Rock climbing precludes surgical careers?

[bobsagat]

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I've seen a post on this topic actually, but would like a broader point of view. The one I saw asked exclusively about orothopedics.

Would frequent rock climbing preclude a person from a career in certain types of surgery? I work at my school's rec center and usually climb about 3 times a week a couple hours at a time, but I know that there are surgeons who prefer to wear gloves when doing any kind of yardwork/heavy lifting and take care of their tools like any hand model would.

I'm not talking about the trouble that would come with large, healable injuries like broken bones. I'm mostly worried about building up huge callouses on my hands to the point that they lose sensitive accuracy. Or destroying the nerves in my fingertips. Can you guys speculate about surgical specialties that would be made a lot more difficult by rock climbing? Orthopedists would probably be fine, considering the macroscopic nature of most of their work. But what about neurosurgery or ENT?

 

[SocialistMD]

One of our pediatric surgery fellows is the most rabid climber I know. One of my co-interns (a plastics resident) is also a very active climber.

 

[Blade28]

Nope, no foreseeable problems. Don't worry about it, besides taking the usual precautions to avoid injury.

One of the CT fellows here is also an avid rock climber.

 

[notdeadyet]

If you were particularly worried about your hands, couldn't you insure them?

Sounds off the wall, but if Betty Grable was able to insure her legs, I don't see why a surgeon couldn't insure his/her hands...

 

[Winged Scapula]

You shouldn't double post. Perhaps one of the all-powerful mods could move the one in the allo forum here?

I could probably do that... and merge the two threads.

At any rate, I highly doubt even the most vigorous rock climber is "nerve shredding". If you are, you have a lot more concerns than whether or not you can be a surgeon.

Your hands and anything else vital to your career will be covered by your disability/dismemberment policy; you do not need an extra policy a la Betty Grable or Dolly Parton for specific body parts. Having calloused hands may make somethings more difficult to feel but it should not interfere with your surgical skills...micro work depends more on the steadiness of your hands and H2E coordination than if you are calloused.

There is no need to play George Costanza hand model and walk around all day with oven mitts on.

 

[bobsagat]

I could probably do that... and merge the two threads.

At any rate, I highly doubt even the most vigorous rock climber is "nerve shredding". If you are, you have a lot more concerns than whether or not you can be a surgeon.

Your hands and anything else vital to your career will be covered by your disability/dismemberment policy; you do not need an extra policy a la Betty Grable or Dolly Parton for specific body parts. Having calloused hands may make somethings more difficult to feel but it should not interfere with your surgical skills...micro work depends more on the steadiness of your hands and H2E coordination than if you are calloused.

There is no need to play George Costanza hand model and walk around all day with oven mitts on.

That makes sense. Thanks for the help. I've just never come across any doctors who were avid rock climbers. I suppose it also wouldn't matter unless you actually had the time to do it!

I also sent a couple e-mails to surgical residency advisor-type folks. I feel like if anyone would know about something like this, they would.

 

[tussy]

I've just taken up climbing (almost have to when you live an hour from Banff) and lots of surgeons here do it without any trouble.

As for insurance - my disability made me sign a waver that if i injured myself doing any "extreme sports" then i would not be covered. Rock climbing was on their list! So much for insurance!

 

[Winged Scapula]

That makes sense. Thanks for the help. I've just never come across any doctors who were avid rock climbers. I suppose it also wouldn't matter unless you actually had the time to do it!

I also sent a couple e-mails to surgical residency advisor-type folks. I feel like if anyone would know about something like this, they would.

You would most likely be wrong.

I don't know if you mean "program director" when you say surgery residency advisor, but at any rate, most PDs do not know details of their surgical residents lives (presuming they have one outside of the hospital) and it would be fairly hit or miss as to whether or not they knew anyone who did rock climbing.

As tussy notes, some insurance companies will not cover you for extreme sports or other behaviors, so it behooves you to see if you are indeed covered for this sport when you become a resident.

 

[bobsagat]

Well, I assumed that the director of a residency program or professor of surgery does a lot of advising to surgical students. Maybe that's not the case.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I owe you an apology bobsagat...I was trying to respond to your post above and inadvertently edited it and removed your comment from the PD at UT. I'm sorry.

At any rate, its probably not the case that PDs and surgical faculty serve as advisors to students or residents, especially on extracurricular activities.

Many schools have Surgical Interest Groups to which surgeons will come and give lectures and of course, there is some "advising" that goes on in an ad hoc sort of way.

But there is generally not a "surgical advisor" like you would have at the undergraduate level. If you need advise about a surgical career or a surgical problem, you generally seek out whomever is available. Consider yourself lucky if you have a program with mentors or someone you feel close enough to ask for advise.

 

[Kubed]

This is very good news for me! I started climbing 2 years ago and love it. Great workout, very relaxing, and my hands/arms have never been stronger! 😀

 

[Blade28]

There is no need to play George Costanza hand model and walk around all day with oven mitts on.

A great Seinfeld episode! 👍

 

[-Goose-]

As for insurance - my disability made me sign a waver that if i injured myself doing any "extreme sports" then i would not be covered. Rock climbing was on their list! So much for insurance!

Do you know if wakeboarding was on that list? Cause if so, I'm doing rads (j/k).

 

[Blade28]

For now, don't worry about it! Just be careful.

 

[Chronic Student]

I work for a neurosurgeon and there is an entire paragraph in his disability insurance policy that states they will not cover him if his injuries result from skiing, rockclimbing, horseplay, boating accidents, iceskating, etc. It makes for an intresting read.

 

[Blade28]

Shoot...makes me want to read MY disability policy now! 😱

 

[Kubed]

I work for a neurosurgeon and there is an entire paragraph in his disability insurance policy that states they will not cover him if his injuries result from skiing, rockclimbing, horseplay, boating accidents, iceskating, etc. It makes for an intresting read.

Crap... that's how I make it though the day. Nothing says "hello" like tackling your buddy when they least suspect it.

 

[TXSurgResident]

Thanks for the reminder. I am in the process of buying disability and specifically asked about sports-related injuries (rugby and skiing in particular). Was assured by broker these would be covered (and claimed they just paid out to 2 surgeons injured in the same soccer game), but I need to read the fine print.

 

[SocialistMD]

It usually only counts people playing in leagues or in a true "competition" rather than a pick-up game or something you only do from time-to-time. My life insurance has the same thing; no skydiving, racing cars (which I do and my agent knows), etc...

 

[registered user]

So depending on your disability policy, no skiing or climbing? These are the two things I live for. Are there other realistic options? Someone mentioned insuring your hands like J-Lo insured her a$$, is this realistic?

 

[skiz knot]

Do you know if wakeboarding was on that list? Cause if so, I'm doing rads (j/k).

I thought you can't go out in the sun if you do Rads...

 

[fab4fan]

I had an ENT tell me one time that he had to give up playing the guitar because the callouses that formed on his fingertips interfered with his surgical skills.

In the back of my mind, I always wondered if it was a cover for the truth: no musical ability at all.

 

[Blade28]

I had an ENT tell me one time that he had to give up playing the guitar because the callouses that formed on his fingertips interfered with his surgical skills.

Please. I have pretty thick calluses on the fingertips of my left hand (from guitar) and they don't bother me at all.

I think that guy was just using an excuse not to play. 🙂

 

[smq123]

Would frequent rock climbing preclude a person from a career in certain types of surgery? I work at my school's rec center and usually climb about 3 times a week a couple hours at a time, but I know that there are surgeons who prefer to wear gloves when doing any kind of yardwork/heavy lifting and take care of their tools like any hand model would.

I imagine that surgeons doing yardwork or heavy lifting probably wear gloves to protect their hands from deep cuts or abrasions - which are painful and could (conceivably) limit dexterity. I was also told not to scrub in if you have any cuts on your hands, but I don't know how strict people are with that rule.

But rock climbing - those would have to be some really, really thick callouses to destroy your nerve sensitivity like that. I had callouses on my fingertips (violin), and they never damaged my peripheral nerves.

The only rule that I was told to enforce with myself was the "no using hands to stop elevator doors from closing." You know, in case the elevator doors don't stop just because your hands are in between the doors....

 

[fab4fan]

Please. I have pretty thick calluses on the fingertips of my left hand (from guitar) and they don't bother me at all.

I think that guy was just using an excuse not to play. 🙂

I thought it was bogus, but I let him keep his dignity and kept my mouth shut (for a change).

 

[Winged Scapula]

The only rule that I was told to enforce with myself was the "no using hands to stop elevator doors from closing." You know, in case the elevator doors don't stop just because your hands are in between the doors....

Yes...use your feet instead. You can always operate without a leg, but when missing a hand (or a head, as one resident did and was decapitated) makes for a difficult surgical career.

 

[Blade28]

I thought it was bogus, but I let him keep his dignity and kept my mouth shut (for a change).

Nice!

And as Winged Scapula said, try to avoid using your hands for things like elevators.

But I still lift weights, play guitar, move heavy objects, etc.

 

[sprinkibrio]

I've seen a post on this topic actually, but would like a broader point of view. The one I saw asked exclusively about orothopedics.

Would frequent rock climbing preclude a person from a career in certain types of surgery? I work at my school's rec center and usually climb about 3 times a week a couple hours at a time, but I know that there are surgeons who prefer to wear gloves when doing any kind of yardwork/heavy lifting and take care of their tools like any hand model would.

I'm not talking about the trouble that would come with large, healable injuries like broken bones. I'm mostly worried about building up huge callouses on my hands to the point that they lose sensitive accuracy. Or destroying the nerves in my fingertips. Can you guys speculate about surgical specialties that would be made a lot more difficult by rock climbing? Orthopedists would probably be fine, considering the macroscopic nature of most of their work. But what about neurosurgery or ENT?

I know a daily rock climber who is an ophthalmologist. So doubtful. I climb too and you know what I was told about climbing and surgery by an obgyn? Climbing helps you with surgery because it takes a lot of stamina and motivation to pressure yourself to move to the next level when things are intense. You can't just give up half-way through a surgery or wall when you're one hold away from a clip while leading--you know that if you fall it's going to be 10+ feet but you push through it no matter how tired you are or how much you want to give up out of fear.

 

[bobsagat]

Yes...use your feet instead. You can always operate without a leg, but when missing a hand (or a head, as one resident did and was decapitated) makes for a difficult surgical career.

WHAT? Are you serious? Someone was decapitated by an elevator when they used their head to stop the door from closing?!

That is the scariest thing I believe I've ever heard...

 

[Winged Scapula]

WHAT? Are you serious? Someone was decapitated by an elevator when they used their head to stop the door from closing?!

That is the scariest thing I believe I've ever heard...

He wasn't using his head to stop the doors from closing, but sadly yes...true story that I remember from my days as a resident. Toshi was reportedly a really decent guy.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/elevator.asp

http://www.houstonpress.com/2003-10-09/news/catching-elevators/

 

[Kubed]

He wasn't using his head to stop the doors from closing, but sadly yes...true story that I remember from my days as a resident. Toshi was reportedly a really decent guy.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/elevator.asp

http://www.houstonpress.com/2003-10-09/news/catching-elevators/

That is perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever read.

 

[smq123]

He wasn't using his head to stop the doors from closing, but sadly yes...true story that I remember from my days as a resident. Toshi was reportedly a really decent guy.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/elevator.asp

http://www.houstonpress.com/2003-10-09/news/catching-elevators/

See, I knew I wasn't crazy.

I definitely remembered hearing about this when I was in college. But when I tell my classmates who are interested in surgery that they should use their feet to hold elevator doors open, and use this story as an example, they look at me like I'm insane.

::shudder:: That poor PA that was stuck in the elevator for 4 hours, though.

 

[Winged Scapula]

That is perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever read.

I hadn't realized at the time that there was someone in the lift with him...looking at his head. I can't imagine what horror she lived/lives with.

 

[Blade28]

I hadn't realized at the time that there was someone in the lift with him...looking at his head. I can't imagine what horror she lived/lives with.

Man that's a brutal story. (One that I'd heard before as well, and among the many reasons why I don't use my hands to stop an elevator door from closing.)

 

[smq123]

Man that's a brutal story. (One that I'd heard before as well, and among the many reasons why I don't use my hands to stop an elevator door from closing.)

There are other reasons??

The prospect of getting my hand caught in elevator doors was enough to set my already overactive imagination churning, but there are other reasons?? I don't want to know, I don't want to know, I don't want to know....

 

[Blade28]

There are other reasons??

The prospect of getting my hand caught in elevator doors was enough to set my already overactive imagination churning, but there are other reasons?? I don't want to know, I don't want to know, I don't want to know....

OK.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

 

[redbeans]

And people think I'm crazy for always taking the stairs... it's not just about burning extra calories!
I'm glad it didn't happen at Texas Children's Hospital (which was the rumor I had heard), but that whole article on lax elevator safety laws does not make me feel any better.

 

[SocialistMD]

Toshi was reportedly a really decent guy.

He was. He was that guy who knew what you needed to be doing before you did and would make sure you did it. He was that guy who, as a third year medical student, gave you as a first year medical student perspective and kept you going. He was that guy who you knew would help you do anything and you didn't even need to ask. It was a very sad day.

 

[Winged Scapula]

He was. He was that guy who knew what you needed to be doing before you did and would make sure you did it. He was that guy who, as a third year medical student, gave you as a first year medical student perspective and kept you going. He was that guy who you knew would help you do anything and you didn't even need to ask. It was a very sad day.

Thank you for taking the time to talk about how special he was. I cannot imagine how hard it was for his family, friends and others who knew him.