Residency options as DO

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Coming out of an Osteopathic school can one obtain any specialty they desire considering they have solid step scores and extra curricular related to their specialties of interest. Can one get the competitive residencies as same chance as Allopathic? Like general surgery, ortho, anesthesia, and etc or are they at disadvantage trying to get those residencies from osteopathic school.
 
This is one of those thoroughly beaten to death topics. Look around to find dozens of threads addressing this question.

There are DOs in every specialty and some are harder than others to get into. The same goes for MD applicants. Some residencies are harder to get into than others -- for everyone.
 
J Senpai said:
This is one of those thoroughly beaten to death topics. Look around to find dozens of threads addressing this question.

There are DOs in every specialty and some are harder than others to get into. The same goes for MD applicants. Some residencies are harder to get into than others -- for everyone.
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For DO's which ones are harder to get into than others specifically?
 
Fuarky said:
For DO's which ones are harder to get into than others specifically?
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Not an expert on this topic, but here is what I've been generally seeing:

Easy: IM, FM, peds, psych, PM&R

Easy to medium: neurology, OBGYN, EM

Medium: general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology

Hard to virtually impossible: neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, ophtho, derm, urology, rad onc, ortho

Absolutely no idea: pathology
 
if you have the scores you will get whatever you want, if you apply broadly and wisely. hard competitive residencies are hard for everyone, MD and DO, thats why they are competitive
 
You can find these threads ALL OVER the place. You can get into ANY specialty if you have the scores, letters, and are qualified. The saying "It's not about the grades you make, but the hands you shake" really applies to this as well. Who you know can really help you gain a residency slot. General Surgery and Anesthesia aren't really "hard" to get into, either, since their are so many residency spots to fill.
 
Yeah, if you perform well on boards, rotations, classes and get involved while in school & get good LORs
 
- primary care

- primary care

-primary care

😀
 
WedgeDawg said:
Not an expert on this topic, but here is what I've been generally seeing:

Easy: IM, FM, peds, psych, PM&R

Easy to medium: neurology, OBGYN, EM

Medium: general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology

Hard to virtually impossible: neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, ophtho, derm, urology, rad onc, ortho

Absolutely no idea: pathology
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Pathology and radiology are both easy. Anesthesia is moving in that direction too.

I have a former classmate in residency at UCSF for pathology. Not the UCSF in Fresno that's full of DO's and IMG's, but the UCSF in San Fransisco that's one of the top 5 or so schools in the nation.
 
I really don't think ophtho is impossible for DOs. It might be harder, but it's not like trying to match acgme ENT or urology. I have no evidence for this, though.
 
WedgeDawg said:
Not an expert on this topic, but here is what I've been generally seeing:

Easy: IM, FM, peds, psych, PM&R

Easy to medium: neurology, OBGYN, EM

Medium: general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology

Hard to virtually impossible: neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, ophtho, derm, urology, rad onc, ortho

Absolutely no idea: pathology
Click to expand...


My school has matched people in optho programs at top 10 schools. Tons of ortho spots in the AOA match. For now its very get able. Wait till see what happens in the AOA match in 2020. Also my school matches GAS at some of the best programs in the country. No specialty is "virtually impossible" as we have alot of residencies.

Easy: IM (AOA, low tier MD), FM, peds, psych, PM&R

Easy to medium: neurology, OBGYN, EM

Medium: general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology, IM (mid tier)

Medium to Hard: ophtho, ortho (AOA), Pathology, Derm (AOA depending if your school has a program)

Hard : neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, derm, urology, rad onc, IM (high tier)
 
:beat: :bang::diebanana:

58381764.jpg
 
WedgeDawg said:
Not an expert on this topic, but here is what I've been generally seeing:

Easy: IM, FM, peds, psych, PM&R

Easy to medium: neurology, OBGYN, EM

Medium: general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology

Hard to virtually impossible: neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, ophtho, derm, urology, rad onc, ortho

Absolutely no idea: pathology
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, this would look the same for MD.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
My school has matched people in optho programs at top 10 schools. Tons of ortho spots in the AOA match. For now its very get able. Wait till see what happens in the AOA match in 2020. Also my school matches GAS at some of the best programs in the country. No specialty is "virtually impossible" as we have alot of residencies.

Easy: IM (AOA, low tier MD), FM, peds, psych, PM&R

Easy to medium: neurology, OBGYN, EM

Medium: general surgery, anesthesiology, radiology, IM (mid tier)

Medium to Hard: ophtho, ortho (AOA), Pathology, Derm (AOA depending if your school has a program)

Hard : neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, derm, urology, rad onc, IM (high tier)
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Hold on now. I've been seeing people post that many of the residencies will have merged by 2018 anyways so those competitive specialty AOA spots wont be available strictly to just DO students anymore.
 
Gandyy said:
Hold on now. I've been seeing people post that many of the residencies will have merged by 2018 anyways so those competitive specialty AOA spots wont be available strictly to just DO students anymore.
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Most likely they will favor DO students. Favoritism can go both ways.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Most likely they will favor DO students. Favoritism can go both ways.
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Idk, I'm adopting a pessimistic view and assuming MD's will get a lot of those spots so I'm not shocked later. I hope you are right.
 
Gandyy said:
Idk, I'm adopting a pessimistic view and assuming MD's will get a lot of those spots so I'm not shocked later. I hope you are right.
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Well its always best to prepare for a worst case scenrio but mine is more likely
 
Rekt said:
Oddly enough, this would look the same for MD.
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Except more than 5 MDs matched ACGME Neurosurgery. (I might be off by one or two)

An MD doesn't just grant you, say, a derm spot, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier.

Granted that's easier as in its easier to make the Olympic team than to get a gold medal.
 
SLC said:
I have a former classmate in residency at UCSF for pathology. Not the UCSF in Fresno that's full of DO's and IMG's, but the UCSF in San Fransisco that's one of the top 5 or so schools in the nation.
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The DO's and IMG who reside in this area take up most of the spots in Fam Med, Internal Medicine, Peds, and Psych. Every now and then, you'll catch a DO or even an IMG in the more competitive fields such for i.e. EM, Gen. Surgery or Ortho Surgery. Not always true, but those who fall under that category are from the area to begin with.
 
NoTownPreMed said:
The DO's and IMG who reside in this area take up most of the spots in Fam Med, Internal Medicine, Peds, and Psych. Every now and then, you'll catch a DO or even an IMG in the more competitive fields such for i.e. EM, Gen. Surgery or Ortho Surgery. Not always true, but those who fall under that category are from the area to begin with.
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What?
 
Fuarky said:
Coming out of an Osteopathic school can one obtain any specialty they desire considering they have solid step scores and extra curricular related to their specialties of interest. Can one get the competitive residencies as same chance as Allopathic? Like general surgery, ortho, anesthesia, and etc or are they at disadvantage trying to get those residencies from osteopathic school.
Click to expand...
The hell was wrong with the last thread about this that is still in the 10-15 most recent threads on this page?
 
NoTownPreMed said:
The DO's and IMG who reside in this area take up most of the spots in Fam Med, Internal Medicine, Peds, and Psych. Every now and then, you'll catch a DO or even an IMG in the more competitive fields such for i.e. EM, Gen. Surgery or Ortho Surgery. Not always true, but those who fall under that category are from the area to begin with.
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Idk what you are saying here. I am confused. Emergency Medicine is one of the most abundant DO specialties..General Surgery isn't competitive, either. Like I said, I am not sure what you are trying to convey here.
 
OrdinaryDO said:
Idk what you are saying here. I am confused. Emergency Medicine is one of the most abundant DO specialties..General Surgery isn't competitive, either. Like I said, I am not sure what you are trying to convey here.
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Sorry for not being clear. The message I'm trying to send out is that for programs like UCSF-Fresno, for residencies such as Peds, Internal Med, Fam. Med and Psych commonly take DO'S and IMG who have no geographical connection with the program. While EM is not considered a really competitive residency, the only DOs selected for the EM program were from the area. I know I'm stating the obvious, but where you come from may definitely benefit you with certain residency programs.
 
NoTownPreMed said:
Sorry for not being clear. The message I'm trying to send out is that for programs like UCSF-Fresno, for residencies such as Peds, Internal Med, Fam. Med and Psych commonly take DO'S and IMG who have no geographical connection with the program. While EM is not considered a really competitive residency, the only DOs selected for the EM program were from the area. I know I'm stating the obvious, but where you come from may definitely benefit you with certain residency programs.
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Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were specifying a university. That's where I misunderstood.
 
I was surprised to see a good amount of Ortho matches from my school, a few scattered urology/opthalmology acceptances, decent chunk of gen. surg, didn't see any derm or plastics this year.
 
Mjolner said:
Except more than 5 MDs matched ACGME Neurosurgery. (I might be off by one or two)

An MD doesn't just grant you, say, a derm spot, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier.

Granted that's easier as in its easier to make the Olympic team than to get a gold medal.
Click to expand...
Uh, and more than 5 DO's will match ACGME neurosurgery when the top DO students are required to enter the ACGME match instead of the AOA.

I work for a PD at one of the most historically DO "unfriendly" academic teaching hospitals in the country, in a very "unfriendly" DO specialty. We took our first couple of DO's this year and the PD has no qualms admitting that DO applications are becoming increasingly competitive. The DO's we have are admittedly excellent.

I think SDN is underestimating just how competitive many DO students are now-a-days. In my experience with DO students who rotate through, they all grind - and it's not just me who notices. I'm not saying there is no bias, but the merger is going to turn a lot of things upside down in my estimation.
 
IsWhat said:
Uh, and more than 5 DO's will match ACGME neurosurgery when the top DO students are required to enter the ACGME match instead of the AOA.

I work for a PD at one of the most historically DO "unfriendly" academic teaching hospitals in the country, in a very "unfriendly" DO specialty. We took our first couple of DO's this year and the PD has no qualms admitting that DO applications are becoming increasingly competitive. The DO's we have are admittedly excellent.

I think SDN is underestimating just how competitive many DO students are now-a-days. In my experience with DO students who rotate through, they all grind - and it's not just me who notices. I'm not saying there is no bias, but the merger is going to turn a lot of things upside down in my estimation.
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You're right. It was 7 last year. Per the latest JAMA issue, it says 7 (seven) of the 1315 neurosurgery residents last year were DOs. Sure it'll get better but I don't think that even if it tripled to a whopping 21 DOs it will matter. And that's not matching this year, that's currently serving as residents. So cut that number by seven and it's averaging 1 (one) DO in ACGME NSG programs. Aaaaaaaaand, I'm gonna bet he/she was a truly special snowflake AND knew someone with considerable influence.

I do hope what you say IS the way it will be going, but it isn't happening yet.
 
I know a plastic surgeon who is a DO. He admittedly scored in 99th percentile of USMLE, was top of his class and had multiple publications (and that still only landed him a fellowship after gen surgery). It is not wise to think that you will be that outlier. On the other hand, osteopathic residencies that are currently in place will be shut down and the rest open to MD students, so no the merger is not going to increase the number of DOs going into specialties. And did I ever mention that the program where my dermatologist trained is no longer accepting new students? Yeah, forget about Derm as a DO come 2020.
 
allantois said:
I know a plastic surgeon who is a DO. He admittedly scored in 99th percentile of USMLE, was top of his class and had multiple publications (and that still only landed him a fellowship after gen surgery). It is not wise to think that you will be that outlier. On the other hand, osteopathic residencies that are currently in place will be shut down and the rest open to MD students, so no the merger is not going to increase the number of DOs going into specialties. And did I ever mention that the program where my dermatologist trained is no longer accepting new students? Yeah, forget about Derm as a DO come 2020.
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Good thing not everyone wants to be a dermatologist.
 
Wonder what the residency options for DO med students will be in year 2020-2022 which will be sometime when us undergrads who make it onward will have to choose? Will it be impossible for DO's to get competitive residencies? The ones I am most interested in are orthopedics and general surgery. How they look at that time?
 
Fuarky said:
Wonder what the residency options for DO med students will be in year 2020-2022 which will be sometime when us undergrads who make it onward will have to choose? Will it be impossible for DO's to get competitive residencies? The ones I am most interested in are orthopedics and general surgery. How they look at that time?
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My head might explode. If you have the scores for ortho you will get it, regardless of MD or DO, if you don't have the score you won't.

Super competitive residencies at prestigious hospitals are hard for both MD and DO. They are hard for everyone. Plenty of DOs at high places.
 
Dustbowl12 said:
My head might explode. If you have the scores for ortho you will get it, regardless of MD or DO, if you don't have the score you won't.

Super competitive residencies at prestigious hospitals are hard for both MD and DO. They are hard for everyone. Plenty of DOs at high places.
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With all this talk about some merger going on in future that could effect DO residencies I was just wondering.
 
Fuarky said:
With all this talk about some merger going on in future that could effect DO residencies I was just wondering.
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It will not affect DO residency. it will make matters easier bc its one match system now and we don't have to pick between matches.
 
Dustbowl12 said:
My head might explode. If you have the scores for ortho you will get it, regardless of MD or DO, if you don't have the score you won't.

Super competitive residencies at prestigious hospitals are hard for both MD and DO. They are hard for everyone. Plenty of DOs at high places.
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No. You have to have BETTER scores as a DO and even then it can be a long shot.
 
Mjolner said:
No. You have to have BETTER scores as a DO and even then it can be a long shot.
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Do you realize there are countless AOA programs that are exclusive to DOs? What you are saying isn't even logical. We have ortho, gen surg, anesth, etc.

With the merger these residencies will still favor DO's. Not much will change outside of fact that the weaker AOA residencies will have to rise to the occasion, something that benefits all.
 
I have no credible opinion or knowledge of the merger, but holy **** are the opinions all across the board...the most accurate prediction is probably just that nobody knows.
 
Dustbowl12 said:
Do you realize there are countless AOA programs that are exclusive to DOs? What you are saying isn't even logical. We have ortho, gen surg, anesth, etc.

With the merger these residencies will still favor DO's. Not much will change outside of fact that the weaker AOA residencies will have to rise to the occasion, something that benefits all.
Click to expand...

Have you even looked at the program's applying for ACGME pre accreditation?
Most aren't applying for osteopathic focus or whatever they're calling it. And many are just closing because they can meet ACGME requirements.
I get that you're excited, I remember what it was like to be a premed, but you're wrong on this. Sorry.
 
Mjolner said:
Have you even looked at the program's applying for ACGME pre accreditation?
Most aren't applying for osteopathic focus or whatever they're calling it. And many are just closing because they can meet ACGME requirements.
I get that you're excited, I remember what it was like to be a premed, but you're wrong on this. Sorry.
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Doesn't matter if they aren't going for osteopathic focus, the programs that have historically taken DOs will continue to take DOs, those that have historically taken MD will still take MDs
 
really don't understand about much merger will effect residencies like ortho and general surgery in future? lot of mixed opinions and input. I would attend osteopathic if I can get general surgery or ortho residency with good score and everything without being at a disadvantage because of the merger. If not than just going to aim for allopathic.
 
Fuarky said:
really don't understand about much merger will effect residencies like ortho and general surgery in future? lot of mixed opinions and input. I would attend osteopathic if I can get general surgery or ortho residency with good score and everything without being at a disadvantage because of the merger. If not than just going to aim for allopathic.
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there are lot of AOA gen surg and ortho spots....after merger they will become open to MDs also, but they will not all of a sudden become MD friendly...
 
Dustbowl12 said:
Doesn't matter if they aren't going for osteopathic focus, the programs that have historically taken DOs will continue to take DOs, those that have historically taken MD will still take MDs
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False. There are many cases of programs switching from AOA to ACGME in the past and dropping DOs like a bad habit. This will likely continue with most programs with the merger.
 
Fuarky said:
really don't understand about much merger will effect residencies like ortho and general surgery in future? lot of mixed opinions and input. I would attend osteopathic if I can get general surgery or ortho residency with good score and everything without being at a disadvantage because of the merger. If not than just going to aim for allopathic.
Click to expand...

Then aim for allopathic. ACGME Ortho is a crazy long shot for DO.
 
Mjolner said:
False. There are many cases of programs switching from AOA to ACGME in the past and dropping DOs like a bad habit. This will likely continue with most programs with the merger.
Click to expand...

can you provide evidence for this? not saying you are wrong, but would help.
 
So based on my position someone who is highly interested in general surgery and ortho and wants to have good shot at getting either of those residencies with good scores and etc should I if I do not get accepted to any allopathic school and get accepted osteopathic attend the osteopathic school or work on my application till I get accepted to allopathic school?
 
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