rising junior, low GPA, advice needed!

[supergirl09]

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So, I attend a small, competitive liberal arts university, where it seems like everyone who majors in a science is a genius! I currently have a 2.9 cumulative GPA and an extremely low (~2.5) science GPA. I need some encouraging advice because I am seeing more and more people asking for advice with 3.9 or above GPA and I feel like I won't be able to achieve my dreams. My GPA HAS IMPROVED from Freshman year! I would like to apply to medical school without going through a post-bacc program first, but am still interested in applying to post-bacc/SMP programs just in case.
Any thoughts on what I should do in my junior year to really be fit for med school acceptance? MCAT score needed?

I appreciate you all very much 🙂

BTW: I am involved in my university as well as heavily involved off-campus. I do shadowing and intern at a nonprofit healthcare organization. I have taken summer classes last summer and am currently taking classes so I am super productive and extremely dedicated.

 

[The Buff OP]

Disregard this post and my status. Apparently someone in my family thought it was funny to hack my profile.

 

[NavyDoc23]

You have to raise that science GPA up to a minimum of 3.0 to even think about applying to med school. You may want to look at the DO route, as they do grade forgiveness, so if you have any D's/F's in science classes you will want to retake them. Along with your volunteering and shadowing, make sure you get some research in as well. You should start studying for the MCAT and try getting as high a score as possible to make up for your GPA.

 

[supergirl09]

I don't have any D's or F's but I do have a couple of C's...

 

[supergirl09]

Do medical schools consider the grades you get in senior year? Or is your GPA only based off of everything until end of Junior year?

 

[basketcase0a0]

Med schools consider as much information as they have. So if you apply next June, they will look at your grades up to that point.

To be blunt, people tend to oversell the benefits of a strong upward trend, especially if the cGPA is as low as yours is. For the most part an adcom will see your GPA and take your money for a secondary and then screen you out, regardless of whether your grades are headed up, down or level.

All hope is not lost though. If you continue with your EC's as they are (they sound stellar, by the way) and score well on the MCAT and pull your cGPA up over a 3, you will stand a fighting chance at some lower tier MD schools. According to AAMC data you would have a 50-50 shot if you can get a 36-38 and a 3.0-3.19 (not a laughing matter, but plausible if you really work hard and ace every class from here out).

Some of this comes down to luck, but depending if you are URM or live in a friendly state (NY, TX) you have a shot at pulling this off. The most important thing is to work as hard as possible from now on.

One last point: do you have a "good" reason why your GPA started off low? If you have had a death in the family, major illness or mental health concern, or something of the sort then you can mention that in your PS and hopefully buy yourself a little more slack from an adcom.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Sorry, but "a couple Cs"? I had a couple Cs (2) and a 3.6 GPA. If you're against a formal SMP/post-bacc you're still going need to get some more As on your transcript. Grade replace like a mo-fo and apply DO. Short of a 99%ile MCAT or a billionaire uncle MD is out.

 

[Goro]

Strongly concur. You'd need a 4.0 GPA for yrs 3 and 4 of your UG and a high >33 just to have a bare chance of getting noticed by soem of the lowest of the low tier MD programs, any of the new ones, and D any DO program. Right now you'd be auto-screened out.

Do either grade replacement or take a post-bac or SMP to show us you can handle medical school.

Sorry, but "a couple Cs"? I had a couple Cs (2) and a 3.6 GPA. If you're against a formal SMP/post-bacc you're still going need to get some more As on your transcript. Grade replace like a mo-fo and apply DO. Short of a 99%ile MCAT or a billionaire uncle MD is out.

 

[supergirl09]

Sorry, but "a couple Cs"? I had a couple Cs (2) and a 3.6 GPA. If you're against a formal SMP/post-bacc you're still going need to get some more As on your transcript. Grade replace like a mo-fo and apply DO. Short of a 99%ile MCAT or a billionaire uncle MD is out.

i have 4 C's and my low GPA is due to B's and B-'s (and C-'s) since my school uses a different GPA system (like for a B- I get a 2.7, etc).

 

[supergirl09]

Also, I don't have any family deaths or any such circumstance due to which my GPA was low. My transition from high school to college was tough. Like I said, the school I attend is competitive and difficult. I am a first generation college student as well.
I appreciate everyone's (blunt) responses. Thank You. I appreciate any further advice.

Another question for everyone: How many hours per week should you study for the MCAT? Is there a good routine online to follow?

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

i have 4 C's and my low GPA is due to B's and B-'s (and C-'s) since my school uses a different GPA system (like for a B- I get a 2.7, etc).

Sorry to be blunt, but that's my style I guess. Anyways, I'm pretty sure that's a normal 4.0 GPA scale. Listen to Goro, he's on an adcom. If he thinks you need a lot of GPA rehab, do it. Also, just me, but I wouldn't attribute poor grades to your classmates being smart. Med school is a whole other level.

I just thumbed through/reviewed a couple MCAT books for ~6 weeks before the test. Not the best strategy. A lot of people SDN talk about SN2ed's MCAT study plan.

 

[supergirl09]

Not attributing my poor grades to everyone else being "smart" in fact I didn't even talk about anyone else, just said its competitive!
I've heard that med schools look at the institute you come from. I want to be a doctor, of course I'm not going to come up with excuses. I guess I have poor grades, but I've also shown improvement, which I've also heard is something they take into consideration.

By GPA rehab do you mean retaking classes?

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Not attributing my poor grades to everyone else being "smart" in fact I didn't even talk about anyone else, just said its competitive!
I've heard that med schools look at the institute you come from. I want to be a doctor, of course I'm not going to come up with excuses. I guess I have poor grades, but I've also shown improvement, which I've also heard is something they take into consideration.

By GPA rehab do you mean retaking classes?

Yes, DO schools allow for grade replacement whereas MD schools do not. Can be redone at different institutions, but needs to be same subject matter and number of credits.

 

[supergirl09]

Thanks.
Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[talinnlove]

[Caveat: keep in mind that I'm just another pre-med here, so I don't know anything about what adcoms are thinking. I'll try to use as much objective data here as possible.]

According to this page http://www.uwmedicine.org/Education...ages/ApplicationProcedureandRequirements.aspx, in-state students with your GPA range had a 7% chance of acceptance if their MCAT scores fell between 24 and 27, and a 30% chance of acceptance if their MCAT scores fell between 30 and 33. (But keep in mind that this is for my state school, and the sample size is tiny!)

AAMC publishes relevant data here https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html as well. Assuming you are not an URM, an MCAT score between 33 and 38 puts acceptance percentages in the mid thirties for your GPA range.

Currently, them's not good odds. The best thing you can do right now is take a heavy load of sciences and rock them. Schools that use a weighted GPA (my state school is UW so that comes to mind as an example) will have a much more favorable GPA on list for you if you do significantly better in junior/senior than you did in freshman/sophomore. ((Freshman GPA x1) + (sophomore GPA x2) + (junior GPA x3)) / 6 is the formula UW uses.

Aim to get your sGPA to at least 3.0 and your cGPA as high as possible, but a 3.30 would put you in the lowest 10th range for schools like Tulane, NYMC, Drexel, etc. With that GPA and an MCAT of 33, acceptance odds would be about 50-50 based on the above data.

Also, read the LOR requirements ahead of time (aka now) for schools that accept students with lower GPAs (your state school, EVMS, Tulane, Albany, Drexel, Rosalind Franklin, Loyola, Wake, Hofstra, NYMC). Make sure that you meet them, so you don't have to remove schools from your application list based on pre-reqs when you would otherwise have a shot at acceptance. NYMC comes to mind has having strict and slightly weird requirements for LORs.

Lastly, if you have the mental energy after all those science classes, do a bit of introspection about why your GPA was low to start out. Some schools, like U of Arizona, specifically ask in secondaries if you think your GPA and MCAT accurately reflect your ability to succeed in medical school. Having a conscientious answer to that probably wouldn't hurt.

I hope all this helps slightly. Good luck to you 🙂

 

[supergirl09]

That helped a lot, thank you!

 

[supergirl09]

[Caveat: keep in mind that I'm just another pre-med here, so I don't know anything about what adcoms are thinking. I'll try to use as much objective data here as possible.]

According to this page http://www.uwmedicine.org/Education...ages/ApplicationProcedureandRequirements.aspx, in-state students with your GPA range had a 7% chance of acceptance if their MCAT scores fell between 24 and 27, and a 30% chance of acceptance if their MCAT scores fell between 30 and 33. (But keep in mind that this is for my state school, and the sample size is tiny!)

AAMC publishes relevant data here https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html as well. Assuming you are not an URM, an MCAT score between 33 and 38 puts acceptance percentages in the mid thirties for your GPA range.

Currently, them's not good odds. The best thing you can do right now is take a heavy load of sciences and rock them. Schools that use a weighted GPA (my state school is UW so that comes to mind as an example) will have a much more favorable GPA on list for you if you do significantly better in junior/senior than you did in freshman/sophomore. ((Freshman GPA x1) + (sophomore GPA x2) + (junior GPA x3)) / 6 is the formula UW uses.

Aim to get your sGPA to at least 3.0 and your cGPA as high as possible, but a 3.30 would put you in the lowest 10th range for schools like Tulane, NYMC, Drexel, etc. With that GPA and an MCAT of 33, acceptance odds would be about 50-50 based on the above data.

Also, read the LOR requirements ahead of time (aka now) for schools that accept students with lower GPAs (your state school, EVMS, Tulane, Albany, Drexel, Rosalind Franklin, Loyola, Wake, Hofstra, NYMC). Make sure that you meet them, so you don't have to remove schools from your application list based on pre-reqs when you would otherwise have a shot at acceptance. NYMC comes to mind has having strict and slightly weird requirements for LORs.

Lastly, if you have the mental energy after all those science classes, do a bit of introspection about why your GPA was low to start out. Some schools, like U of Arizona, specifically ask in secondaries if you think your GPA and MCAT accurately reflect your ability to succeed in medical school. Having a conscientious answer to that probably wouldn't hurt.

I hope all this helps slightly. Good luck to you 🙂

That helped a lot, thank you!

 

[Blackxp]

Nothing is impossible. Keep in there!

 

[Radon XP]

DO grade forgiveness is your friend.

MD isn't impossible, but it's very close.

 

[supergirl09]

DO grade forgiveness is your friend.

MD isn't impossible, but it's very close.

The thing about grade forgiveness is re-taking classes (From what I understand). It's not that I want to drift away from being a DO; I think any doctor deserves the same amount of respect and honor. I was hoping to study for the MCAT fall and spring semesters of my Junior Year, and hopefully get a 4.0 both semesters. I believe that I can do that, and although my GPA doesn't represent this, but I am a hard-worker.

I also believe, and I have seen this on other threads here, in luck and in miracles. I am not really familiar with how med schools auto-screen applicants, but I think luck factors in at some point in this process.

I have another question for anyone that can answer: Is it a good idea to meet with med school deans of your state schools? If you do meet with them, what do you ask? I have questions on how far my application could go - is it okay to be blunt about it?

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

The thing about grade forgiveness is re-taking classes (From what I understand). It's not that I want to drift away from being a DO; I think any doctor deserves the same amount of respect and honor. I was hoping to study for the MCAT fall and spring semesters of my Junior Year, and hopefully get a 4.0 both semesters. I believe that I can do that, and although my GPA doesn't represent this, but I am a hard-worker.

I also believe, and I have seen this on other threads here, in luck and in miracles. I am not really familiar with how med schools auto-screen applicants, but I think luck factors in at some point in this process.

I have another question for anyone that can answer: Is it a good idea to meet with med school deans of your state schools? If you do meet with them, what do you ask? I have questions on how far my application could go - is it okay to be blunt about it?

Goro is on a DO adcom. He knows what he's is talking about. If he says you need to do grade replacement/SMP/post-bacc you may want to listen. It'd be nice to have gyngyn chime in (is on an MD adcom [i think]). If you insist on counting on luck or miracles, listen to the words one Louis Pasteur "chance favors only the prepared mind."

 

[supergirl09]

Goro is on a DO adcom. He knows what he's is talking about. If he says you need to do grade replacement/SMP/post-bacc you may want to listen. It'd be nice to have gyngyn chime in (is on an MD adcom [i think]). If you insist on counting on luck or miracles, listen to the words one Louis Pasteur "chance favors only the prepared mind."

Maybe you didn't read the post that started this thread -- I said I was interested in applying to SMP/Post-Bacc programs! Not sure why you interpreted my question in such a weird way. I would be stupid to rely on luck to get into med school, that's why I said what I was aiming for in my Junior Year (did you not read that part?)

 

[GypsyHummus]

I was in the same boat as you my Jr. Year. From what I have gathered on this site, the quickest and by far the less risky option would be to finish your degree, retake the C classes and get As, and apply to DO schools.

The high risk, high reward option is to get strait As from here on out, score at least a 33 MCAT and apply to your own state school.

My recommendation, which is what I am doing right now, is to finish all your coursework as best you can and see where you end up. If your GPA is around a 3.2, I would focus solely on DO programs. If you have a 3.3 or above, I would study as best as I can for the MCAT and apply to as many DO and MD schools as possible.

I asked an adcom at my states MD school about GPA and he told me as a resident, the BARE minimum is a 3.3, and with that I would need a 33 MCAT and demonstrated altruistic commitment to be considered "in the running" for an acceptance.

Hope this helps. I would contact each school you are interested in and ask about GPA and MCAT scores and what puts you "In the running". A lot of times the schools will give you this crap about "not having minimums but looking at the application holistically". That is a BS answer and do not accept it.

 

[candbgirl]

I would forget about the MCAT for now and concentrate solely on your cGPA and sGPA. Don't plan on applying next year. Plan to work as hard as possible for the next 4 semesters and then graduate. You could study for the MCAT after you graduate. See what your numbers are then. If they are okay for DO go ahead and apply. If they are close to MD averages maybe do an informal post bac and see if you can raise the GPAs some more. I seriously doubt that you will be anywhere near ready to apply next June. It is going to take some serious time to get that sGPA up to where it needs to be.

 

[supergirl09]

Thank You!