i am absolutely torn, i will be graduating in may and will be getting my RN. ive always wanted to become an MD but had some curveballs thrown at me throughout life. are there any nurses here who could give me advice? how was/is med school with the nursing background? i already have a job in a CTICU after i graduate, if its not medicine, then itll prob end up being CRNA school. i dont know what i should do, any thoughts or advice??
Rn --> Md
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Can it be done? Sure. Is it a bit harder than the "traditional" path - yes. Here are the advantages and disadvantages:
Advantages:
1. It will give you a good background once you get into school - especially if you have actually worked as an RN for a bit.
2. It will give you some familiarity with the subject material.
3. It will give you something to do during breaks to make mega money (as a travelling RN, you can make 60-80 an hour in some places).
Disadvantages
1. You have to explain to adcoms that you are not a quitter if you just got done with an RN degree then dash off to try to pick up an MD.
2. Some old-schoolers argue that taking qualified RNs out of the workforce to pursue an MD is just a bad idea when there is such a shortage. Don't know if this is actually true, but have heard the argument.
3. A BSN (if that is the bachelors that you have) does not really help you much for the MCAT and you have a lot of extra work to do to prove that you are going to be able to succeed academically.
4. Many RN peers that you have will look down on you for leaving the profession to pursue an MD degree.
That being said, there is one RN in our class and she is doing great.
Advantages:
1. It will give you a good background once you get into school - especially if you have actually worked as an RN for a bit.
2. It will give you some familiarity with the subject material.
3. It will give you something to do during breaks to make mega money (as a travelling RN, you can make 60-80 an hour in some places).
Disadvantages
1. You have to explain to adcoms that you are not a quitter if you just got done with an RN degree then dash off to try to pick up an MD.
2. Some old-schoolers argue that taking qualified RNs out of the workforce to pursue an MD is just a bad idea when there is such a shortage. Don't know if this is actually true, but have heard the argument.
3. A BSN (if that is the bachelors that you have) does not really help you much for the MCAT and you have a lot of extra work to do to prove that you are going to be able to succeed academically.
4. Many RN peers that you have will look down on you for leaving the profession to pursue an MD degree.
That being said, there is one RN in our class and she is doing great.
i agree with flopotomist.
being BSN prepared/RN will help in understanding clinical terms or the application side of concepts, which makes it easier to read through the books.
one problem however, is that when it comes to deeper, hard core science, molecular stuff, the bioscience majors are ahead.
i don't know if that problem with hard core is because BSNs (or those that i'm aware of) are trained to think more of the practical aspects or not really go deep into the science behind the interventions, (which is usually the case in patient teaching. therefore, during the preparation, they don't go deep enough because, they care more for what the patient needs to know).
this, or that it's more of individual variation (e.g. some students regardless of premed will really go deep into the concept).
i hope this makes sense. so far, as an RN, the clinical parts are OK. the adjustments have been to change my approach towards learning the material by going deeper🙂
being BSN prepared/RN will help in understanding clinical terms or the application side of concepts, which makes it easier to read through the books.
one problem however, is that when it comes to deeper, hard core science, molecular stuff, the bioscience majors are ahead.
i don't know if that problem with hard core is because BSNs (or those that i'm aware of) are trained to think more of the practical aspects or not really go deep into the science behind the interventions, (which is usually the case in patient teaching. therefore, during the preparation, they don't go deep enough because, they care more for what the patient needs to know).
this, or that it's more of individual variation (e.g. some students regardless of premed will really go deep into the concept).
i hope this makes sense. so far, as an RN, the clinical parts are OK. the adjustments have been to change my approach towards learning the material by going deeper🙂
W
Wizard of Oz
We we have an RN who is doing well too. She's straight BSN to MD, so she took her med school pre-req's before she went into nursing. I think it works great for her because not only does she have more pathophysiology to go along with M1 basic sciences, but she also has all of the H&P stuff down cold. Plus she can pick up some cash between semesters.
I was a nursing student, but I didn't finish my nursing degree. There is some stuff that has helped me, specifically clinical skills, knowledge of medical terminology, and simple comfort level and boldness to grab charts and stuff in the hospital. Some of my classmates are timid and green, and many still don't know how to take a blood pressure even if they are in the top ten percent grade-wise.
Now before I start another flame war like I did this past weekend, I will quickly point out that nursing will give you almost no advantage for USMLE step 1 whatsoever, which many residency programs believe is the most important factor in choosing the best docs. For this reason (and perhaps contrary to what the lay public believes), nursing isn't going to give you an automatic leg up. Med school begins with rote memory of excessive detail not encountered in nursing school.
Medicine is really an old school club that attempts to see to it that nobody has an advantage by throwing so much stuff at you that only the best memorizers of material given since you started med school get the best scores. My house has had music majors who were AOA and previous PA's in the bottom half of the class with little correlation between background and grades. Now there may be something to say for things like bedside manner or interviewing skills, I dunno, that stuff is not well reflected by objective grades/numbers.
One thing that I will say, however, is that you should have had adequate healthcare experience by now to make a decision about whether or not medicine is right for you. Nursing and medicine are two different fields with unique origins. If you feel like nursing won't satisfy you, then give medicine some thought. However your alternate career as a CRNA makes it sound like you may just want a better salary. If it is just financial reward you seek, then CRNA is definitely a better choice.
I was a nursing student, but I didn't finish my nursing degree. There is some stuff that has helped me, specifically clinical skills, knowledge of medical terminology, and simple comfort level and boldness to grab charts and stuff in the hospital. Some of my classmates are timid and green, and many still don't know how to take a blood pressure even if they are in the top ten percent grade-wise.
Now before I start another flame war like I did this past weekend, I will quickly point out that nursing will give you almost no advantage for USMLE step 1 whatsoever, which many residency programs believe is the most important factor in choosing the best docs. For this reason (and perhaps contrary to what the lay public believes), nursing isn't going to give you an automatic leg up. Med school begins with rote memory of excessive detail not encountered in nursing school.
Medicine is really an old school club that attempts to see to it that nobody has an advantage by throwing so much stuff at you that only the best memorizers of material given since you started med school get the best scores. My house has had music majors who were AOA and previous PA's in the bottom half of the class with little correlation between background and grades. Now there may be something to say for things like bedside manner or interviewing skills, I dunno, that stuff is not well reflected by objective grades/numbers.
One thing that I will say, however, is that you should have had adequate healthcare experience by now to make a decision about whether or not medicine is right for you. Nursing and medicine are two different fields with unique origins. If you feel like nursing won't satisfy you, then give medicine some thought. However your alternate career as a CRNA makes it sound like you may just want a better salary. If it is just financial reward you seek, then CRNA is definitely a better choice.
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Just do it.
(An old sergeant told me that, but did not get any royalties from Nike.)
If you think are capable of being an MD/DO and do not go for it, you run the risk of always regretting it. Your RN skills show you are committed to medicine and will help you in clinical years M3-4, but only of marginal value in M1-2. The first two years are basic sciences, so you need to be prepared with biochemistry and molecular biology; you will memorize a lot in prep for USMLE and have the knowledge base for M3-4.
As for admissions committees: the average age of MD students is on the rise as many schools like people with more experience. They don't like immature 4.0 students who are not committed to medicine and only want to be called Doc.
The primary reasons I would not settle for less than MD is that if I knew what needed to be done in a clinical situation, I want the authority to act. Waiting for someone I felt to be my intellectual inferior to make a decision would be daily frustration.
(An old sergeant told me that, but did not get any royalties from Nike.)
If you think are capable of being an MD/DO and do not go for it, you run the risk of always regretting it. Your RN skills show you are committed to medicine and will help you in clinical years M3-4, but only of marginal value in M1-2. The first two years are basic sciences, so you need to be prepared with biochemistry and molecular biology; you will memorize a lot in prep for USMLE and have the knowledge base for M3-4.
As for admissions committees: the average age of MD students is on the rise as many schools like people with more experience. They don't like immature 4.0 students who are not committed to medicine and only want to be called Doc.
The primary reasons I would not settle for less than MD is that if I knew what needed to be done in a clinical situation, I want the authority to act. Waiting for someone I felt to be my intellectual inferior to make a decision would be daily frustration.
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If you already are a nurse (or will be very soon) and are interested in anesthesia, I say go the CRNA route. If your doubtful about anesthesia and want more options in medicine, go to med school.
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I totally agree with the above.
To answer your questions, how is med school after nursing school? It's like medical school. Not being crass, but medical school is largely the same no matter what your background is. Some people had PhDs in neuroanatomy and had an easy time with neuroanatomy but still had to struggle with everything else. Some people were PTs and had an easier time with anatomy but had trouble with biochemistry. What I mean is that everybody enters medical school with strengths and weakness. The 22 year-old straight out of undergrad with a pre-med major will probably find some of the basic science classes easier than you. As an RN, you have the advantage of having some familiarity with diseases and treatment and perhaps a better way to organize the information conceptually because you know an application for it.
As for admissions, it goes both ways. In general, I think most adcoms would take the BSN as a small advantage if everything else was similar to a more traditional applicant.
Lastly, as dogfacemedic said, if you really want to be a doctor, GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL!!!!! Please trust me on this one. If you settle for something else because it's easier or more convenient you WILL be unhappy and will regret your decision. Trust me. I've experienced it and seen this happen with lots of my friends. CRNAs make good $$, but that will not make you happy if that's not what you want to do (again, trust me on this one). Go to school for 2 more years and you will have infinitely more flexibility and options.
Have you considered PA school?
thanks for all the encouragement and opinions! i think i could be happy if i go the CRNA route, but my biggest fear is that ill still want to learn more and that ill regret not going into medicine. i truly have the desire to learn as much i can, call me a big (actually huge) nerd.
heres my situation though. ill grad in may with an expected 3.8/9 overall GPA with my BSN. i have almost NONE of the premed classes completed. my plan was to take them part-time while i work as an RN. i have a couple questions:
1. will it be ok to take my pre-reqs at a comm college (save$$)? will it really hurt my chances of getting into a med program?
2. do i still need to do a bunch of volunteer work or will my nursing background suffice?
3. do i need to do/participate in research?
i know i should prob go to a university, do volunteer work, and do research, but im not sure if its feasible with my situation - ie working full-time while trying to save money. what do you guys think??
Thanks again, I really appreciate all your help!
heres my situation though. ill grad in may with an expected 3.8/9 overall GPA with my BSN. i have almost NONE of the premed classes completed. my plan was to take them part-time while i work as an RN. i have a couple questions:
1. will it be ok to take my pre-reqs at a comm college (save$$)? will it really hurt my chances of getting into a med program?
2. do i still need to do a bunch of volunteer work or will my nursing background suffice?
3. do i need to do/participate in research?
i know i should prob go to a university, do volunteer work, and do research, but im not sure if its feasible with my situation - ie working full-time while trying to save money. what do you guys think??
Thanks again, I really appreciate all your help!
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Hi, I was in your position last year. I wanted either CRNA or MD/DO but finally decided to go the MD route. CRNA is so limiting that if you are a person that likes challenges and new things you will be bored out of your mind as a CRNA. Another reason I wanted to go to med school instead was that I felt that I did not want to be 40 years old and look back and think of what could have been like to go to med school and go into a midlife crisis and then apply to med school.
Finally, I visited my home country and realized that I could so much more to help as a doctor than as a CRNA.
I finished my BSN and the pre-reqs at the same time. I did well in all pre-reqs and mediocre on the MCAT (28R). I think when it was all said and done my GPA was something like 3.50. I barely did any volunteering and no research. In total between MD and DO school I had 10 interview offers. I went to 6 of those. I have five acceptances and waiting to hear from the sixth. I prepared very well for the interviews and knew the answers before the questions were asked. I made sure I read books about dressing right and how to gain excellent interview skills.
I think my biggest advantage was that I worked in open heart surgery and did some ICU. I am coming up on my fourth year as a nurse and I think that every bit of experience helps a lot.
My life story as well conveyed the right message and I think that stood out. Writing an awesome personal statement can make all the difference. Take the time to write an excellent PS. Fortunately, I knew someone that served on a scholarship board so he knew exactly how to convey the message and make my application stand out in the midst of thousand of other applicants. I was very thankful for that.
Finally, apply very early in the season. If you can apply the first day AMCAS and AACOMAS opens it would be the best. I think I had everything turned in by late July and started having interviews invites in August. Most everyone will tell you that applying early will make the difference.
I think my success was a bit of luck and smart steps (all of them learned here on SDN by other people). I applied early, I had a good PS, mediocre MCAT and GPA, little volunteering.
As far as taking pre-reqs at the CC I would try to avoid it, however if you do take them at a CC make sure that you absolutely, absolutely get an A. I had half of my pre-reqs at CC and half at a four year university.
PM me if you need any additional help.
Good luck
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Congrats on finishing your BSN! TO answer your questions - yes, you can take your pre-reqs at a CC - I did, and I did just fine. Adcoms tend to frown on people that take the prereqs at CC DURING undergrad, but in your situation, you will be fine. I think Boston U. is the only school that has a problem with this.
YOu don't need to do much "extra" stuff because frankly while working and doing pre-reqs you won't have much time. YOu will get plenty of exposure to the medical field while working. You may want to do a bit of volunteer work, but I wouldn't stress about research unless you were interested in something.
Good luck!
YOu don't need to do much "extra" stuff because frankly while working and doing pre-reqs you won't have much time. YOu will get plenty of exposure to the medical field while working. You may want to do a bit of volunteer work, but I wouldn't stress about research unless you were interested in something.
Good luck!
what about post-bac programs? are they looked more highly upon than if i just take the general pre-reqs? you guys are seriously making my decision for me 😉 haha..
i think i just need some guidance. i dont wanna end up regretting not trying at least, although im confident i can do this.
i think i just need some guidance. i dont wanna end up regretting not trying at least, although im confident i can do this.
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I don't think you need to do a post-bacc unless you want to. Just take the classes at a CC, work full time, do a bit of some EC that you find interesting. Let a few physicians that you know well know about yoru plan so you can get some good letters, and you will be fine.
Good luck!
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I am an RN with a BA in psychology. I applied to just 2 schools. One MD and one DO. I got the feeling the DO school appreciated my background in the medical field and my years of experience. I got accepted. The MD program only seemed to care about numbers. You have to take the prereqs. for med school that prepare you for the MCAT. it does not matter what degree you have. sure, a biochem degree may help for about 8 weeks in MS1. i think it is best to study in undergrad what interests you. this is only my opinion though.
how much math do i need to complete while still being competitive? do i need calc? i notice that some programs require it but many do not.
also, what level physics do i take? i notice many schools offer a calc based physics class and also lower level class. what physics level does the MCAT test on?
sorry i have so many questions guys, im obviously a noob, but i need to set a plan (kinda type A i guess🙄 ). ive never been wanted something so much in my life, its killing me..
also, what level physics do i take? i notice many schools offer a calc based physics class and also lower level class. what physics level does the MCAT test on?
sorry i have so many questions guys, im obviously a noob, but i need to set a plan (kinda type A i guess🙄 ). ive never been wanted something so much in my life, its killing me..
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Most med schools do not require calculus per se but some upper division courses require it as a pre-req. I think you can get away with one Calculus and Statistics most likely. I have just that and am accepted just fine.
You also need to take Trig based Physics, not the calculus based. I think that one is for engineering majors.
This are the most common required pre-reqs:
One year of Biology: Bio I and Bio II ( Here in Florida it is BSC 2010 and 2011)
One year of college Chemistry: Gen. Chemistry I and Gen Chemistry II (Here in Florida it is CHM 2045 and 2046)
One year of Organic Chemistry: Orgo I and Orgo II (Here in Florida it is CHM 2210 and 2211)
One year of college physics: College Physics I and College Physics II (Here in Florida it is PHY 2053 and 2054)
You also need to take their respective labs. All of the above classes have labs.
The MCAT will test knowledge only in these four areas and one section on Verbal Reasoning.
Some school will tell you that some other courses are strongly recommended but not required. Those courses are like Biochemistry, Genetics, Cell Bio, Immunology, Embryology etc.
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bylee, if you want it bad enough you will find a way to make it happen (I know this seems obvious but none-the-less you need to believe it). I am a non-trad although and am kind of new at the whole Pre-med game but I have done quite a bit of research on it. SDN is good although occasionally people can be a bit intimidating. As far as a plan is concerned, I set my whole education plan up in Excel so I could keep track of my courses and my grades as well as plan for the MCAT. I have it broken down by semester and then I have a total 4 yr plan (now you may not need it for that far out but it still helps). PM me if you have any questions.
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i'm in your same situation. I'm in a BSN program but I want to finish it but I am torn between RN and MD. I've decided to pursue an MD though. My fear is people looking down upon me because of the nursing shortage and all. Will this factor in with admission committees?
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In my experience, physicians could care less about alleviating the "nursing shortage". You are more likely to encounter people looking down on you because your degree says "nursing". For all the talk about the "healthcare team", there are still plenty of physicians out there who don't think much of nurses.
so ive seriously sat and tried to plan my next few yrs (up to the start of med school). i now have a dilemma. it will take me 3 yrs to complete my pre-reqs and another for the whole MCAT/admission process (total 4yrs before i start med school). however, if i take a yr off to complete my prereqs i could put in my app and start possibly in 2 yrs (1yr of prereqs and 1yr admissions process).
now heres my problem - i would have 4 yrs of nursing (ICU) experience (if i dont start work after i get my BSN this may) vs just 1yr. i truly think the 4yrs would help me out tremendously. what would you do if you were me?
now heres my problem - i would have 4 yrs of nursing (ICU) experience (if i dont start work after i get my BSN this may) vs just 1yr. i truly think the 4yrs would help me out tremendously. what would you do if you were me?
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Bylee, I graduated with the RN in 2003 and took one year off. I wanted to do everything as soon as possible since I am already 27.
I started in the fall 2004 with the RN-BSN and then with the pre-reqs. I worked full time and took classes full time most of the time. I took me 2 years to finish both BSN and pre-reqs (I think a total of 60 credits). You don't need to take off from work to go to school. Being a nurse is awesome as far as flexibility. When I did ICU I would sit between the two patient's room and have their monitors face the door and I would be able to do my HW and read and keep an eye on their vital signs. This would go on from midnight until 4 usually. It was awesome because it allowed me to go to school and work. Now that I work in open heart I compensate by taking a lot of call which helps the paycheck. I am on call all the weekends and holidays. This way even though I do not work I get some call pay. This past semester I took 15 credits and worked full time. And I don't consider myself a genius or anything, in fact my wife would tell you quite the opposite, so if I can do it you can too. As long as you work hard you can finish all the pre-reqs in three semesters except for Orgo II.
You could do something like this.
Spring 2007
BSN classes and Chemistry I (easy class)
Summer 2007
Chem II
Bio I
Fall 2007
Orgo I
Bio II
Physics I
Spring 2008
Orgo II
Physics II
Calc or other math or Biochemistry
End of Spring 2008, take the MCAT apply for 2009 in June.
Good luck
I'm gonna be done with PA school soon and will prob try for MD/DO, so i'm pretty much in the same situation. I definitely think what I've learned will help since our training is closest to that of an MD (p.s. some of my profs are MD's themselves) Also, I heard that whether you're a PA, RN, PT ETC. it will most likely help you rather than hurt your chances for admissions, b/c adcoms will see mature people, who know what REAL WORLD OF MEDICINE is like and who probably have enormous amounts of clinical knowledge. ALL PEOPLE WITH PRIOR MEDICAL EXPERIENCE OR EDUCATION WILL PROBABLY BE RECIEVED QUITE FAVORABLY, especially by DO SCHOOLS.
P.S. My friend in Med School has several nurses and PA's who are at the top of the class, and who already KNOW, OR AT LEAST ARE QUITE FAMILIAR, with what's taught, (not to brag, but especially the PA's have a MUCH easier time than the average med students)
P.S. My friend in Med School has several nurses and PA's who are at the top of the class, and who already KNOW, OR AT LEAST ARE QUITE FAMILIAR, with what's taught, (not to brag, but especially the PA's have a MUCH easier time than the average med students)
onmyway, ill be starting in a CTICU residency in july, dont you think my 1st six months as a RN will be kinda heavy? im just thinking that i wont be able to take my pre-reqs this fall because of the steep learning curve of the ICU (so ive been told many times) and also because of the way the residency program is structured (working under preceptors schedule and taking "icu classes") . im thinking that my work and school schedule will be incompatible (at least for the first six months until i get out on my own). this is why i was contemplating taking my first yr off. idk, ill figure it hopefully, this is so frustrating...
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would it look really bad if i applied for med school right out of nursing school? i entered with every intention of continuing with nursing and then getting my masters in nursing but now my goals have changed. it is early enough for me to complete prereqs and everything in time...i just wonder how it would affect admissions decisions. what can i write for personal statements so they don't misunderstand my intentions? i am not doing nursing just because i think it will give me any sort of edge or advantage over the rest of applicants. i just dont have the heart to change my major again because i like being a nursing science major at my school and want to continue with this.
