Residency training credit?

[koikisi]

I was wondering, if someone does less than 12 months of Residency training at a place and resigns/leaves/terminated etc. up to how many months of training can the person obtain credit for towards another program if he/she ever starts somewhere else later on down the road?

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[gutonc]

I was wondering, if someone does less than 12 months of Residency training at a place and resigns/leaves/terminated etc. up to how many months of training can the person obtain credit for towards another program if he/she ever starts somewhere else later on down the road?

They can get credit for as many months as they put in previously. But it is at the discretion of the new PD.

So the practical answer to your question is zero.

 

[koikisi]

They can get credit for as many months as they put in previously. But it is at the discretion of the new PD.

So the practical answer to your question is zero.

Ok, but do the months that were previously done in the prior program need to be certified/approved by the old PD or not? I know when you transfer there is a requirement saying that you did 1 year in good standing, for you to get your license, etc.

Let's say the new PD gives credit for how many X months you did, is that enough?

 

[Smurfette]

Your old PD will have to confirm how many months/rotations you successfully completed, but your new PD can give you credit for as many or as few of those months as they feel is appropriate. Assume if you don't even complete a full year and then proceed to take 1+ years off altogether, your prior months won't count toward a new program. However, they will always need to be reported for licensing and privileging purposes.

 

[koikisi]

Your old PD will have to confirm how many months/rotations you successfully completed, but your new PD can give you credit for as many or as few of those months as they feel is appropriate. Assume if you don't even complete a full year and then proceed to take 1+ years off altogether, your prior months won't count toward a new program. However, they will always need to be reported for licensing and privileging purposes.

Ok this makes sense to me. Can my old PD refuse to give me credit for off service rotations (Medicine, Neuro and EM)--eventhough the attendings who evaluate me for those rotations are from other programs?

 

[gutonc]

Ok this makes sense to me. Can my old PD refuse to give me credit for off service rotations (Medicine, Neuro and EM)--eventhough the attendings who evaluate me for those rotations are from other programs?

You are, as is typical for this type of question, completely missing the point. It really doesn't matter what your old PD gives you credit for. I mean, sure, it's nice to get credit for everything you did...yay you!

But any PD who picks you up is likely to give you, at most, credit for half of what you completed. And more likely, nothing. So stop getting worked up about what your prior PD will do. S/He could give you credit for 2.5 years out of a 3 year residency. But a PD in a new program could decide to give you 6 months credit.

And your options are either take it or, "I've got a 4 shot half-decaf skim pumpkin spice cappuccino for Jen".

 

[Smurfette]

Ok this makes sense to me. Can my old PD refuse to give me credit for off service rotations (Medicine, Neuro and EM)--eventhough the attendings who evaluate me for those rotations are from other programs?

The identity or affiliations of attendings evaluating you is completely irrelevant as to whether either PD will or will not give you credit. And in case you were thinking of this as a work-around, if your old PD won't give you credit for something, there is a 0% chance your new PD will give you credit for it.

 

[Crayola227]

Entirely at your current PD's whim first of all.

Then the second PD's whim 2nd of all.

The more interesting question is, if you are promoted to 2nd yr by the current PD, and leave, does that mean they have to forever and always sign off that first year?

(Although OP, you should know that even having an entire year signed off could still be counted as ZERO months in another program if it is a different specialty. Within the same specialty, the next PD is not likely to count a whole year signed off by the old PD as a big fat zero, but it is not a guaranteed 1 to 1 ratio. And you can certainly have to repeat rotations you already did.)

Residency must be treated as an all or nothing game. It is not college. There are no credits that transfer in that sense.

Sure, in this all or nothing game people walk away and go somewhere else and it isn't always A TOTAL loss, but it is always AT a loss. Get it?

Assume if you don't finish the year you get NOTHING but a shiv in the kidney. Assume if you finish the year AND transfer under the sweetest of sweetheart deals that you will be extending the length of your training at best.

Got it?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, it is the bitterest of pills, and I know that I don't have to convince you that the system is complete insanity, you being an intern is proving that to you daily, but still, you must accept this harsh reality.

There are stories of people being cut month 11 and PD signs off on nada.

Your current PD is basically the closest to your life's personal buddha jesus hitler god figure of existence, an avalanche waiting to bury you, your only source of career redemption.

One of my past posts on resident resignation/dismissal/termination goes into exquisite detail the ways that you and current and former PDs interact.

 

[Crayola227]

The only thing that attending might count for in your proposed scenario is an LOR, but again, I would count on that like a raft in a hurricane.

 

[mcl]

The more interesting question is, if you are promoted to 2nd yr by the current PD, and leave, does that mean they have to forever and always sign off that first year?

Yes. Anywhere that you trained, no matter how briefly, will have to complete verification paperwork for licensure and credentialing.

 

[IMPD]

Entirely at your current PD's whim first of all.

Then the second PD's whim 2nd of all.

The more interesting question is, if you are promoted to 2nd yr by the current PD, and leave, does that mean they have to forever and always sign off that first year?

Pretty sure that is true. When we promote anyone to PGY2, we are signing off on their PGY1 year. ABIM and GME Track have to correlate to Resident's training position.

 

[Crayola227]

What I should say, was, could they sign off on it when you left, every time it came up after, and then 10 years from now, just decide not to give you credit and not sign off for some reason? It seems weird. Like, if you're going to say they have to sign every time, then it begs my question of what if they don't sign off? The records lost? They die? They decide after promoting you to third year that you now leave that they won't sign off on year 1? I've heard rumors of this being an issue in the future, but really, it seems like at some point no one would question your successful completion of a year of training, but would merely be confirming it.

Is this so if 10 years from now the PD decides based on upon further chart review and attending eval that I IDIDN'T really satifactorily complete NF month intern year and need remediation, that he won't sign off on the year anymore?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate in the extreme, I'm just wondering if there is some point that you are signed off and boarded that "credit" doesn't disappear. Maybe my med school exam 10 years from now is re-graded and it wasn't fraud just something they missed, and now my diploma doesn't count?