Residency With vs Without Fellows

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DeadCactus

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For those interested in a competitive fellowship are you better off in a program that offers that fellowship or in a program with no fellows and lots of 1 on 1 time with the attending? Does the pro/con balance change if you are a weaker applicant going into residency?

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Honestly, I don't have a clue anymore. There are quite a few pros and cons for both. I'm interested in fellowship myself and I always thought I'd like a large department in my speciality of choice to see all the cool cases and get lots of exposure, but now I realize that there are just as many perks to smaller more intimate departments.

One of my friends put it in an interesting way (he is going into fellowship next year) - if you go to a program where there are fellows you'll probably learn what it takes to be a good fellow, but you may not get as much hands on, one-on-one exposure to the attending and patients. On the other hand, if there are no fellows, the attendings will know you all the better, you'll get 1-on-1 teaching and you'll probably be stronger in the clinical setting.

Maybe a little oversimplified but, again, just one way to look at it from a different angle.

I would say if you go to a smaller program with no fellows I'd make sure to meet some of the speciality faculty that you are interested in to see if these are people you can imagine getting along well with and getting letters from them. Are they doing research in an area that you are interested in? Does the service see enough pts? It would be terrible to be at a program where you find that you don't get along with the 2-3 attendings that run that service. In a big program you are more likely to find someone you really click with.

I also have trouble discerning how much program reputation will factor into fellowship placement.

More questions than I have answers, but thanks for bringing up this topic!
 
Here's my view:

1. Big program = higher acuity, more "cool" procedures
2. Big program = more research opportunities

1. Small program = get to know faculty better, possibly easier to get good letters of rec
2. Small program = better training/exposure when on call at night because the resident gets all the calls instead of the fellow (some big programs have policies in place to mitigate this effect)
 
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Grappling with this myself. I'd love to hear from fellowship directors and sub-specialists (even if it is second hand information from other applicants/residents who've asked).

The paradigm I'm working under is, in reality, you alone are ultimately responsible for being a good applicant for fellowship, not your faculty, and you need to choose the environment that allows you to learn what you think is important to make you stand out. Fellowships are 18-24 months of research time so you're going to need to get exposure to that, and competitive fellowships in peds seems to be a big game of who-knows whom, how well do you get along with your potential fellow subspecialists, so you'd be served working with at least a few different faculty in the field your interested in, who are connected to a few different training programs.

The fact that there is no "one-best" type of program it is epitomized by the programs' success over previous fellowship matches. Univ. of Arizona's peds program has matched four people in Cardiology over the last 2 years, despite only having 16 residents per class. Wash U I think has matched 2-3 over the last two years, and they have a much larger class, higher volume, more research, and abundant faculty from all over.

That's not to say you'd be better served going to Arizona, and certainly not to say small programs are always better. If the program doesn't have fellows, it's probably prudent to ask why. American Family Children's Hospital/Wisconsin actually is in the process of starting a fellowship program, just finished the process of hiring faculty, and is developing the curriculum/filing the paperwork. Arizona has enough faculty and volume for a fellowship, I think there's just not an institutional push for more fellowships to distinguish themselves from Phoenix Children's (also I don't think many of the peds cardiology faculty do basic science research, that may also limit their ability to attract fellows). I have interviewed at other similarly sized programs where the reason there are no fellows is a lack of teaching interest in the faculty, money problems, inadequate patient population or too small a cardiology division which, to me, are red flags.

So try and look ahead, and anticipate what type of applicant you are going to be. Do you want to emphasize your research? Then you better be looking at finding enough faculty with research interest similar to yours to ensure at least a couple have room in their schedule for you. Do you want to emphasize community outreach? Then you better go someplace that supports projects in that arena during your training. Do you plan on going into private practice or want to emphasize you work well and have proficient technical skills? Then you'd be better served going somewhere where faculty are open to having you in the cath lab (which seems to be the small programs with no fellows).
 
This is definitely an area I'm interested in. For me, I've always liked smaller programs with less fellows and being allowed to have more hands on experience with procedures is important. However, larger programs definitely offer more attendings with more research opportunities. I still can't decide...
 
I think you should take a couple things into consideration:

1- Big or small, fellows or none, you need to go to a place that sees the types of patients that you want to see. For instance, if you go to a program that transfers out every sick DKA, and you want to go into endocrine, or if you go somewhere that refers all congenital heart disease and you want to go into cardiology, you might not get enough exposure to truly know if that's what you want to do with your life and may not get the best subspecialty letters for fellowship. Other things I've seen are small community programs that don't have their own PICU, so their residents do PICU rotations at other programs or hospitals. In these cases, those residents are not usually favored by the programs they're visiting and probably won't be able to get great letters from PICU ppl, no matter how good they are.

2- What kind of learner are you? If you are like me and need to learn from hands-on experience rather than reading, you need to go to at least a medium sized program or else it will be very hard to learn just from reading. I went to a medium sized program with 19-20 residents per year and was able to learn a ton from patients with limited time spent reading. We matched 6 residents into cardiology during my match year.
 
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