Revamp SDN

[halothane]

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Members do not see this ad.

SDN needs serious revamping from top to bottom. For starts why not use a faster server or whatever....so slow, and some feature or the other is not working. Also this is what I have to say about the management!

"Maybe the queen and the ingenius administrators of this forum should go and see what Klebsiella had been doing to provoke david green...and many of us. Instead of kicking him out I suggest kicking Klebsiella out....he really catches you by suprise and resorts to verbal abuse if you have valid points with factual evidence about something. Be fair and just when you start kicking out people.

Well there is ample evidence that this has ceased to be democratic forum....the moderators do as their whims direct them, we have one who calls herself a Queen!!....sheesh how degrading and how egocentric....so what does that make the members? "subjects" I hope not....maybe those who share the "queens" fascination with constitutional monarchy would like it!

Oops have I said too much to anger the queen and her cronies? Aww now I think they wanna banish me too or maybe not ....just to spite their facade of being democratic"

 

[Castro Viejo]

No amount of provoking by one member should push another into initiating personal attacks and the use of profanity. These rules exist in order to insure that these forums are appropriate for the vast majority of community members.

SDN is a democratic forum. All the Moderators and Administrators involved in the decision of closing David Green's account agree that that was the right thing to do.

In regards to the changes that YOU would like to see at SDN, perhaps you could submit a formal propsal and I'm sure the Administrators and Moderators would be more than happy to review it.

 

[halothane]

Your majesty....these are what i loathe most right now

Your constant technical problems
Unfairness in kicking out members( Klebsiella vs David green)
You consider it vulgar that david green posted a poll about a member( Klebsiella) reknown for his insulting demeanor while you allow a chauvinistic and demeaning thread on Indian women to run several pages and now allow new ones to start...hello thats what i call whim..to remove what you please and when you please.

I trust your highness will dispense justice to all your subjects. :wink:

 

[halothane]

The definition of democracy is if a majority of members approve the removal...not a panel, that is more in line with a military tribunal or a something u would see in China! Why not let the other members decide by a poll say in a weeks time if they want the removal of green, that would be truly democratic!! If that is the way things are done one will have less to complain about.

Thank You for taking the time to hear my grievances you majesty, atleast this gives me the confidence that while this forum is a long way from being democratic it is atleast headed by patient monarchy!

 

[Goofy]

•••quote:••• SDN is a democratic forum. All the Moderators and Administrators involved in the decision of closing David Green's account agree that that was the right thing to do. ••••This forum is not a democracy, nor should it be. It's a business, and as a business, has to make vital decisions. No business enterprise should declare itself a democracy. That would be silly and futile business. And no business has business in the funny business.

Taking into account community suggestions is certainly appropriate. But caving to whim of hoard mentality, when it supports vile invective, death threats, and comparisons to Hitler, should never be tolerated. The businesses we operate take on the flavor of what is and isn't tolerated. I'm afraid Halothane has blurred the distinction between a valued political dogma with prudent business practice.

If this were a democracy, there would be no terms of service, and the site would quickly cease to exist, or at least provide valuable insight, as the more knowledgeable posters would hit the exit quickly.

This is a community, not a country.

 

[halothane]

To keep things fair I suggest removal of Klebsiella...if you will look at his last posts against me( unless he has already deleted them)in the thread about CRNA s making 120-180K on MD and DO he retorted to a decent and sober logical analysis with hurtful and insulting personal attacks. He has been doing this for a while with other members too. Please have him removed and announce the same or else several members will be disillusioned with your forums. If you say green violated TOS I agree but then Klebsiella has made personal attacks on the thread I mentioned and he should be removed too to be fair.

By the way Klebsiella the website is a business, the forum has to democratic if the website should stay in business....infact a good forum is a forum that is just and democratic not whimsical and arbitrary.

I have practiced what I have preached and have not resorted to personal attacks unless provoked. Its hard not to someimes considering the needless provocation at times. Still I shall refrain from doing so now onwards in hopes that you root out those who provoke needlessly and challenge one self restraint and self respect.

 

[HanSolo]

Halothane,
As someone who has read some of your posts decrying the recent "undemocratic" actions of SDN site administrators, I find it extremely immature of you to constantly going about nagging, possibly crying at the moment, whining and hurling "slights" at the "King/Queen/etc" of this forum. I fully support the actions of the administrators and am grateful for them taking the time out to maintain and run this incredibly helpful sites. If the loading of the forum is slow for you, Halothane, then please by all means get yourself a broadband service, shell out some of your soon-to-be physician salary money to Lee so that he could improve on server service. It's high time for you either to roll up your sleeves and actually contribute to the maintenance and running of this site, or keeping your whining shut, and behaving like a professional instead of a crying baby.

 

[halothane]

I would contribute if it made the changes I listed above listed( including expelling Klebsiella) also I 'd watch what I say if I were you....if an appeal sounds like an annoying whine/cry to you Iam not suprised you endorse the way things are done here.

 

[med student]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by halothane:
•I would contribute if it made the changes I listed above listed( including expelling Klebsiella) also I 'd watch what I say if I were you....if an appeal sounds like an annoying whine/cry to you Iam not suprised you endorse the way things are done here.•••••All I have to say is stop bitching and complaining, the moderators do the best job they can with the knowledge that no matter they do they will not make everyone happy.

 

[DrMom]

Halothane--I have to agree with HanSolo and med student. You are coming across as a whiner/complainer. It's not so much in what you are saying as in the # of posts you have complaining about the same things.
🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[Careofme]

People,

Although I WAS guilty of replying to a post on that notorious "Klebsiella vs. David Green" thread I would like to fully support the actions of SDN admin and moderators. My comments in reply to the original post were meant as a joke as I thought the thread was when I encountered Green's comments (Kimberli - if any offense was taken I apologize).

When we first signed on to this service we all agreed to follow the Terms of Service. All of the major chat networks (AOL, hotmail, etc.) have terms of service (TOS) in order to protect its members from illegal activities - child stalking, harassment, etc. AOL suspends people's chat and terminates member accounts based on these violations. This is not a "freedom of speech issue" as this is a service provided by a company to which you have all agreed to follow rules to continue your service. The only place I know of on the internet where you can say whatever you want about anything is in the ACLU chat rooms where I strongly suggest future inappropriate posts be directed instead of SDN.

Having worked for AOL as a volunteer chat room guide I feel obligated and knowledgeable to speak about this topic. Although I am fully in support of the 1st Amendment I also understand that we must follow the rules - you should try to understand this as well and put this behind you.

I have truly enjoyed the wealth of information that SDN has provided me as I venture into medical school and look eagerly to the future improvements and upgrades that it will continue to make.

Thankfully, we all have much more important and more pressing issues to be discussing and debating than this topic.

care

 

[racerx]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by halothane:
•Well there is ample evidence that this has ceased to be democratic forum....the moderators do as their whims direct them, we have one who calls herself a Queen!!....sheesh how degrading and how egocentric....so what does that make the members? "subjects" I hope not....maybe those who share the "queens" fascination with constitutional monarchy would like it!
•••••No offense, but when you agreed to the TOS, you abrogated your right to free speech in these forums.

Sure this is a business, as such any business that doesn't want a particular troublemaker as a "customer" does have a right to escort them to the door. Also, they have the right to ignore other troublemaking customers at their discretion. It is, after all, their business. Anyone that doesn't agree with the methodology of the business I am sure is free to take their business elsewhere.

 

[Jazz Gal]

As someone who tired of both Klebsiella's and David Green's antics, I must say that it is impossible to call one unprofessional without saying the same of the other.

In fact, Klebsiella had a far more storied history of making personal attacks than did David Green. Look back at the old threads, for God's sake! How can you people be so blind? David Green cited numerous examples of Klebsiella's wrongheaded unprofessional rage - I can't list them for you here since the SDN censors have erased David Green's message from existence.

Klebsiella is in a habit of making remarks about people's being stupid, fanatic, blind, ******ed, pathetic, etc. If this is "professional", as defined by the members of SDN, then I'd rather not be in this profession.

Does anyone else think that Klebsiella's remarks are unprofessional? Has anyone seen him just take off on someone with no justification? He does not do it in a rational, civilised manner. He is not conversant with the etiquette of proper debate. If Klebsiella dared try those puerile antics in a courtroom, he'd be charged with contempt and thrown out (as would David Green).

In short, the SDN administrators are perpetrating the worst kind of double standard on this board and showing their true colours of hypocrisy and censorship.

I defy anyone to read Klebsiella's messages and tell me then that they are in keeping with the professionalism of a physician.

Sincerely,
Jazz Gal

"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."
-Oscar Wilde

"Censorship is the last refuge of cowards."
-Yasin Tabassum

 

[dingiswayo]

Not everything on SDN must be "in keeping with the professionalism of a physican." Check out the threads on wild drunken behavior, drug experimentation, Indian women, lesbians, etc...

Personally, I think the threshold for censorship on SDN should fall somewhere between disrespect and vulgarity.

I think the administrators made the correct decision. Klebsiella--like so many others that like to talk politics on SDN--can be disrespectful. Davidgreen was vulgar... We're talking shades of gray here, but there's a difference.

 

[med student]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Jazz Gal:
•

In short, the SDN administrators are perpetrating the worst kind of double standard on this board and showing their true colours of hypocrisy and censorship.

I defy anyone to read Klebsiella's messages and tell me then that they are in keeping with the professionalism of a physician.

Sincerely,
Jazz Gal
•••••I will say it again, the administrators are doing there best they can to deal with people who don't belong here but at the same time there are being very careful about who they throw out and when there is a question they error on the side of caution and don't do anything. The result is sometimes people are not thrown out who are borderline (ie Klebsiella) but and this is the way it should be. So far the only people who are thrown out have really deserved it ( I can only think of two in recent time).

 

[Kimya]

Well, I don't see how the moderators could ignore such a blatant post comparing someone to Hitler, which is just ridiculous. Comparing someone who posts irritating messages with a mass murderer is just wrong, and I don't see what else they could have done. With regards to other post topics, it seems like it would be awfully hard to decide where to let conversation flow and where to cut it off. I've been on the recieving end of an attack by Klebsiella- yes, the logic obviously has much to be desired, and is certainly unprofessional-- but there are other posters as well that I've seen involved in personal attacks.

I think a clarification of the policy by moderators would be greatly helpful, and perhaps a public warning system that would give offenders a couple of chances to clean up their act before suspending them.

 

[Castro Viejo]

The SDN forums are democratic insofar as the Administrators and Moderators listen to the community of users. All Administrators and Moderators were, at some point, members of SDN without authroity to moderate the forums. We take suggestions from the community on how we can improve the websites, and this includes adding forums, removing forums, regulating usage of the boards in accordance with the Terms of Service agreement, and helping to keep members from getting out of hand.

Not everyone on SDN who suggests something will have their wishes fulfilled. Even in a truly democratic society that would be impossible. If you don't feel your suggestions have been given adequate consideration, let us know and we'll see what we can do. If not, it's irrational to become upset.

 

[halothane]

very disillusioned with this website...moving to <a href="http://www.residentweb.com" target="_blank">www.residentweb.com</a>

medschool.com is truly missed, moderators and administrators out there were so professional. Truly grateful to Vikas Bhushan( author first aid series/ brain behind medschool.com)to this day .. owe my USMLE success, getting residency solely to first aid/ medschool.com etc.

SDN is a truly pathetic replacemnet( if it meant to take the place of medschool.com)...I'd be totally shocked if I was told he runs this one too.

 

[ApacheIndian]

The only thing I have to add is that I didn't like one Mod/Administrator's comment saying "you children play nice" or something like that... quite condescending if you ask me. I would pay good $$$ to see this guy's pic posted next to mine... undoubtedly he's some anorexic cyber-geek turned badass behind the safety of his comp. Yeah whatever, go ahead and delete this too now tough guy...

 

[mellowmanace]

Too bad Queen Kim and her court of jesters are too chicken sh_it to reply, Dr. Cuts.

 

[johnM]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Mellow Man Ace:
•Too bad Queen Kim and her court of jesters are too chicken sh_it to reply, Dr. Cuts.•••••Maybe some people have better things to worry about. 🙄

Get a life, dude.

 

[Lee]

1. SDN is not a business. If it were a business, it would make a profit. Folks, much of the support for SDN comes out of my pocket.

2. Medschool.com came and went during the time SDN has been online. The failure of Medschool.com proves the point that this is not a profitable arena.

3. If people can't play nice, I'll just close SDN. What's the point of paying for something that is a playground for whiners that don't appreciate what we offer for free.

4. SDN is a great forum for students and I challenge you to find a better site or make one yourself. Only at SDN can you be sure that our information is unbiased and your personal information is secure. You'll never receive spam email from SDN, or see pop-ups at SDN.

5. I'm going to start kicking out anyone that is an dingus and can't be nice to others -- from DavidGreen to Klebsiella. If you don't think you can be nice, pack-up.

 

[HanSolo]

Lee A. Burnett wrote:
•••quote:••• What's the point of paying for something that is a playground for whiners that don't appreciate what we offer at no charge. ••••I could not agree more! And I'm truly grateful for the advices and service SDN and SDNers provide

 

[Mr. happy clown guy]

One comment and that is it...

I just wish SDN would live up to its name...the Student DOCTOR Network.
Though much of the bickering is between doctoral students, there is a HUGE amount with allied health, nursing, and all manner of mid level practitioners.
I say this forum should simply be pre-med, medical students, and practicing residents/physicians.

Ok, nuff said.

 

[ckent]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Lee A Burnett:
•1. SDN is not a business. If it were a business, it would make a profit. Folks, much of the support for SDN comes out of my pocket.

2. Medschool.com came and went during the time SDN has been online. The failure of Medschool.com proves the point that this is not a profitable arena.

3. If people can't play nice, I'll just close SDN. What's the point of paying for something that is a playground for whiners that don't appreciate what we offer at no charge.•••••I hope that you don't let a few whiners out of the thousands of people that read and post on SDN spoil the whole web site. SDN is a great way for people from different medical/dental/hospitals/ schools and colleges to communicate anonymously.

 

[Hero]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Lee A Burnett:
•1. SDN is not a business. If it were a business, it would make a profit. Folks, much of the support for SDN comes out of my pocket.

2. Medschool.com came and went during the time SDN has been online. The failure of Medschool.com proves the point that this is not a profitable arena.

3. If people can't play nice, I'll just close SDN. What's the point of paying for something that is a playground for whiners that don't appreciate what we offer for free.

4. SDN is a great forum for students and I challenge you to find a better site or make one yourself. Only at SDN can you be sure that our information is unbiased and your personal information is secure. You'll never receive spam email from SDN, or see pop-ups at SDN.

5. I'm going to start kicking out anyone that is an dingus and can't be nice to others -- from DavidGreen to Klebsiella. If you don't think you can be nice, pack-up.•••••I totally agree with you.
YOU'RE THE MAN LEE!!!

 

[phllystyl]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Mr. happy clown guy:
•One comment and that is it...

I just wish SDN would live up to its name...the Student DOCTOR Network.
Though much of the bickering is between doctoral students, there is a HUGE amount with allied health, nursing, and all manner of mid level practitioners.
I say this forum should simply be pre-med, medical students, and practicing residents/physicians.

Ok, nuff said.•••••See I disagree.. nursing, allied health, et al. are all aspects of medicine that we as practitioners of this craft will be directly involved with, and therefore have a place here.

 

[phllystyl]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by halothane:
•very disillusioned with this website...moving to <a href="http://www.residentweb.com" target="_blank">www.residentweb.com</a>

medschool.com is truly missed, moderators and administrators out there were so professional. Truly grateful to Vikas Bhushan( author first aid series/ brain behind medschool.com)to this day .. owe my USMLE success, getting residency solely to first aid/ medschool.com etc.

SDN is a truly pathetic replacemnet( if it meant to take the place of medschool.com)...I'd be totally shocked if I was told he runs this one too.•••••If these other websites are so much better and you are so aggravated by your experience here, try this:

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

No one tied you to a chair and forced you to read this forum.

I, for one, am extremely thankful that something like this exists: As a lurker for some time I gained some valuable knowledge reading these forums and as a poster for the past few months have had some great conversations, both meaningful and humorous.

Thanks to Lee and all other moderators for an excellent job.

 

[Lavndrrose]

Thank you Lee for all that you do!!!

 

[Booza]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by phllystyl:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by halothane:
•very disillusioned with this website...moving to <a href="http://www.residentweb.com" target="_blank">www.residentweb.com</a>

medschool.com is truly missed, moderators and administrators out there were so professional. Truly grateful to Vikas Bhushan( author first aid series/ brain behind medschool.com)to this day .. owe my USMLE success, getting residency solely to first aid/ medschool.com etc.

SDN is a truly pathetic replacemnet( if it meant to take the place of medschool.com)...I'd be totally shocked if I was told he runs this one too.•••••If these other websites are so much better and you are so aggravated by your experience here, try this:

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

No one tied you to a chair and forced you to read this forum.

I, for one, am extremely thankful that something like this exists: As a lurker for some time I gained some valuable knowledge reading these forums and as a poster for the past few months have had some great conversations, both meaningful and humorous.

Thanks to Lee and all other moderators for an excellent job.•••••Well I am sure the aforementioned poster had his reasons for leaving SDN. He's not a bad guy for leaving.

Of course, pphllystyl, you are right as well, in that no one has forced him to come to these forums. But I would suspect that the whole purpose of these forums are to reach out to guys like him rather than shoo him away.

These moderators are not professional moderators. There's no such thing as a professional moderator. I might not be one to speak on this, but I believe that this site would be better if everyone kept in mind the real reason why these forums exist and why they are here.

Perhaps there should be a mission statement that could be read by the members who frequent these forums. Something like:
"Do not say anything that you would not say amongst peers, patients, or adcoms. That we all share the common goals of getting into Health-related fields and of being the best Health professionals that we could possibly be. This forum's mission is to promote an environment that is conducive to learning about the procedures and steps along the way that we all must follow to get achieve those goals, as well as to promote a 'healthy' social atmosphere for students."

The networking of pre-health/health students that this site allows for is something that should not be taken for granted. It's great to joke around, and I know I have joked around a bit, but maybe it is time to start getting a bit more serious and to take more of a goal-oriented approach. I even took my catch phrase "Sincerely, Mr. 4.0" out of my signature to get the ball started! I might be one to post a lot in the Lounge, but I read a ton of threads in the other sections.

There's a lot that we all could learn from this site, so why not make it a productive experience?

As the Barenaked Ladies' song goes: "He's not the king of bedside manner/or)".

Well, perhaps this site can not teach such things, but it should be used as a medium to promote such blatant deviations.

In closing, I like SDN very much and I have decided to get more out of this site. I thank the admin/moderators and anyone else who have read this post.

 

[racerx]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by phllystyl:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Mr. happy clown guy:
•One comment and that is it...

I just wish SDN would live up to its name...the Student DOCTOR Network.
Though much of the bickering is between doctoral students, there is a HUGE amount with allied health, nursing, and all manner of mid level practitioners.
I say this forum should simply be pre-med, medical students, and practicing residents/physicians.

Ok, nuff said.•••••See I disagree.. nursing, allied health, et al. are all aspects of medicine that we as practitioners of this craft will be directly involved with, and therefore have a place here.•••••I couldn't agree more. If you are going to be a physician, you WILL end up working with allied health professionals. You might as well learn to interact with them now. Besides, contrary to what a few "bad apples" have done, many allied health professionals have developed mutual respect with physicians and have good info/advice/views.

racerx

 

[racerx]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by phllystyl:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by halothane:
•very disillusioned with this website...moving to <a href="http://www.residentweb.com" target="_blank">www.residentweb.com</a>

medschool.com is truly missed, moderators and administrators out there were so professional. Truly grateful to Vikas Bhushan( author first aid series/ brain behind medschool.com)to this day .. owe my USMLE success, getting residency solely to first aid/ medschool.com etc.

SDN is a truly pathetic replacemnet( if it meant to take the place of medschool.com)...I'd be totally shocked if I was told he runs this one too.•••••If these other websites are so much better and you are so aggravated by your experience here, try this:

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

No one tied you to a chair and forced you to read this forum.

I, for one, am extremely thankful that something like this exists: As a lurker for some time I gained some valuable knowledge reading these forums and as a poster for the past few months have had some great conversations, both meaningful and humorous.

Thanks to Lee and all other moderators for an excellent job.•••••He11 yeah! SDN has made my planning for medical education a ton easier. It's nice being able to read that others have experienced some of the same fears, frustrations, and triumphs.

As we say down on the farm, "I'd be as lost as a f@rt in a windstorm" if I wasn't clued-in to what I could expect next.

Thanks Lee...and all of the moderators too.

 

[MUN2005]

I have to admit that I was far too lazy to read all the replies so far before I decided to post, but wether they were expressed already or not, here we go. SDN has been an extravagant (sp?) information source for me durin my university career. This information has come from normal (i hope) people like myself but the exchange of info would not be possible without the site. I think it is awesome that such a website is available free of cost to people like myself (moderators, please don't get any ideas here) and I am forever in debt to the site since I will never be able to give back what I have gotten out of it. I know, I have cursed, and screamed when the site is "down" but seeing how valuable it is to me, I really don't care if it is down sometimes or not. I think that is all.

 

[Booza]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by MUN2005:
•I have to admit that I was far too lazy to read all the replies so far before I decided to post, but wether they were expressed already or not, here we go. SDN has been an extravagant (sp?) information source for me durin my university career. This information has come from normal (i hope) people like myself but the exchange of info would not be possible without the site. I think it is awesome that such a website is available free of cost to people like myself (moderators, please don't get any ideas here) and I am forever in debt to the site since I will never be able to give back what I have gotten out of it. I know, I have cursed, and screamed when the site is "down" but seeing how valuable it is to me, I really don't care if it is down sometimes or not. I think that is all.•••••Hey MUN2005. I love Newfoundland. I worked at Cape St. Mary's over a summer and I am going there this summer!

 

[Winged Scapula]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Mellow Man Ace:
•Too bad Queen Kim and her court of jesters are too chicken sh_it to reply, Dr. Cuts.•••••Perhaps some of us have been on vacation until this morning and have resumed a new service with heaps of patients and a q2 schedule.

Yes, I occasionally have something better to do than reply to obvious trolls. :wink:

 

[Winged Scapula]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by halothane:
•SDN needs serious revamping from top to bottom. For starts why not use a faster server or whatever....so slow, and some feature or the other is not working. Also this is what I have to say about the management!

"Maybe the queen and the ingenius administrators of this forum should go and see what Klebsiella had been doing to provoke david green...and many of us. Instead of kicking him out I suggest kicking Klebsiella out....he really catches you by suprise and resorts to verbal abuse if you have valid points with factual evidence about something. Be fair and just when you start kicking out people.

Well there is ample evidence that this has ceased to be democratic forum....the moderators do as their whims direct them, we have one who calls herself a Queen!!....sheesh how degrading and how egocentric....so what does that make the members? "subjects" I hope not....maybe those who share the "queens" fascination with constitutional monarchy would like it!

Oops have I said too much to anger the queen and her cronies? Aww now I think they wanna banish me too or maybe not ....just to spite their facade of being democratic"•••••Despite being loathe to respond to obvious trolls, you have some facts wrong so I feel the need to reply.

The "Queen" title was "bestowed" upon me by the users because I used to have the most responses. Responses which were often felt to be helpful. It is NOT meant to be degrading and you should not take it as so. I am no more valuable here than anyone else.

I had NO PART in banning davidgreen as (as I have stated NUMEROUS times before) I was on vacation when the debacle started. However, I support the actions taken by the Moderators in my absence.

What about Klebsiella? To be truthful, I have not read enough of his posts to make comment. However, should his actions be offensive to a large number of people, I would agree that his membership priviledges should be reviewed as well. I am sure there are NUMEROUS posts which are distasteful and offensive, but frankly I haven't the time to read the hundreds of threads and posts that this site generates. It is up to the SDN user to alert the Moderators to posts which they find may possibly violate the TOS.

Since I am very tired of this argument, I'll sign off but would encourage those with valid contributions to either PM or email me directly. I'll be glad to discuss it further.

 

[Winged Scapula]

BTW, moving all discussions about this topic to Everyone Forum...