- Joined
- Mar 13, 2018
- Messages
- 144
- Reaction score
- 249
Last edited:
So with your jeopardy coverage you will be working more than 320h for the month?" Clinical and educational work hours must be limited to no more than 80 hours per week, averaged over a four-week period, inclusive of all inhouse clinical and educational activities, clinical work done from home, and all moonlighting." This is per ACGME.
I am wondering if you have to cover a co-resident due to jeopardy, does this coverage goes into account to your duty hours? I have to cover someone and I will exceed my duty hours but my program told me that Jeopardy doesn't count. Is this true?
Thanks
I’m not defending the program so I don’t want it to come off that way. But given this is in the future, how do you know you’re going to violate duty hours?Yes, and I would only have 3 free days in the month (Per ACGME: "Residents must be scheduled for a minimum of one day in seven free of clinical work and required education, when averaged over four weeks"). But I want to know if it is true what my program is telling me (that jeopardy coverage does not count?)
Jeopardy counts" Clinical and educational work hours must be limited to no more than 80 hours per week, averaged over a four-week period, inclusive of all inhouse clinical and educational activities, clinical work done from home, and all moonlighting." This is per ACGME.
I am wondering if you have to cover a co-resident due to jeopardy, does this coverage goes into account to your duty hours? I have to cover someone and I will exceed my duty hours but my program told me that Jeopardy doesn't count. Is this true?
Thanks
Yes, it counts. But the 4 days off/4 weeks is a rolling average. So while you may not get 4 days off this month, you'll probably revert to the mean over the next 4 weeks.Yes, and I would only have 3 free days in the month (Per ACGME: "Residents must be scheduled for a minimum of one day in seven free of clinical work and required education, when averaged over four weeks"). But I want to know if it is true what my program is telling me (that jeopardy coverage does not count?)
Ok so this is a different question. It’s not about 80h/wk then it’s about 1 day off per week. That’s a very clear recommendation about 4 days off in a 4 week period. If you’re not getting that then it’s a clear violation, with one major caveat; it’s not one month in isolation. It’s averaged so you can’t just take one month at a time. It means at any single time point the preceding 4 weeks you’ve averaged 1 day off per wk which this doesn’t clearly violate as describedBecause this month I have 4 days off, and I have been already told that I have to cover one of those days since I am on jeopardy that day, hence - I will be only having 3 days off in the whole month and that is a duty hour violation. I expressed this to my program and they told me that jeopardy coverage doesn´t count towards duty hours violation, which it didn´t make any sense to me and that is why I asked. Also, this has been happening very frequently, that many of us violate duty hours when we have to cover for jeopardy. I already contacted ACGME by the way, they told me that all residents MUST have 4 days off per month WITHOUT being in jeopardy. Now there is a covid outbreak in my program so there is a lot of coverage - it is a big issue. I have not heard of those guidelines you are mentioning about allowing >80/wk
Is this really the hill you want to die on?Because this month I have 4 days off, and I have been already told that I have to cover one of those days since I am on jeopardy that day, hence - I will be only having 3 days off in the whole month and that is a duty hour violation. I expressed this to my program and they told me that jeopardy coverage doesn´t count towards duty hours violation, which it didn´t make any sense to me and that is why I asked. Also, this has been happening very frequently, that many of us violate duty hours when we have to cover for jeopardy. I already contacted ACGME by the way, they told me that all residents MUST have 4 days off per month WITHOUT being in jeopardy. Now there is a covid outbreak in my program so there is a lot of coverage - it is a big issue. I have not heard of those guidelines you are mentioning about allowing >80/wk
Im not sure what you were lead to believe but if you file a formal complaint with the ACGME there is a nonzero chance this action you will get destroyed by your program leadership for the enormous headache you will cause. Not to mention you are shooting yourself in the foot because if the program comes under suspension or worse as a result that is your future on the line too.Because this month I have 4 days off, and I have been already told that I have to cover one of those days since I am on jeopardy that day, hence - I will be only having 3 days off in the whole month and that is a duty hour violation. I expressed this to my program and they told me that jeopardy coverage doesn´t count towards duty hours violation, which it didn´t make any sense to me and that is why I asked. Also, this has been happening very frequently, that many of us violate duty hours when we have to cover for jeopardy. I already contacted ACGME by the way, they told me that all residents MUST have 4 days off per month WITHOUT being in jeopardy. Now there is a covid outbreak in my program so there is a lot of coverage - it is a big issue. I have not heard of those guidelines you are mentioning about allowing >80/wk
It’s pretty awful that the op states this is specifically due to covid outbreak within program (and thus depending on the specific details, gme allows rules to be suspended as I too mentioned above). To the op, you really should suck it up sorry to be bluntThe OP is correct that being called in for Jeopardy/Backup coverage counts for duty hours just like any other work.
The 4 days off per month is usually assessed "per block" -- if your residency program uses blocks for scheduling, you must get 1 day off per week averaged over the block. It's not a true "running average" although many programs try to meet that standard also.
However -- if there is a declared GME emergency due to COVID, then all duty hour rules are suspended.
Yes, it counts. But the 4 days off/4 weeks is a rolling average. So while you may not get 4 days off this month, you'll probably revert to the mean over the next 4 weeks.
This is going to come of as a "in my day...uphill both ways in the snow...get off my lawn" kind of statement but...
It sucks. You'll survive.
The OP is correct that being called in for Jeopardy/Backup coverage counts for duty hours just like any other work.
The 4 days off per month is usually assessed "per block" -- if your residency program uses blocks for scheduling, you must get 1 day off per week averaged over the block. It's not a true "running average" although many programs try to meet that standard also.
However -- if there is a declared GME emergency due to COVID, then all duty hour rules are suspended.
Did you have to run to codes uphill both ways in the snow?In my day we only got 2 days off per month, and there was no 80 hour limit
While giving instructions in Morse Code.Did you have to run to codes uphill both ways in the snow?
no, just run up stairs because the elevators were too slow🙂Did you have to run to codes uphill both ways in the snow?
Am I the only person that thinks maybe 9 months into a pandemic it should be a reasonable expectation for a department to have some plan in place for a COVID outbreak that isn’t “use an emergency declaration to have the residents violate duty hours”?
Maybe I’m just soft and not the grumpy old man my wife seems to think I am.
Me too.Kinda.
For my hospital we have had a bunch of people get infected and we created 3 new icu's basically out of thin air all at the same time. No matter the plan you have in place, you can't plan for everything.
Op needs to stop complaining during a global pandemic and do his damn job .
I could get behind that if OP’s Hospital is in that sort of situation, but we don’t know that. I’d be curious to know how many attendings are also working with 3 days off in a month, in my experience the answer is not many if at all.Kinda.
For my hospital we have had a bunch of people get infected and we created 3 new icu's basically out of thin air all at the same time. No matter the plan you have in place, you can't plan for everything.
Op needs to stop complaining during a global pandemic and do his damn job .