Responding to Requests to "Mix Things Up A Bit!"

[dentalalltheway]

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I know I am biased (as you all are) but from what I've experienced and been told, here are the most over and under-rated schools in terms of "you won't know just how good or bad it is until you are a student."

"Surprise! It's way better than you thought!"
1. UOP- "The 3 years is not without intermittent breaks and the cooperation among the students makes it easier than you imagine."
2. Louisville "Amazing! Just wait and see!"
3. LLU "If you are seriously spiritual- this school has everything that you could want from a dental school -except for maybe a 3-year program."
4. OHSU-"IF you can get in-you'll be very glad that you did."
5. Minnesota- "Small school with all the right ingredients that nobody talks about but it will surprise you"


"Surprise! Had the truth been told you may not have chosen this school over other options that you had!
1. Harvard- "Bragging rights if they accept you- but anyone with these kind of stats has much better options. Don't be fooled by the name. An ex-teacher said, 'You don't learn dentistry there.'"
2. Indiana- "Lacking the technology, computer availability, and clinical focus to produce confident clinicians. 46 students busted in major cheating scandal in May 2007."
3. USC- "For the teaching style- I will refer you to the comments of CURRENT USC students. There is a reason that the school is totally fenced in. Location: Like Temple's. Applicants often decide against USC based on what they had to drive through to get there."
4. Nova- "But I got an interview! Ha, Ha, Ha. So did everyone else. Even at the interview you won't be able to find a seat- that's done on purpose to foreshadow."
5. UNLV-"Students are way stressed out. Year-round. Recent major cheating scandal- that usually means the students are trying too hard because the teaching is sub-par."

Anybody feel differently about any of these?
-How's that for mixing it up?

 

[armorshell]

Just a couple of things I feel like commenting one:

UoP - I highly doubt we fall under the headline "underrated" Pacific is one of the most popular schools on the board, most likely solely due to the fact it's an accelerated program. (the wrong reason in my opinion, Pacific has some great qualities aside from the 3 year deal)

Also, while it's true that the student body makes it real easy on each other, remember that almost everyone here has no interest in pursuing any post-grad education. If you want to specialize it's time to shave your ankles to achieve a better grip while bending over.

OHSU - There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the school on the surface but I've heard rumblings of extreme funding problems, a dissatified student base and the fact that they make the students do all their own lab work seems completely insane. But again, those are rumors

Harvard - You don't need to teach your students traditional dentistry if all your students are interested in is post-graduate residencies. If they don't want it it, why force them?

USC - I left my 11 foot pole in my other pants

UNLV - Just because a school has a cheating scandal doesn't mean the instruction is poor. Cheaters cheat because they're lazy, not because it's their only option.

 

[building]

Interesting remarks, I like how you're trying to mix things up a bit.

Good responses by armorshell. Although I do understand that this is a less serious thread, I agree on his comments about Harvard.

When you step in the doorway, the first thing they say is that Harvard is about training the researchers, teachers, specialists, and leaders of tomorrow. You can do general dentistry all you want, some students do, but that definitely is not the focus of the school.

I would comment on these other schools, but I have no personal experience with them, nor do I feel like bashing on USC anymore. Go Bruins.

 

[dentalalltheway]

I love it! Thanks guys!

 

[building]

Anymore generalizations? Hate? or odd and interesting tidbits?

Lets make this forum more fun.

I'm almosttt not against flame wars.

Trolls emergeeee!

 

[rose786]

4. Nova- "But I got an interview! Ha, Ha, Ha. So did everyone else. Even at the interview you won't be able to find a seat- that's done on purpose to foreshadow."

That's funny, but also a little scary.

 

[burnthestatus]

the comments on Harvard are not without merit. I worked with a dentist who taught there, and he said he would not recommend the school to anyone. they teach politics more than hands-on dentistry.

 

[CaliGirl15]

It's always a comforting fact when you go through an interview an the students tell you..."I wish I had gone anywhere else but here. And if I wasn't having my RIDICULOUSLY expensive education paid for I would probably have dropped out." (I'm sure you can tell which school I am eluding to...) Again maybe I'm just a little bitter I was waitlisted and not accepted, needless to say I did not apply there this year as much as I want to stay in CA.
Also an alum of UOP that is friends with the dentist I intern for (I think he was trying to scare me...) told me if I went there be prepared for the 3 most stressful years of my entire life. He told me they try to break you down hardcore and make life hard, but again I am not sure how much truth there was to that because he is a big jokester (not to say UOP is not a hard school...I'm sure it is!) he even said if your models and such sucked the professors would just smash them on the floor right in front of you. Just my addition love the thread.

 

[Aner]

If you want to specialize it's time to shave your ankles to achieve a better grip while bending over.

OMG I choked on my food when I read this! hahahahaha!!! I think I <3 you, armorshell.

 

[crrees]

OMG I choked on my food when I read this! hahahahaha!!! I think I <3 you, armorshell.

im sitting in Einsteins bagels and lost some of my coffee when I read that same quote haha

 

[rose786]

Speaking of UoP - does anyone know if their website is down? It doesn't seem to work for me.

 

[Khala Jaan]

try anohter internet connection...ie. ti doesnt work at home for me but works on the student campus at my univ

 

[rose786]

👍

 

[dentalalltheway]

Some schools like UOP will prepare you insanely well for the real world of dentistry and others just crank through the curriculum! Which ones fit those categories? WVU is cheap, easy to get into, and my uncle said he loved every minute of it-best decision he could have made! UCSF on the other hand focuses heavily on other careers related to dentistry. Which schools besides UOP and WVU are all about cranking out dentists and don't care about "other dental-related career"?

 

[armorshell]

Also an alum of UOP that is friends with the dentist I intern for (I think he was trying to scare me...) told me if I went there be prepared for the 3 most stressful years of my entire life. He told me they try to break you down hardcore and make life hard, but again I am not sure how much truth there was to that because he is a big jokester (not to say UOP is not a hard school...I'm sure it is!) he even said if your models and such sucked the professors would just smash them on the floor right in front of you. Just my addition love the thread.

Yeah, I'm on board with the 3 hardest years thing, not so much with the "Break you down hardcore" or "Smash your models" part. Those type of things run exactly counter to the school's overarching humanistic philosophy, which they actually seem to take pretty seriously.

 

[armorshell]

Some schools like UOP will prepare you insanely well for the real world of dentistry and others just crank through the curriculum! Which ones fit those categories? WVU is cheap, easy to get into, and my uncle said he loved every minute of it-best decision he could have made! UCSF on the other hand focuses heavily on other careers related to dentistry. Which schools besides UOP and WVU are all about cranking out dentists and don't care about "other dental-related career"?

I wouldn't go so far as to say these school's "Don't care about other dental careers (post-graduate residency). It's just not the school's main focus. The opportunities are there, just as they are at other school's, they're just underutilized by the majority of the students.

 

[CaliGirl15]

I had a feeling he was being a little dramatic about that part. Just thought it would be interesting thing to add to "spice things up"

 

[Elipar]

I disagree with the UNLV assessment. I teach in the clinic, so I don't have the best vantage point. However, the students I interact with seem to enjoy school quite a bit. There's only a few minor complaints, but otherwise they think everything is going well and feel confident that they'll be excellent clinicians when they graduate. I'd have to qualms recommending UNLV to pre-dents. The only downside, in my mind, is the cost of education. It's at least 3x more than what I spent for mine.

 

[dentalalltheway]

I disagree with the UNLV assessment. I teach in the clinic, so I don't have the best vantage point. However, the students I interact with seem to enjoy school quite a bit. There's only a few minor complaints, but otherwise they think everything is going well and feel confident that they'll be excellent clinicians when they graduate. I'd have to qualms recommending UNLV to pre-dents. The only downside, in my mind, is the cost of education. It's at least 3x more than what I spent for mine.

Is UNLV is a bad area? Are they a "year-round" school? If so why if UOP can do it in three?

 

[TheWiredNerv]

UNC hates Duke.

 

[armorshell]

Is UNLV is a bad area? Are they a "year-round" school? If so why if UOP can do it in three?

I think I can answer that question, having looked pretty hard at both schools.

UoP and UNLV are both year round, but at UNLV there seem to be a lot of what I'm going to call ancillary classes sprinkled throughout the curriculum. Things like Biostatistics, Healthcare Financing and Public Health, Practice Management Technology, Community Outreach: Pediatric Education, Epidemiology, Summer enrichment projects, school-wide rounds, hospital dentistry, etc...

Not to detract from the importance of these things, but to graduate a competent dentist, they aren't required. Pacific takes the stance that if you are interested in the above areas, you can:

A. Take advantage of extra-curricular versions of the above offered through the school on your own free time.
B. Use the extra year you get to pursue advanced education in the above disciplines.

 

[djeffreyt]

Hmmm...so much to respond to...

Nova's lack of chairs:
I can attest to the lack of chairs. Both students who had lunch with us talked about the lack of chairs in clinic and I actually remember that we had to find an extra chair to bring into the room we had lunch in so everyone could sit down together.

UNLV:
I think it's a great school and have a few friends at the program who are 4th and 3rd years. No major complaints apart from the normal I wish they had combines classes X and Y or moved Class Z from 4th quarter to 6th quarter. I also think the forced learning of Spanish is advantageous.

Pacific:
It's not an impossibly hard 3 years...but it is hard. It is harder for people like Armor who is trying to specialize. As far as breaking you down or destroying your stuff...that's a laugh. There are problems, but those two are not anywhere close to them.

The biggest struggle is the didactic and pre-clinical curriculum being concurrent. It's necessary for a 3 year program, but it's tough if you aren't naturally inclined in pre-clinic. we spend about 40% of the week in pre-clinical courses, and usually spend many extra hours outside school practicing and tryign to keep up. Some people get it faster than others and thus have more free time, but if you don't catch on quick...you spend extra time in pre-clinic and then still have all the didactics to study for every week. Hell, I've been trying to condense this damn #3 MOD for days now and have just not gotten it. Drilled it out again today for the fourth time...It can be rough, but the professors try to help you as much as possible...not make it worse. The big bros and sis's in the second year classes also help out where they can. Many tutor for a very reasonable rate...sometimes for free..in both types of classes. It's not unusual to see 5 to 10 2nd and 3rd years hanging around after school in pre-clinic to help anyone with advice on any given night. And if you have a big practical...sometimes almost a 3rd of the 2nd year class will show up to pre-clinic the night before to offer any help and suggestions.

the OP is right...the school works well together to help you through the curriculum...they don't want people to fail...it means less money in alumni donations later on.

I will tell you two issues with Pacific from my POV:

1) pre-clinic row instructors - while we don't have a horrible ratio (we're about 1 instructor /12 students), the quality varies. All of dental education suffers from a lack of instructors cause private practice money is so appealing, but don't expect Pacific to somehow be magically free of this just cause the school talks about how great everything is. There are bad row instructors. There are a few who show up late, seem to not have much clue about what is going on in the class, or have very unclear teaching methods. Unfortunately, there aren't willing dentists on a waiting list to teach, so to some degree, you get what you can get. BUT there are also a lot of great instructors (even a few who come in after school just to give added help), and since instructors rotate variably in different courses...you don't always get stuck with the bad or the good ones. I've had 4 instructors for restorative and fixed dentistry...and 3 were absolutely amazing and 1 was good. For dental anatomy, I've had 3 instructors (1 awesome, 1 decent, and 1 who we only saw twice because she always called in sick). For Operative I've only had 2 instructors (1 good and the other is too new to me to really say) so I've been fairly lucky...but not everyone has.

2) Humanism - I'd probably get in trouble for saying this...but humanism is a bit of a laugh. This is not to say people at our school aren't nice to each other and treat each other with respect...we do. However, when I applied to the school, a big part of it was the idea that our administrators really listened to us and would seriously work with us to change things we desperately felt needed changing. This was a major selling point of the humanism of Pacific and it has not panned out. In my opinion...rather than respect the needs of all the school's populous equally, there is a hierarchy of need which goes something like:

1) The Bottom Line
2) The Patients
3) The Administration and Faculty
4) The Staff
9) The Students (there isn't any 5 to 8...it's just that far down)

Whenever a complaint is registered from the students...the admin totally listen, and in the nicest, most humanistic, way either tell us that change isn't feasable, delay the decision, or make some minor change that really isn't significant in resolving our initial problem. On some occasions...a big change will occur, but it seems rare, and a little too rare for a school that claims to way the needs of it's students as highly as it does. Granted...this is only a problem because Pacific touts the fact that the admin listen and work with students all the time to better the program as a selling point. If it wasn't one of there big selling points...then it wouldn't be a problem because I wouldn't have expected it...but there it is.

 

[1992Corolla]

If you go to a school and think "Man it is going to suck here" then it is going to suck. Regardless if they make you do one crown and one prophy. If you think that it is going to suck or you are going to be miserable then it most likely will be.

With this said there are negatives and positives about every school. I am at Temple and the school has + and -'s, it has politics, blah blah blah but the fact that it is so laid back makes it appealing to me. Sure you have to be pro-active, especially if you want to pursue a specialty, but isn't that the point?

Someone said you have to drive through dangerous areas to get to the school. Seriously it isn't bad and the area provides for the over 150,000 procedures done at Temple each year. Not only do you get the training to be a great dentist but you can dabble A LOT in the specialty of your choice if you decide to pursue more education.

If I dwelled on the so-called' negative aspects of Temple (or insert your school here) then I would quickly be lost in a quagmire of negative thoughts and my attitude would be that of a sour dental student. I am not putting icing on crap though and calling it cake.

Temple is a little old (last updated 1992 I think). THEY ARE starting to update things though. The school President has declared this the 'Year of the Student', and many things are going to change. We are getting new sinks and chairs and lights, etc. We are also getting a new Dean next year. Dr. Tansy has decided to step down and he will be working closely with the excellent Periodontology program at Temple. A new Dean might mix things up.

Temple is located in a 'dangerous' part of town. It is next to the med school, pharm school, podiatry school, etc. It is also next to the Temple U hospital. From where you park your car to where you enter the school is mostly students. Compared to Nova it might look like Heaven and Hell, but again, the clinical experience is one that is hard to match. (This is SDN conjecture considering I am not in the clinic nor have I attended clinics at other schools)😀 The 'dangerous' makes the ride to school exciting anyway👍

You do your own lab work. Oh noes! Not lab work in dental school!😱 This is the fun part. All that bragging in your CV about liking to work with your hands will shine through. Whether you are good at it or not is another thing!

Laid back. Yes, 1st year is chill. I could see how UoP crams it in to 3 years. We have a couple of fluff classes, but besides that we really only take classes that are pertinent. Histo is combined with embryology and some embryology is in Anatomy, we do have some behavioral science and public health classes, but that is part of dentistry and for the most part they are enjoyable. 2nd year is tougher, but doable. If you want to specialize then it will be like armorshell said: shave the ankles for a good grip and get a lot of lube. You will have to work harder to get the grades and board scores. A lot of Temple is self motivation and making sure you stay on top of your game. Laid back though.

My kids are running around naked and making messes otherwise I would continue, but fatherly duty calls...

I would recommend a short book called "As a Man Thinketh"
less than 4 bucks from amazon.

 

[armorshell]

2) Humanism - snip

I think the only thing humanism ever promised us was that the faculty would treat us without contempt, as colleagues. It doesn't ensure that they have to listen to what we suggest. All it makes sure is that they give us good, constructive feedback on why our idea is wrong and they aren't going to do anything about it.

I think for the most part though, the faculty keep up with the expectations of the code pretty well, save a few row instructors here and there: http://dental.pacific.edu/docs/catalog/intro/humanism.htm