Respect for EM

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bryanboling5

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Hey, I was wondering what the prevailing attitude is towards EM as a specialty in other areas. Here in KY, it doesn't seem to be very well though of. I worked with a surgeon in private practice who said that basically, ER docs just had to know how to evaluate a patient and then the right consult to call. Having seen a lot of the private practice EM in the area, I'd have to say that seems right. Now I work at a University ER and so our docs do a lot more than that, but there still seems to be a lack of respect for them as specialists. Our new Medical Director is trying very hard to change that. What about other places?
 
This is a question that has been asked (and answered) countless times, but you seem an earnest person so I'll give you my two cents.

As to whether there are regional differences in the amount of respect that EM receives, I'd guess that there is. I haven't worked in that many places, but my gut feeling tells me that EPs get more respect in places where residency-trained, board-certified EPs have been practicing the longest, giving the medical community a longer exposure to our specialty. In general, that means that larger cities and metropolitan areas with old and multiple EM residency programs will be places that EM gets more respect, while rural hospitals and areas without a lot of residency graduates will tend to denigrate our specialty more often.

Most of the formerly bad reputation of the specialty stems from the age when only the docs who couldn't do anything else went in to EM. The ERs were often havens for physicians who could not succeed in the fields for which they trained, so it's not surprising that many of them couldn't succeed in EM. Add to that the fact that many of these "ER docs" came from such fields as anesthesia, radiology, and psychiatry 😱 where history and/or physical exam acumen isn't even taught, and you can see why in many cases the bad reputation of ER docs was earned.

You say you're working in an ER now, but you don't say it what capacity, so it's hard to know how to frame an answer. You say that you agree that EM's just a matter of knowing how to do an evaluation and call the right consultant. Put in such simplistic terms, any medical specialty can be made to sound like child's play. Surgery is just knowing which part to cut out and knowing how to cut and sew. Big deal, right? Anesthesia is just sticking in tubes and playing with gas. Neurosurgery is just finding the tumor/aneurym and cutting it out/clipping it off. (One neurosurgeon in my family likes to describe brain surgery like this: "schloop! There goes 8th grade. Schlooop! There goes 7th grade....") Internal medicine is just playing with... umm... never mind. But you get the idea. But let me pose you a question: if just doing an evaluation and calling the right consult is so easy, then why was it being done so badly by so many otherwise intelligent people for so long?

The answer is obvious for EM as it is for other specialties. It's never as simple as it sounds. There's a lot of training and knowledge that goes into knowing how to "just do an evaluation". If you think otherwise, then you don't have much of an opinion of clinical medicine as a whole. Knowing who to call isn't always obvious, nor is it always obvious when you MUST call immediately, and what you can treat and tell them to follow-up.

In medicine, as in the world, you'll get the respect you deserve, the respect you earn. There are surgeons that I think are wonderful, and surgeons I think are complete idiots that I wouldn't let cut on my pets. Same with internists, and practically any specialty. No specialty is completely free from derision given the right circumstances. In EM we live in the fish bowl, as everything we do is seen by another physician at some point. Since a lot of what we do is based on short encounters and faulty information, the conclusions we draw are not always going to be correct. For that, we sometimes get undeserved crap from our colleagues.

At the same time, it goes both ways. I just admitted a patient yesterday whose internist had been treating with antibiotics for her "cellulitis". One glance at the lesions on her legs (both of them) told me that there was no way in hell that those lesions were caused by cellulitis. She was handed to me from the previous shift as a patient with possible TIA, presenting largely as loss of vision and headache. A closer history and physical exam revealed what to me was an obvious diagnosis of temporal arteritis. The "cellulitis" on her legs was a result of vasculitis (multiple old scars, and ulcers in various stages of healing). In EM we get to see a lot of the mistakes that other people make as well, and out of the whole medical community, we probably best know which clinicians are good and which aren't.
 
Originally posted by Sessamoid
In EM we live in the fish bowl, as everything we do is seen by another physician at some point. Since a lot of what we do is based on short encounters and faulty information, the conclusions we draw are not always going to be correct. For that, we sometimes get undeserved crap from our colleagues.

Ever wonder why if we're so bad the answer to almost every physician phone call is "You better go to the ED"

In EM also we're the only specialty that is 100% guaranteed to give others work (from other specialties perspectives, don't mind the find that we let privates sleep at night) so the common rant is "they call us for every fracture, kid, GYN complaint, abdomen, etc." which is hard to differentiate when you are the consultant. They don't realize how much we treat and street without them. My answer to this is that we need to pick a night and actually CALL them for every complaint related to their specialty. That'll learn em.

mike
 
One of our assistant prof's, who is the head of a moderate sized community ED (Brandon Regional) told us that they did a mini-study. They saw around 2000 complaints of abdominal pain last year, and called surgery down to evaluate in 80. 2000 phone calls is a lot to make, but I'd do it! J/K. After having been on my surgery and medicine months, and knowing the senior residents, it makes it muhc easier to call them now, and say "Hey Mark, its Quinn, I got this...." And it goes well, whereas before there was an EM program, it was always fighting tooth and nail. I am suspecting it will be more like that in the "real world" where the consultant actually WANTS to come in do to the H&P because they gaid paid for it (unlike us residents).

Although IM just lovessssssss to try to block. One CCU resident last night tried to fight an admission for TWO hours (all they would have had to do was clear his three set of enzymes and stress him in the morning)... I think it takes, what, twenty minutes to write the H&P and orders? Speaking of, an attending at a Level II Trauma Center down the road from me was telling me of a "block" that one of the "medicine" residents had. 40 year old female with pyelonephritis, unable to tolerate PO, diabetic. He requested admission. Medicine resident says "there is no need for admission, the BUN and Cr are normal!"

I'll let that sink in.

Q, DO
 
I think that my meaning came off wrong...when I said that "from what I have seen" I agree with the surgeon's assertion that all EM does is call consults, what I MEANT was, in a lot of the private ER's around here (mostly smaller hospitals) that seems to be true. I did not mean to say that I thought that was what EM was all about. Far from it! I work as a tech in an ER with a residency program and I've seen that EM is definitely a specialty and I would even argue that EM should be treated as MORE of a specialty. That EM docs are trained to do certain things better than other specialties and should be doing them instead.

For example, Trauma. From what I've seen, the majority of Trauma patients don't necessarily need a surgeon. They need someone trained in Stabilization and Critical Care (which I would argue is EM with some Critical Care training).

However, the other specialties seem likely to fight that sort of thing because of this idea that EM is just "traffic control."

Sorry if I misspoke.
 
Got my CPC case today, and it's GOOD. I'm already planning my trip to San Francisco - but, with my luck, it will be for SAEM.

And, the best part - "the diagnosis was made in the Emergency Department". Second best? Pt d/c'd home.
 
Originally posted by bryanboling5
However, the other specialties seem likely to fight that sort of thing because of this idea that EM is just "traffic control."

Sorry if I misspoke.

I find it amusing that some physicians would compare it to traffic control, as if that implies that doing it is easy. There's a whole branch of mathematics dealing with solving such problems (queuing theory?). The people that design such things are scary intelligent, the level of intelligence that very few physicians can boast of. And once you start talking about air traffic control, we're talking about a constant level of stress that no physician in this country understands, with consequences far more deadly for small mistakes than ours. I have no problem being compared to traffic control.

This sounds like yet another example of physicians with blinders on, thinking that what they do is the most difficult thing in the world, a combination of egocentrism and willful ignorance of the rest of the world outside of medicine.
 
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