Residency?

[Doctor_Proctor]

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What are the chances of a DO matching into a surgery specialty like Cardiothoracics, Neurosurgery, General Surgery. And how does this change with the merger of combined DO/MD programs. Speculating your step 1 scores are good.

 

[Bobcat18]

Dude / Dudette, use the search function.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not great. Please do a search.

 

[Jinxapotato]

What are the chances of a DO matching into a surgery specialty like Cardiothoracics, Neurosurgery, General Surgery. And how does this change with the merger of combined DO/MD programs. Speculating your step 1 scores are good.

Gen. Surg is the only one that is plausible to match into (out of those 3), and it's considered a harder match than most non-surgical specialties.
If you are dead set on surgery you might wanna do MD route.
But then 80% of my class said they wanna do derm/ophtho/neurosurg on first year, then all of a sudden 60% of them got interested in family medicine after board score came back.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Gen. Surg is the only one that is plausible to match into (out of those 3), and it's considered a harder match than most non-surgical specialties.
If you are dead set on surgery you might wanna do MD route.
But then 80% of my class said they wanna do derm/ophtho/neurosurg on first year, then all of a sudden 60% of them got interested in family medicine after board score came back.

Its the circle of DO.
Interview "I just wanna do rural primary care"
1st 2 years "Primary care sucks, I am gonna do surgery/rads and not have to deal with midlevels"
Dedicated 2 weeks prior to boards: Unenroll from USMLE d/t low predicted score on NBME
Board Scores less than 500: 'You know I haven't given family med a fair shake"
Match day: "I always wanted FM, I wanna have a life, and surgery is too hard. I can do basically anything as a family doc."

***disclaimer: not serious, I know this isn't how everyone goes.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Match day: "I always wanted FM, I wanna have a life, and surgery is too hard."

Lol, at my school this happens way before match day. Some people do this after they are barely passing classes first semester

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Lol, at my school this happens way before match day. Some people do this after they are barely passing classes first semester

7-0 still makes DO. And as long as it does I will keep trucking 😛

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

7-0 still makes DO. And as long as it does I will keep trucking 😛

Tru dat. One of the biggest reasons I went into medicine is that rural FM sounds way more interesting to me than accounting or computer programming. If rural FM is the “worst” thing that can happen to me then hell I’ll take that any day of the week.

 

[Doctor_Proctor]

Its the circle of DO.
Interview "I just wanna do rural primary care"
1st 2 years "Primary care sucks, I am gonna do surgery/rads and not have to deal with midlevels"
Dedicated 2 weeks prior to boards: Unenroll from USMLE d/t low predicted score on NBME
Board Scores less than 500: 'You know I haven't given family med a fair shake"
Match day: "I always wanted FM, I wanna have a life, and surgery is too hard. I can do basically anything as a family doc."

***disclaimer: not serious, I know this isn't how everyone goes.

What do you think of plastic surgery as a D.O. Has anyone hear of it and how hard is it for someone to match for a plastics residency as a D.O

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

Lol, at my school this happens way before match day. Some people do this after they are barely passing classes first semester

LOL just wait until people start preparing for boards during 2nd semester of OMS-II.
Students that were saying "I want to do ortho/rads/IM/surgery/etc" suddenly start crying "I barely passed an NBME" or "my UWorld average is 40%" or "I don't care about my score; I just want to pass."
People really underestimate during OMS-I/II just how hard it is to do well on boards and get into anything even moderately competitive.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What do you think of plastic surgery as a D.O. Has anyone hear of it and how hard is it for someone to match for a plastics residency as a D.O

Plastics might be the most competitive field in medicine right now. Maybe one or two DOs do it a year. Sometimes 0.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Tru dat. One of the biggest reasons I went into medicine is that rural FM sounds way more interesting to me than accounting or computer programming. If rural FM is the “worst” thing that can happen to me then hell I’ll take that any day of the week.

Ride that wave while we can. 10 years from now rural FM might be the only ones with their own practices.

What do you think of plastic surgery as a D.O. Has anyone hear of it and how hard is it for someone to match for a plastics residency as a D.O

1. Are you a very attractive female with a high board score? If so last years match list from Lecom might give you hope!
2. If the answer to one is no or just high board score, not looking good.

Edit: Pun not intended, but totally appropriate.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Lol, at my school this happens way before match day. Some people do this after they are barely passing classes first semester

yup, you get the big surge in interest right around July of 2nd year, it's like something magical happened 3 weeks after their board that people suddenly want to build long lasting relationship with their patients....serve in rural community...etc etc.

 

[Jinxapotato]

What do you think of plastic surgery as a D.O. Has anyone hear of it and how hard is it for someone to match for a plastics residency as a D.O

If you use pain scale: 10/10
Honestly tho, don't start dreaming about some crazy specialty before even starting medical school. Get in, finish year 1, and see where do you stand among your peers. Usually you'll end up somewhere around that percentile on board. Then you figure out what specialty is available to you with that board score...
You don't just "speculate your step 1 is good" - by definition around half of medical students fall below average, which will automatically exclude you from anything that you've mentioned (ok maybe not gen surg). I can guarantee that from day 1 not a single medical student expects themselves to be "below average", but the sad truth is that SOMEBODY will have to be down there, so how do you know who's that somebody without even starting the school?
So stop asking is it possible IF. Get to 3rd year with your board score, then ask is it possible WITH.

 

[SurgeDO]

I am a DO in neurosurgery. It was very challenging to match neurosurgery, but it was possible. You need to be twice as competitive of an applicant as your MD colleagues.

While matching was challenging, I am truly appreciative of my education. Having to work so hard during medical school has made me well-prepared for residency.

 

[68PGunner]

Its the circle of DO.
Interview "I just wanna do rural primary care"
1st 2 years "Primary care sucks, I am gonna do surgery/rads and not have to deal with midlevels"
Dedicated 2 weeks prior to boards: Unenroll from USMLE d/t low predicted score on NBME
Board Scores less than 500: 'You know I haven't given family med a fair shake"
Match day: "I always wanted FM, I wanna have a life, and surgery is too hard. I can do basically anything as a family doc."
***disclaimer: not serious, I know this isn't how everyone goes.

Nah, I can see it already happening. I see so many students running around me, fapping to their in class exams and saying that they want to do this and that surgical specialty. Yet, they get real silent when the Kaplan Qbank average comes up.

 

[HueySmith]

Lol, DO students matching neurosurgery and cardiothoracic surgery, you talking like we still had DO reserved surgical residencies! Ain't nobody is going to match into those specialties come 2020, baby.

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Its the circle of DO.
Interview "I just wanna do rural primary care"
1st 2 years "Primary care sucks, I am gonna do surgery/rads and not have to deal with midlevels"
Dedicated 2 weeks prior to boards: Unenroll from USMLE d/t low predicted score on NBME
Board Scores less than 500: 'You know I haven't given family med a fair shake"
Match day: "I always wanted FM, I wanna have a life, and surgery is too hard. I can do basically anything as a family doc."

***disclaimer: not serious, I know this isn't how everyone goes.

LOLs! Thought this was just a thing at my school

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Lol, DO students matching neurosurgery and cardiothoracic surgery, you talking like we still had DO reserved surgical residencies! Ain't nobody is going to match into those specialties come 2020, baby.

Just a little data here: For the 2017 match there were 8 total surgical sub matches in the NRMP match.

2 neurosurgery
1 plastics
3 ortho
1 vascular
1 ENT

There were 64 categorical general surgery matches.

They don’t break down pgy2 spots by applicant type so we can’t see how many matched fields like Derm or integrated IR, of which I know a few.

The top 5 most common matches fields for DO applicants was
IM
FM
Peds
EM
Anesthesia

For MD graduates they were:
IM
Peds
EM
FM

So the most matched fields by both groups is actually really similar.

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

There were 64 categorical general surgery matches.

This is a misleading stat as it includes PGY-1/2 prelims who transitioned into a categorical program. The national number of graduating DO seniors that entered into a categorical surgery program straight out was about 35-40.

 

[COQueen]

-

 

[COQueen]

This is a misleading stat as it includes PGY-1/2 prelims who transitioned into a categorical program. The national number of graduating DO seniors that entered into a categorical surgery program straight out was about 35-40.

Your posts are always really cheerful and upbringing.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This is a misleading stat as it includes PGY-1/2 prelims who transitioned into a categorical program. The national number of graduating DO seniors that entered into a categorical surgery program straight out was about 35-40.

I think you’re wrong here. They would not be in the NRMP data if they transitioned, they would only be there if they re-entered the match and matched a categorical pgy-1 spot. Pgy-2 spots are found outside the match.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I know that (at least) 2/8 had to take a research year before matching.

Seeing as a lot of MD students take research years to match these specialties i’m not surprised.

 

[HueySmith]

Just a little data here: For the 2017 match there were 8 total surgical sub matches in the NRMP match.

2 neurosurgery
1 plastics
3 ortho
1 vascular
1 ENT

There were 64 categorical general surgery matches.

They don’t break down pgy2 spots by applicant type so we can’t see how many matched fields like Derm or integrated IR, of which I know a few.

The top 5 most common matches fields for DO applicants was
IM
FM
Peds
EM
Anesthesia

For MD graduates they were:
IM
Peds
EM
FM

So the most matched fields by both groups is actually really similar.

Wow, 8 students out of ~4000 DO students. Significant.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Wow, 8 students out of ~4000 DO students. Significant.

That’s the issue though. We need to know how many actually applied and what their apps looked like to really determine what ones chances are

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

I think you’re wrong here. They would not be in the NRMP data if they transitioned, they would only be there if they re-entered the match and matched a categorical pgy-1 spot. Pgy-2 spots are found outside the match.

-_-
The term "outside the match" is actually a misnomer. Programs may fill open spots "outside the match" but everything still gets processed through the NRMP*. (The program would show up as unfilled on the NRMP but they would not be conducting interviews, etc.).
If you are in a prelim surgery program, you re-enter the match with the goal to get into ("transition" into) a categorical spot (most often as a 1st-year resident, even though you would be a PGY-2). If you don't get into a categorical slot, you do another prelim year (if your institution allows it) or switch into another specialty altogether.
If there are open PGY-2 slots in categorical programs, you, again, go through the NRMP to try to get into that slot (although this rarely actually happens because programs usually fill those very rare open PGY-2 slots internally but it still has to go through NRMP).

The 64 number includes OMS-IV seniors who got into a categorical program and prelim students who re-entered the match and got into a categorical program. Thus, if you do some rough math from unofficial published match lists (which are never fully accurate, btw), one would see that about 35-40 osteopathic seniors matched into a categorical ACGME surgery program and about 15-20 DOs in preliminary surgery programs were able to get into a categorical program.


* Fun fact, historically, the scramble was the only match "event" that was done outside the NRMP but that was discontinued in 2010 and replaced with the SOAP, which is now also regulated by the NRMP.

 

[Eagles6389]

-_-
The term "outside the match" is actually a misnomer. Programs may fill open spots "outside the match" but everything still gets processed through the NRMP*. (The program would show up as unfilled on the NRMP but they would not be conducting interviews, etc.).
If you are in a prelim surgery program, you re-enter the match with the goal to get into ("transition" into) a categorical spot (most often as a 1st-year resident, even though you would be a PGY-2). If you don't get into a categorical slot, you do another prelim year (if your institution allows it) or switch into another specialty altogether.
If there are open PGY-2 slots in categorical programs, you, again, go through the NRMP to try to get into that slot (although this rarely actually happens because programs usually fill those very rare open PGY-2 slots internally but it still has to go through NRMP).

The 64 number includes OMS-IV seniors who got into a categorical program and prelim students who re-entered the match and got into a categorical program. Thus, if you do some rough math from unofficial published match lists (which are never fully accurate, btw), one would see that about 35-40 osteopathic seniors matched into a categorical ACGME surgery program and about 15-20 DOs in preliminary surgery programs were able to get into a categorical program.


* Fun fact, historically, the scramble was the only match "event" that was done outside the NRMP but that was discontinued in 2010 and replaced with the SOAP, which is now also regulated by the NRMP.

Is there any data on where DOs in preliminary surgery ended up? You list that 15-20 DOs went from preliminary surgery to categorical, but how many DOs in prelim surgery were there in the first place?

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

Is there any data on where DOs in preliminary surgery ended up? You list that 15-20 DOs went from preliminary surgery to categorical, but how many DOs in prelim surgery were there in the first place?

No definitive data because this is the first year that the NRMP released a report that included a separate column for DOs. In past NRMP reports, DOs were classified as "independent" students.
My estimate comes from the numbers from 2017. 30 DOs matched into a prelim program.
Historically, about 30% of prelim residents eventually get into a categorical program. I was being very nice and conservative and estimated about 15-20 DOs going into a categorical spot. Also, I am assuming that there may be a small handful of DOs who completed a transitional year or preliminary year at an AOA program and matched at an ACGME program, which is why my estimate is slightly high (something common in Michigan and Ohio where giant community hospitals [used to] have both ACGME and AOA programs under one roof).