.

 

[Fifty 3rds]

so a geographic location lumps someone into any "crazy" group within a 100 mile radius?

You are definitely the grown-up. 👍 Cheers.

 

[Wustenfuchs]

Discontent breeds progress.
The way he put it ("the system works fine" stop bitching about it) sounded pretty similar to the way religious people are content with whatever is thrown at them :"mysterious are god's ways".
I don't know if he's religious and I don't care. He sounded the way he sounded, he's from Kentucky, Creation Museum is in Kentucky, thought I could poke some fun at him...Was it fair? Probably not...

"crazy" group? They're INSANE.
I appreciate your political correctness though.
I've never claimed to be "grown up". I'm just defending my constitutional right to bitch about things...if it's ok with you...and I bet it is since you're a PC guy.

so a geographic location lumps someone into any "crazy" group within a 100 mile radius?

You are definitely the grown-up. 👍 Cheers.

 

[skiz knot]

he's from Kentucky, Creation Museum is in Kentucky, thought I could poke some fun at him...Was it fair? Probably not...

Not all people in a residency program are from the geographic area in which their program is located. Those that are, are not necessarily similar to the stereotyped image which you may have. As per your "joke,"

Was it funny?
Was it insightful?
Was it intelligent?
Was it appropriate?

Probably not...

Good luck to the program that gets to have you for the next 1-5 years.

"Es gibt keine verzweifelten Lagen, es gibt nur verzweifelte Menschen". (There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people).

 

[Wustenfuchs]

Facts:
1. You think I'm an idiot. Therefore, you eloquently explain me that even though X lives in Kentucky he may actually not be from there...(oh thanks, I finally got it...this was the bug feeding upon the validity of my syllogism)
2. You try to prove to this idiot you think I am that you're not an idiot and you took the time to google translate my signature (If I am really an idiot....what difference would it make?).

Conclusion?
1. You don't think I'm an idiot yet you're talking to me as if I am one. In this case it's very possible that you're quite well adapted to the system (just like the dinosaurs used to be😀) and you're annoyed by the fact that a "small mammal" like me dared to cast a doubt upon whatever you've striven so hard to adapt to. And here comes the best part: you condescendingly wish me "luck" with the program that gets to have me for 1-5 years. You imply I won't make it...This really put me down. What can I say...Caveman finesse! Bravo!
2. You think I'm an idiot, yet you're wasting yourself trying to prove me you're not. Again, if I was an idiot what I'd definitely recognize is a bigger idiot than myself rather than a non-idiot ...That makes you an oxymoron
3. You're none of the above...you merely were in a "chatty" mood. In this case "Thanks for sharing"!

Which one shall it be my dearest colleague?

 

[SLUser11]

Facts:
1. You think I'm an idiot. Therefore, you eloquently explain me that even though X lives in Kentucky he may actually not be from there...(oh thanks, I finally got it...this was the bug feeding upon the validity of my syllogism)
2. You try to prove to this idiot you think I am that you're not an idiot and you took the time to google translate my signature (If I am really an idiot....what difference would it make?).

Conclusion?
1. You don't think I'm an idiot yet you're talking to me as if I am one. In this case it's very possible that you're quite well adapted to the system (just like the dinosaurs used to be😀) and you're annoyed by the fact that a "small mammal" like me dared to cast a doubt upon whatever you've striven so hard to adapt to. And here comes the best part: you condescendingly wish me "luck" with the program that gets to have me for 1-5 years. You imply I won't make it...This really put me down. What can I say...Caveman finesse! Bravo!
2. You think I'm an idiot, yet you're wasting yourself trying to prove me you're not. Again, if I was an idiot what I'd definitely recognize is a bigger idiot than myself rather than a non-idiot ...That makes you an oxymoron
3. You're none of the above...you merely were in a "chatty" mood. In this case "Thanks for sharing"!

Which one shall it be my dearest colleague?

Nobody thinks you're an idiot. They just think you're annoying.

Don't get your panties in such a bunch. You sort of started it......

As for all the foreign language: once again, just sort of pretentious and annoying. However, I will have you know that I can say "I am your cheese head" in six different languages, which has proven quite useful in my medical career.......

 

[Wustenfuchs]

Nobody thinks you're an idiot. They just think you're annoying.

Don't get your panties in such a bunch. You sort of started it......

I don't care what they think.
I'm just amused by their sensitivity and self-righteous demeanor...It reflects strong christian values😀
Do you find your ability to say "I am your cheese head" in six languages "pretentious" and/or "annoying"? I personally don't but...

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I don't care what they think.
I'm just amused by their sensitivity and self-righteous demeanor...It reflects strong christian values😀
Do you find your ability to say "I am your cheese head" in six languages "pretentious" and/or "annoying"? I personally don't but...

Why the constant completely non-relevant slams on christianity?

 

[Wustenfuchs]

Why the constant completely non-relevant slams on christianity?

Are you offended?

 

[SLUser11]

Why the constant completely non-relevant slams on christianity?

Ignore the troll. I'm sure she thinks she's winning the argument.....let her have this small "win," you crazy christian.

 

[Wustenfuchs]

...pathetic!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Guys/gals/trolls/whatever...stop it.

Its ridiculous, annoying and idiotic.

 

[KingJamesX]

SO back to topic at hand, DOES anybody have any advise for landing the dream residency? I'm sure rotating through that hospital in M3 & M4 is helpful, but anybody have anything that worked for them at the interview that they would repeat again? If not, then let the name call begin 😴

 

[45408]

While the ebay-type story is pretty unusual, there are at least 2 people during every interview session we have who are completely unable to hide how crazy or unreasonable they are, despite being on their "best behavior." The interview sessions do help from the program side. You'll see next year when you are on the other side.

I went to one or two places that said they interview about 70 people and rank 60 of them. I'm guessing a few of them are the crazies. I ran into a few interesting characters on the interview trail, that's for sure.

 

[45408]

Any really good examples of bad behavior? I'm always curious about this stuff.

I did hear one really loud "That's what she said!" on an interview tour...

 

[hope79]

SO back to topic at hand, DOES anybody have any advise for landing the dream residency? I'm sure rotating through that hospital in M3 & M4 is helpful, but anybody have anything that worked for them at the interview that they would repeat again? If not, then let the name call begin

You don't even necessarily need to rotate at the hospital. It may help if you have your heart absolutely set on one particular place, but in general surgery, as opposed to plastics or ortho, it seems that doing an "away elective" is less necessary.

Just go through your MS3 year with a positive attitude...help residents as much as you can...dedicate yourself to patients...read about each patient and the case before you get into the OR. If you're efficient, multi-task, show interest and generally have a smile, you'll serve yourself well. And get to know your program director and the chairman. Set up a time to sit down and chat with them about your career goals in a casual manner. It'll help you when it's time to secure letters of recommendation.

 

[Wustenfuchs]

SO back to topic at hand, DOES anybody have any advise for landing the dream residency? I'm sure rotating through that hospital in M3 & M4 is helpful, but anybody have anything that worked for them at the interview that they would repeat again? If not, then let the name call begin 😴

Sire,
First one must find the "dream" spot. Assuming that he/she has already found it, the "problem" is not a problem anymore.
When the candidate rotates in the chosen clinic he/she should first determine who's the weakest link of that particular program. It is usually a fat, dumb, submissive non-categorical resident whose company is desired by none. He's pretty easy to spot. All that's required from the candidate is to show some interest in his existence. In return he'll spew everything he knows about the program: who's an *******, who's an idiot, who's a genius and lastly but not the least who's the most influential...
Now the candidate may proceed throwing him/herself on the market showing all his/her wonderful qualities and Sisyphean determination to the right person without the risk of wasting valuable energy and increasing his/her carbon footprint...
The idiot (if he's non-categorical) is useless therefore disposable. If he's categorical, he must be nurtured and kept friendly towards the candidate. Encouraging remarks and friendly behavior once or twice a week should do the job just fine...
Good luck Sire!

 

[SLUser11]

Sire,
First one must find the "dream" spot. Assuming that he/she has already found it, the "problem" is not a problem anymore.
When the candidate rotates in the chosen clinic he/she should first determine who's the weakest link of that particular program. It is usually a fat, dumb, submissive non-categorical resident whose company is desired by none. He's pretty easy to spot. All that's required from the candidate is to show some interest in his existence. In return he'll spew everything he knows about the program: who's an *******, who's an idiot, who's a genius and lastly but not the least who's the most influential...
Now the candidate may proceed throwing him/herself on the market showing all his/her wonderful qualities and Sisyphean determination to the right person without the risk of wasting valuable energy and increasing his/her carbon footprint...
The idiot (if he's non-categorical) is useless therefore disposable. If he's categorical, he must be nurtured and kept friendly towards the candidate. Encouraging remarks and friendly behavior once or twice a week should do the job just fine...
Good luck Sire!

Female Misterioso.

 

[PostLessOne]

But what if they know that you think that they are the weak one? What if they know that you know that they know, and they are actually setting you up for failure? Such schemes run the risk of being beaten by a more conniving schemer.

 

[Wustenfuchs]

But what if they know that you think that they are the weak one? What if they know that you know that they know, and they are actually setting you up for failure? Such schemes run the risk of being beaten by a more conniving schemer.

You don't know that I know,
You watch me every night
(...)
I get off on you
Getting off on me
Give you what you want
But nothing is for free
It's a give and take
Kinda life we make
When your line is crossed
I get off
I get off

http://www.onlylyrics.com/hits.php?grid=1&id=1032374

Scheme? The whole interview thing is a scheme!
If you want something you just take it...deserving has got nothing to do with it!...unless you're religious and you do not cheat, lie, steal, kill and above all, no doggy style in Oklahoma🙂

 

[ilikescut12]

The applicants lie just as much as the programs. We all get up there and sell ourselves saying we saved the world or found the cure for cancer. It's a 2-way street and it fills spots. In the end the match decides where we wind up anyway, we only have so much control.

 

[Wustenfuchs]

The applicants lie just as much as the programs. We all get up there and sell ourselves saying we saved the world or found the cure for cancer. It's a 2-way street and it fills spots. In the end the match decides where we wind up anyway, we only have so much control.

There's got to be an art, a skill, a talent to use so many words to say nothing.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Jesus Christ.

The point of interviewing is to indicate your interest in being ranked, and to prove you are able to talk to other humans like a human would. That's pretty much it.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Also, residency is a job. You really think you should be hired for a job without them actually getting to meet you or you them? You think other job interviews are all completely honest and uncensored? I just can't with this.

 

[LucidSplash]

You didn't have to with this. It's a 6-year-old post.

 

[Trauma Surgeon]

Yeah, kind of waste of time to read the whole post, and in the end finding that it is actually a 6 year old post (by LucidSplash)!!!
It would be nice if the OP could come back and tell the story of how things worked out for her, and if she is in a position to change the broken system or she has become part of it now.