Review of Optometry article on the glut of optometry students

[iiii]

Very timely article about the pending over-supply of OD's and the irresponsible opening new schools when the existing ones can't get good candidates.

Expect to see:

• Many more flunking out (with huge debt burdons)
• More graduating, but unable to practice since they cannot pass board exams.
• One or more schools failing to get accredited (entire class can't get licensed?)

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I'll try to post the link.​

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[eyelina]

Very timely article about the pending over-supply of OD's and the irresponsible opening new schools when the existing ones can't get good candidates.

Expect to see:​

• Many more flunking out (with huge debt burdons)
• More graduating, but unable to practice since they cannot pass board exams.
• One or more schools failing to get accredited (entire class can't get licensed?)

I'll try to post the link.​

Wait, so are you saying that last three graduated classes of MCPHS are not licensed? Even if they managed to pass the boards??
Can somone who actually graduated or is an MCPHS student clear this up

 

[optsuker]

Wait, so are you saying that last three graduated classes of MCPHS are not licensed? Even if they managed to pass the boards??
Can somone who actually graduated or is an MCPHS student clear this up

I believe it received provisional accreditation (accredited, but needs to remediate some situations yet).
So grads who pass boards can be licensed.
But their board pass rates are horrendous & Western's are really bad.
I won't be surprised if one of the new start-ups will fail accreditation and could delay graduating by a year.

To be brutally honest, there are students being admitted that should have never been accepted.
OD school will have double the course load of undergrad, and in all science classes, which is a recipe for failure for those who barely made it through undergrad.
Lowering the standard to fill seats is going to result in more students failing to complete all steps required to be licensed, and with a debt load that will be tough to service with a bachelor's degree job.

 

[optsuker]

Here's the link:
How the Diploma Deluge is Reshaping Optometry

Table 4 is telling.

 

[eyelina]

Here's the link:


Table 4 is telling.

Ok so what is your point with this ?
Thank you for the info, but believe me, some people are the first in their whole family to even get accepted into optometry/professional program.
For them, its a BIG deal and they dedicate alot once they are in the school and work much harder on boards too. In the end, they earn the title of an OD.
Not everyone is priviliged enough in life to get a straight 3.5 GPA and 350 OAT score. There are alot of other factors too.
So in my opinion, newer schools can be positive for atleast some if not all.

 

[lalaland33]

Not everyone is priviliged enough in life to get a straight 3.5 GPA and 350 OAT score. There are alot of other factors too.
So in my opinion, newer schools can be positive for atleast some if not all.

This is definitely not the forum I'm usually on but getting a 3.5 GPA and 75% OAT score are not "privileges." It's working hard despite the background you have to prepare yourself for a health professional school.

 

[eyelina]

This is definitely not the forum I'm usually on but getting a 3.5 GPA and 75% OAT score are not "privileges." It's working hard despite the background you have to prepare yourself for a health professional school.

Maybe I didnt word it right.
I meant to say that THINGS HAPPEN.
Life gets to the best of us sometimes. Such circumstances can affect your GPA & what if someone tries their best despite all the fallbacks and the most they are able to bring their GPA upto is like 3.0?
I am sure alot of people can relate to what I am trying to say here.

 

[Weirdy]

Maybe I didnt word it right.
I meant to say that THINGS HAPPEN.
Life gets to the best of us sometimes. Such circumstances can affect your GPA & what if someone tries their best despite all the fallbacks and the most they are able to bring their GPA upto is like 3.0?
I am sure alot of people can relate to what I am trying to say here.

Life happens and some students still manage to keep very high GPAs.

This is a nature versus nurture/intrinsic versus extrinsic argument.

But this does not change the data presented.

Being the first in your family to get into optometry school may not change how well you do if you are coming in with weak stats already.
While success stories of students with low grades making a complete 180 exist- they are exceptions, not the majority.

 

[optsuker]

Ok so what is your point with this ?
Thank you for the info, but believe me, some people are the first in their whole family to even get accepted into optometry/professional program.
For them, its a BIG deal and they dedicate alot once they are in the school and work much harder on boards too. In the end, they earn the title of an OD.
Not everyone is priviliged enough in life to get a straight 3.5 GPA and 350 OAT score. There are alot of other factors too.
So in my opinion, newer schools can be positive for atleast some if not all.

I'm the first in my family to go to college, let alone get a professional degree, so self-pity doesn't fly with me.

Almost everyone has some reason (excuse) why they didn't do better in undergrad.
Guess what? **** happens in optometry school too.
A motivated, good student can persevere. A weak student, even when dedicated, might not make it.

Having too many schools is only good for the newer schools (most are set up as profit centers, not to fill an unmet need).
Having an inadequate applicant pool means that seats are filled with warm bodies, not good students (bad for the existing opt schools)
Having hundreds of excess OD's entering the workforce is going to drive salaries and compensation down (bad for all OD's)
Having weaker applicants accepted means it's no longer just the best and brightest protecting your sight (bad for the community)

 

[London22]

"Wingate University, a private institution in North Carolina, recently announced plans to break ground on a new school of optometry, and at least two more are exploring the option"
This is alarming. Just looked it up and Wingate is smack dab in the middle of southern NC. I do see how that could be a good placement but I wonder where the other 2 are going. Anyone know which other schools are considering?

I already don't get why we have a 2nd new school in MA. I'm also still confused on what happens to their upcoming graduating students god forbid they do end up losing accreditation. Their next review is coming up soon- April if I remember correct?

 

[eyelina]

"Wingate University, a private institution in North Carolina, recently announced plans to break ground on a new school of optometry, and at least two more are exploring the option"
This is alarming. Just looked it up and Wingate is smack dab in the middle of southern NC. I do see how that could be a good placement but I wonder where the other 2 are going. Anyone know which other schools are considering?

I already don't get why we have a 2nd new school in MA. I'm also still confused on what happens to their upcoming graduating students god forbid they do end up losing accreditation. Their next review is coming up soon- April if I remember correct?

March, its this month

 

[London22]

Just realized that the articles charts say that the new Arizona school was founded last year in 2017 but they recently had a graduating class so that's incorrect. Their board scores results this year actually came out really well. Higher than many established schools.
90.70% part 1
95.35% part II
83.72% part III
ultimate 95.35%

Which brings me to the point against the gloom of the article. Western CA and Arizona admitted nearly identical stats. It's the new controversy to crap on all these new schools for admitting low and doing piss poor on the boards but then ignore how well Arizona did despite having the 5th lowest stats out of all 23 or however many schools there are now. Their worst section was part III which still was above average. I want to say this is an anomaly but they have to be doing something right with their program that other new schools with similar stats aren't grasping.

I guess time will tell to see how they hold up in the future, but I can't imagine them flopping next year with scores like this. I'm interested in seeing how their 2nd school in IL does too.

 

[AcademicEyes]

Achievement gap in the United States - Wikipedia

I know what you’re trying to say eyelina, but I agree with optsuker. As much research as there is regarding an academic achievement gap due to a variety of factors, the fact of that matter is that when you’re entering a health profession you HAVE to perform well for the well-being of your patients.

I’m also first-gen college student with a substandard GPA, but I had an upward trend in my academics while increasing extracurriculars, and I think that’s what matters. You have to prove that you will be able to handle the rigor of optometry school despite any setbacks. When patient care is at stake, there is really no excuse. You wouldn’t license someone who didn’t pass boards because they came from a disadvantaged background.

I think that having a mentality of not being of the same caliber of someone with a more “privileged” upbringing is a limitation in and of itself. Don’t reach for the low hanging fruit. You’re capable of attending better schools. Set the bar higher.

I ended up getting into my school of choice (NOT a new school) and have maintained a much better GPA, even now as I’m nearing the end of my third year.