residency pre-employment drug testing

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meno12

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does anyone know when these are typically performed? is it shortly after match day or more toward the end of June?

thanks
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meno12 said:
does anyone know when these are typically performed? is it shortly after match day or more toward the end of June?

thanks
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For my program, we did ours during intern orientation, which was mid-June. Can't speak for all programs out there, though.
 
Stop smoking up now. No point in taking any chances.
 
Do they do a urine test or hair follicle? I've heard that marijuana stays in your hair for like 3 years! 😀 Anyone knows of a program that tests hair follicles before residency?
 
most routine pre-employment drug tests are a urine screen. just put down the bong for a few weeks and you'll be OK.
 
There is going to be an increase in drug and alcohol tests at all levels of medical training. Stamping out any drug use by medical students is becoming a policy priority.
 
Neuronix said:
Oddly, mine did. One guy shaved his whole body :laugh:
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You're joking, right? I have a really hard time believing that a program would do a hair test. Isn't that super expensive? Unless they've had major issues with drug use in the past or are just super paranoid...
 
medicine12 said:
Do they do a urine test or hair follicle? I've heard that marijuana stays in your hair for like 3 years! 😀 Anyone knows of a program that tests hair follicles before residency?
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Hair follicle is usually 3-4 months. Stop smoking now and you will be fine.
 
thesauce said:
I doubt any do hair follicle testing. No one cares that much.
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only the youngest inch of hair would yield testable compounds
therefore, generally speaking, one should stop all illegal substance abuse 3 months prior to any drug screening (i'm just watching over you guys, i don't want any of my potential future colleagues to be fired due to drug charges)


learned about it this week from a correction center officer (doing a forensic psych elective)
 
rad0nc said:
Hair follicle is usually 3-4 months. Stop smoking now and you will be fine.
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Testing gets more sophisticated every year. What seems like you can avoid with 3-4 months of being clean currently, might require a lengthier delay next time you take a job that requires testing. Its not inconceivable that down the road, some testable physiologic change will be identified that sticks with you for a much longer duration. The smart move is to quit at the earliest juncture, not try to time your last high.
 
St Lukes in PA has a zero tolerance policy for smoking and tests staff for the presence of nicotine in their urine. No cigars, patches, or gums. Period.

I am generally against recreational drug use but I have a philosophical problem with much of this. As L2D points out, I can see a future where tests may be able to detect drug use for many months or even years at a time and I too see a slippery slope where this information could be held over your head. Had a close friend who tested positive for amphetamines once. They retested him and sent the original for GC.In the end both came back negative but the damage to his job had been done. He had to submit urine tests nearly monthly after that and ended up quitting over the environment.
 
Law2Doc said:
Testing gets more sophisticated every year. What seems like you can avoid with 3-4 months of being clean currently, might require a lengthier delay next time you take a job that requires testing. Its not inconceivable that down the road, some testable physiologic change will be identified that sticks with you for a much longer duration. The smart move is to quit at the earliest juncture, not try to time your last high.
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It is not the sophistication of the test that determines the 3-4 month timeline, but how it is implimented. They only look at the newest 1.5 inches of your hair. Otherwise for people with long hair it could detect for years.

Totally agree with stopping asap though. IMHO it isn't worth getting high if you have to jeopardize your career.
 
danzman said:
St Lukes in PA has a zero tolerance policy for smoking and tests staff for the presence of nicotine in their urine. No cigars, patches, or gums.
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That's pretty crazy. If a hospital considers one legal drug unacceptable, then why not another - like alcohol or caffeine?
 
colbgw02 said:
That's pretty crazy. If a hospital considers one legal drug unacceptable, then why not another - like alcohol or caffeine?
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A couple places I interviewed at this past fall had similar policies. One place actually made us all sign a tobacco-free agreement that gives everyone 90 days to quit smoking or they'll be terminated. Based on what I've heard, it's a matter of creating a healthier environment for patients and staff as well as the image we portray. How can you counsel a patient to stop smoking if you smell like cigarettes yourself? Same goes for fat doctors. Do you trust a fat doctor as much as a thin (and therefore seemingly healthier) doctor to make the right decisions about your health? Just something to think about.
 
wannabeOBGYN said:
Same goes for fat doctors. Do you trust a fat doctor as much as a thin (and therefore seemingly healthier) doctor to make the right decisions about your health?
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Yeah, actually, because as I recall the people who were the screw ups in my med school class, they were all thin, and some of the best people in the class were chubby folks. If you are under the impression that someone's weight has any bearing on their knowledge or competence, then you probably have no business trying to counsel fat people because you're probably just going to be one of the doctors who cause fat people to avoid doctors so they don't feel embarrassed or lectured.
While this is not the first time I've heard the argument that a smoking doctor is a hypocrite, I can also see an argument that people might be more likely to listen to a doctor that they know can empathize with their struggles to lose weight or stop smoking than a doctor who comes across as a judgmental goody two shoes who has no clue about what it's like to fight tobacco cravings or how hard it is to start an exercise program if your joints ache from being morbidly obese.

(I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you personally. This issue just annoys me because #1 I feel it's an invasion of privacy to test employees for tobacco when at this point it's not illegal to smoke tobacco and #2 I have seen from family members how some doctors act like total jerks to fat people, how it makes some fat people feel afraid to even seek medical care, and I think it is extremely harmful and cruel when doctors have prejudices against fat people - as if fat people are willfully choosing to be fat just for kicks or just out of spite. If losing weight were easy for everyone, then it wouldn't be so hard to develop a safe and effective diet pill.)
 
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peppy said:
Yeah, actually, because as I recall the people who were the screw ups in my med school class, they were all thin, and some of the best people in the class were chubby folks. If you are under the impression that someone's weight has any bearing on their knowledge or competence, then you probably have no business trying to counsel fat people because you're probably just going to be one of the doctors who cause fat people to avoid doctors so they don't feel embarrassed or lectured.
While this is not the first time I've heard the argument that a smoking doctor is a hypocrite, I can also see an argument that people might be more likely to listen to a doctor that they know can empathize with their struggles to lose weight or stop smoking than a doctor who comes across as a judgmental goody two shoes who has no clue about what it's like to fight tobacco cravings or how hard it is to start an exercise program if your joints ache from being morbidly obese.

(I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you personally. This issue just annoys me because #1 I feel it's an invasion of privacy to test employees for tobacco when at this point it's not illegal to smoke tobacco and #2 I have seen from family members how some doctors act like total jerks to fat people, how it makes some fat people feel afraid to even seek medical care, and I think it is extremely harmful and cruel when doctors have prejudices against fat people - as if fat people are willfully choosing to be fat just for kicks or just out of spite. If losing weight were easy for everyone, then it wouldn't be so hard to develop a safe and effective diet pill.)
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I didn't say I thought fat doctors are not as good as thin doctors, I was just posing it as a question. One of the best doctors I rotated with so far was obese and that had no bearing on my thoughts about his abilities. I have seen the harm done by doctors who treat fat patients poorly. As a second year student I worked in a family physician's office 1-2 afternoons a month with a friend and he constantly berated patients who were overweight to the point that many of them became teary-eyed or cried. I think these rules are starting to pop up because a lot of people feel physicians are supposed to be role models and they probably think we would be more effective if we were thinner/didn't smoke/etc., rather than the "do as I say, not as I do" style they assume people use if they're overweight or smokers.
 
wannabeOBGYN said:
A couple places I interviewed at this past fall had similar policies. One place actually made us all sign a tobacco-free agreement that gives everyone 90 days to quit smoking or they'll be terminated. Based on what I've heard, it's a matter of creating a healthier environment for patients and staff as well as the image we portray. How can you counsel a patient to stop smoking if you smell like cigarettes yourself? Same goes for fat doctors. Do you trust a fat doctor as much as a thin (and therefore seemingly healthier) doctor to make the right decisions about your health? Just something to think about.
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It's actually less about the hypocrisy and more about decreasing employee medical costs. Cleveland Clinic and Moffitt Cancer center are two such institutions doing it.
 
danzman said:
St Lukes in PA has a zero tolerance policy for smoking and tests staff for the presence of nicotine in their urine. No cigars, patches, or gums. Period.

I am generally against recreational drug use but I have a philosophical problem with much of this. As L2D points out, I can see a future where tests may be able to detect drug use for many months or even years at a time and I too see a slippery slope where this information could be held over your head. Had a close friend who tested positive for amphetamines once. They retested him and sent the original for GC.In the end both came back negative but the damage to his job had been done. He had to submit urine tests nearly monthly after that and ended up quitting over the environment.
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What if your family member is a smoker?
 
mlw03 said:
What if your family member is a smoker?
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Not sure. I know that the cutoff level for MJ is set low enough that labs claim that you would have to be stuck in a closet with multiple smokers for hours at a time to ever test positive. My guess is that the nicotine test is similar. Either way, we present just another reason why this is so silly.
 
Do any programs do drug urine tests during residency interviews in the fall? I am asking this as a lot of the drugs a standard drug panel tests for are legitimate prescription drugs. I just had a surgery on my spine and if let's say I get tested I would have to prove that I was prescribed a pain medication for a legitimate purpose, so I would have to get a letter from my doctor confirming this but I am just wondering whether this is something I should even worry about doing or are the drug tests (if done at all) done right before July 1st start date or can they occur at interviews?
 
MaliOMali said:
Do any programs do drug urine tests during residency interviews in the fall? I am asking this as a lot of the drugs a standard drug panel tests for are legitimate prescription drugs. I just had a surgery on my spine and if let's say I get tested I would have to prove that I was prescribed a pain medication for a legitimate purpose, so I would have to get a letter from my doctor confirming this but I am just wondering whether this is something I should even worry about doing or are the drug tests (if done at all) done right before July 1st start date or can they occur at interviews?
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You won't get piss tested at the interview. If you do, you need to turn around and get back on the plane and get the hell out of wherever you are as fast as you can.

And if you are currently under treatment (or were recently) with a drug that will show up on a drug screen, you need to disclose that and provide documentation at the time of the test, NOT when it comes back positive.
 
gutonc said:
You won't get piss tested at the interview. If you do, you need to turn around and get back on the plane and get the hell out of wherever you are as fast as you can.

And if you are currently under treatment (or were recently) with a drug that will show up on a drug screen, you need to disclose that and provide documentation at the time of the test, NOT when it comes back positive.
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OK, thank you that answers my question. I was essentially concerned about what you said, that you need to provide documentation if you are taking a prescription drug that is being tested for when you hand in your sample. However, if like you said it is unlikely that a drug screen is done at interviews, then I have no need to get any documentation as by next June I will not be taking any medications.
 
MaliOMali said:
OK, thank you that answers my question. I was essentially concerned about what you said, that you need to provide documentation if you are taking a prescription drug that is being tested for when you hand in your sample. However, if like you said it is unlikely that a drug screen is done at interviews, then I have no need to get any documentation as by next June I will not be taking any medications.
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It is not unlikely that you are drug tested at the interview... it is zero likely. I've never heard of this happening and would seriously wonder at a programs motivations if they tried.
 
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