ROI of specializing

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Thanks for the link. I guess part of the problem is that most consumers don't know because there isn't a directory like those provided by big insurers for human medicine, where people can see and search by specialty. The prestige factor is less. Friends were surprised that it takes as much time to specialized in vet medicine as in human medicine.
 
Depends on the specialty but in many cases yes, the lifetime earning is higher than for nonspecialist. Of course the supply: demand ratio could change in the future as more veterinarians opt for specialty training.

I guess part of the problem is that most consumers don't know because there isn't a directory like those provided by big insurers for human medicine, where people can see and search by specialty. The prestige factor is less.
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If anyone pursues specialty training for the prestige they are an idiot.

Most of the veterinary specialty organizations provide a directory of their diplomates. For example ACVS. And most general practitioners are familiar with the regional specialists and can refer clients when appropriate. Finally, some of the speciality organizations do at least some marketing of
specialists but I agree many of the public are not well informed about specialty veterinary training.
 
the problem with that study is that it measures ROI in money.

I would measure ROI in what my economics prof would call "units of satisfaction" 😀

Deferring income until you are older in an attempt to increase lifelong net income can result in a net decrease in units of satisfaction relative to the practitioner who did not defer income.
 
benectar said:
Another couple years of bills and putting life on hold, is it worth the effort? Does it pay off financially?
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Statistically yes, but the devil is in the details........it will vary based on specialty, and it will vary based on location. Like everything, it's about supply and demand.

And I agree that anyone who pursues a specialty for the prestige is, well maybe not an idiot, but I believe has kind of warped expectations in that regard. There is no prestige in veterinary medicine, IMO.
 
I see no prestige in specialists, I only pity them for 4+ years of servitude and next to nothing pay.

Plus, let's face it, the veterinary profession as a whole has almost zero prestige. The majority of clientele see us undergraduate educated anal gland expressors who play with puppies and kittens, should serve for free.

When you mention that you had to go to graduate school, or the fact that there are cardiologists in our profession, their jaws drop.

And that's here in the U.S. 95% of the world has ZERO, i repeat zero respect for veterinrians, it's considered bottom of the barrel, even in western europe.
 
It really bugs me when people say something or learn something about one or a few countries and decide that's how it had to be in all of Europe. In Germany, people know its one of the hardest professions to get into (way more difficult than in the US) and mostly respect veterinarians a lot more due to that than many people here in the US.

And I heard the same about some other countries. So maybe in some countries it's like that, but not everywhere.
 
nsdhfk said:
I see no prestige in specialists, I only pity them for 4+ years of servitude and next to nothing pay.

Plus, let's face it, the veterinary profession as a whole has almost zero prestige. The majority of clientele see us undergraduate educated anal gland expressors who play with puppies and kittens, should serve for free.

When you mention that you had to go to graduate school, or the fact that there are cardiologists in our profession, their jaws drop.

And that's here in the U.S. 95% of the world has ZERO, i repeat zero respect for veterinrians, it's considered bottom of the barrel, even in western europe.
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I take it the surgery residency that you wanted to do a few years ago didn't go well for you. 🙄 Thanks for your pity, but you can keep it.

Ok, for all this prestige talk...I have heard NOTHING but praise and awe from people who know what I do. Of course, there are a few people like you describe, but vets have a tremendous amount of prestige. Most people trust their vet more than they trust their own doctor.

Are there people that say silly things and think we are undegrad anal gland expressors? Sure there are. But I think there is a MUCH bigger sect of the population, here in the US at least, that has a huge amount of respect for and gratitude to veterinarians. The majority of people know that we go to veterinary school, that it is harder (arguably) to get into than medical school, that we have specialists, etc.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Ok, for all this prestige talk...I have heard NOTHING but praise and awe from people who know what I do. Of course, there are a few people like you describe, but vets have a tremendous amount of prestige. Most people trust their vet more than they trust their own doctor.......But I think there is a MUCH bigger sect of the population, here in the US at least, that has a huge amount of respect for and gratitude to veterinarians.
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I think there's a difference between prestige and respect.

Sadly, praise and awe doesn't often (usually?) translate into respect. It looks like respect until the chips are down and it turns out that they think what I do is great because they really think I just play with kittens and puppies all day, or they respect what I do until I ask them to do something they don't want to do; that's when their respect turns into not caring about my opinion or recommendations. Or, ultimately, they respect the concept of what I do, but don't respect my right to earn a living that way (i.e they respect it as long as they don't need to pay for it). Maybe if they didn't have to pay out-of-pocket for things, it would be different.

Don't get me wrong, I love what I do, but I certainly don't feel I get any prestige or status from being a vet, and sometimes I don't get a lot of respect from my clients either. I'm OK with that because I focus on my patients (who seem to respect me more!).
 
@PetPony. First of all, I'm a foreigner from Europe. I have been to and lived in 9 different countries (for 3+ months) at a time. I have never seen any respect or prestige associated with the veterinary profession anywhere. Germany is not one of the countries I lived in, but I have 2 German friends, one a veterinarian, and one an engineer, and both confirm the lack of prestige associated with the profession in Germany.

@WhtsThFrequency. Your reply seems to lack maturity. I graduated in the top 5% of my class and was HEAVILY (as in just say the word and you're in) recruited to pursue an internship and residency in my university. I personally chose not to continue for the exact reasons mentioned in my post.

@Calliope: I believe you nailed everything in the head in terms of the reality of the profession in US/Canada; unfortunately besides those guys and maybe AU/NZ/UK, it's far more pathetic than that for vets everywhere else (imagine LA/SA/Africa/Middle East/Asia etc...). There's little respect for people who stick their hands up a cows ass.

I now make a living outside of the clinical side of veterinary medicine, and thanks to other life/professional experiences before I went to veterinary school, am making more than a specialist would right out of residency. And I think it's pathetic that given how much time we spend in school, how much effort is put in, how many loans have to be repaid, people expect us to work for nothing in a clinical setting, or are flabbergasted about our prices, or are suspicious of us trying to cheat them.

Remember: Veterinary medicine is about diagnosing and treating the client's wallet first, the patient second; that is what drove me from veterinary "medicine". Unless you get that one client that's ready to write a blank check.
 
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Because your talk of seeing no prestige in and "pitying" specialists was quite mature. Right. There are many ways you could have expressed your opinion, and you chose to be dismissive and condescending. I replied in kind. You have one heck of a negative attitude towards the entire profession, and it raises my hackles. You have one German veterinarian friend and you use his experience to characterize the attitude of the entire country. There is a difference between discussing legitimate concerns about the profession (and specialization), which those around here know that I myself have done on multiple occasions, and indirectly trashing it.

You were such a great student? Well isn't that nice. I don't see the point of you bragging. I too was heavily recruited, and am in one of the top programs in the nation in my field. Don't start a dick-swinging contest.

The only thing we seem to agree on is the paltry compensation for our job. However....what do you expect? Animal life is not worth as much as human life, period. People are never, ever going to pay as much to treat their dog as they will their grandma. It is a fact of life, and moaning about it doesn't help it. We can't change the client finances end. What we should be working to change is the student debt end.
 
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nsdhfk said:
@PetPony. First of all, I'm a foreigner from Europe. I have been to and lived in 9 different countries (for 3+ months) at a time. I have never seen any respect or prestige associated with the veterinary profession anywhere. Germany is not one of the countries I lived in, but I have 2 German friends, one a veterinarian, and one an engineer, and both confirm the lack of prestige associated with the profession in Germany.

@WhtsThFrequency. Your reply seems to lack maturity. I graduated in the top 5% of my class and was HEAVILY (as in just say the word and you're in) recruited to pursue an internship and residency in my university. I personally chose not to continue for the exact reasons mentioned in my post.

@Calliope: I believe you nailed everything in the head in terms of the reality of the profession in US/Canada; unfortunately besides those guys and maybe AU/NZ/UK, it's far more pathetic than that for vets everywhere else (imagine LA/SA/Africa/Middle East/Asia etc...). There's little respect for people who stick their hands up a cows ass.

I now make a living outside of the clinical side of veterinary medicine, and thanks to other life/professional experiences before I went to veterinary school, am making more than a specialist would right out of residency. And I think it's pathetic that given how much time we spend in school, how much effort is put in, how many loans have to be repaid, people expect us to work for nothing in a clinical setting, or are flabbergasted about our prices, or are suspicious of us trying to cheat them.

Remember: Veterinary medicine is about diagnosing and treating the client's wallet first, the patient second; that is what drove me from veterinary "medicine". Unless you get that one client that's ready to write a blank check.
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Wow, talk about lack of maturity, not to mention massive disrespect. And, for what it's worth, I never diagnose a client's wallet.....I let them make that diagnosis themselves and tell me about it. While what I do changes with the financial limits placed on me by the client, I let them tell me what those limits are.
 
So one person told you about his experience in Germany. That's all you have? I don't think you should be so condescending then. I feel like I have more than that after living there myself and working with vets there, talking to more than one about it. But thanks for your "opinion."
 
nsdhfk said:
@PetPony. First of all, I'm a foreigner from Europe. I have been to and lived in 9 different countries (for 3+ months) at a time. I have never seen any respect or prestige associated with the veterinary profession anywhere. Germany is not one of the countries I lived in, but I have 2 German friends, one a veterinarian, and one an engineer, and both confirm the lack of prestige associated with the profession in Germany.

@WhtsThFrequency. Your reply seems to lack maturity. I graduated in the top 5% of my class and was HEAVILY (as in just say the word and you're in) recruited to pursue an internship and residency in my university. I personally chose not to continue for the exact reasons mentioned in my post.

@Calliope: I believe you nailed everything in the head in terms of the reality of the profession in US/Canada; unfortunately besides those guys and maybe AU/NZ/UK, it's far more pathetic than that for vets everywhere else (imagine LA/SA/Africa/Middle East/Asia etc...). There's little respect for people who stick their hands up a cows ass.

I now make a living outside of the clinical side of veterinary medicine, and thanks to other life/professional experiences before I went to veterinary school, am making more than a specialist would right out of residency. And I think it's pathetic that given how much time we spend in school, how much effort is put in, how many loans have to be repaid, people expect us to work for nothing in a clinical setting, or are flabbergasted about our prices, or are suspicious of us trying to cheat them.

Remember: Veterinary medicine is about diagnosing and treating the client's wallet first, the patient second; that is what drove me from veterinary "medicine". Unless you get that one client that's ready to write a blank check.
Click to expand...

So all I hear you say is... "I needed more veterinary experience before I went to vet school as I went in with an inaccurate picture of the profession and was dissatisfied. I desperately need someone to pad my ego and the thankful dogs weren't enough. Luckily I now work in a field where i make more money and people tell me how good I am all the time".

Cool story bro.

If you didn't know all of the bolded before going in, or atleast graduating, I say you were underprepared.
 
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