role of IM PD in obtaining fellowships?

[Blackstar72]

what is the typical role for a program director when it comes to their residents applying for competitive fellowships (Gi/Cards).
Is it normal to expect them to write strong letters of reference and make phone calls (provided you are a strong candidate of course)??
Or, do other residents find that there are PD's out there who think you are on your own?
It is my impression that a good PD will want to do everything in his or her power to ensure residents match.

Do most programs take their own? for example, you are an internal medicine resident, and you have a GI or Cards fellowship program in the same hospital. Or do people commonly leave for fellowship?

These questions are in regards to the Internal Medicine Department at MetroHealth Medical Center, Cleveland OH.

p.s. Do not come near here if you want Cards. 2010 fellowship match rate had 0/6 success rate. that's zero out of six!! BTW, these were strong candidates who did all the right things, good evals, research, etc

thanks for your input.

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[jdh71]

what is the typical role for a program director when it comes to their residents applying for competitive fellowships (Gi/Cards).
Is it normal to expect them to write strong letters of reference and make phone calls (provided you are a strong candidate of course)??
Or, do other residents find that there are PD's out there who think you are on your own?
It is my impression that a good PD will want to do everything in his or her power to ensure residents match.

Do most programs take their own? for example, you are an internal medicine resident, and you have a GI or Cards fellowship program in the same hospital. Or do people commonly leave for fellowship?

These questions are in regards to the Internal Medicine Department at MetroHealth Medical Center, Cleveland OH.

p.s. Do not come near here if you want Cards. 2010 fellowship match rate had 0/6 success rate. that's zero out of six!! BTW, these were strong candidates who did all the right things, good evals, research, etc

thanks for your input.

Every program will want a letter from the PD, this kind of serves as the fellowship equivalent of the "dean's letter". It will talk about your performance in the program, any issues you've had or not had, and then a recommendation. What he does above and beyond that will kind of be up to him.

Cards is tough to get into out of a community program, and when there are plenty of applicants from academic programs, there's no need to take anyone form the community. It's not personal.

 

[Titan345]

Wow, I've heard of this program in Cleveland but only good things until now. But I had thought it wasnt a true community program, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was one of the two Case Western programs with all the fellowships???

But I do know it is the program director's job to "go to bat" for residents. At my program, our program director met with us as interns in July, talked about what our career goals were and then helped guide us to the fellowship directors at our hospital (or hospitalists) to help us meet those goals with research and all that.

At our hospital if a home resident is a well qualified candidate, they prefer a home resident. That only makes sense. And yes we have filled with 100% of our own people.

But there are some programs (no offense but your's maybe one of them) where IM PD's are pretty anti-specialist or have poor relationships with fellowship directors and therefore those directors do not value the IM residents.

Its hard enough to worry about research and fellowships during a busy residency but to go it alone without a PDs help is career suicide.

Good luck with this, I hope you werent one of the 0/6!!

Every program will want a letter from the PD, this kind of serves as the fellowship equivalent of the "dean's letter". It will talk about your performance in the program, any issues you've had or not had, and then a recommendation. What he does above and beyond that will kind of be up to him.

Cards is tough to get into out of a community program, and when there are plenty of applicants from academic programs, there's no need to take anyone form the community. It's not personal.

 

[abcabc1]

what is the typical role for a program director when it comes to their residents applying for competitive fellowships (Gi/Cards).
Is it normal to expect them to write strong letters of reference and make phone calls (provided you are a strong candidate of course)??
Or, do other residents find that there are PD's out there who think you are on your own?
It is my impression that a good PD will want to do everything in his or her power to ensure residents match.

Do most programs take their own? for example, you are an internal medicine resident, and you have a GI or Cards fellowship program in the same hospital. Or do people commonly leave for fellowship?

These questions are in regards to the Internal Medicine Department at MetroHealth Medical Center, Cleveland OH.

p.s. Do not come near here if you want Cards. 2010 fellowship match rate had 0/6 success rate. that's zero out of six!! BTW, these were strong candidates who did all the right things, good evals, research, etc

thanks for your input.

I've heard that some of the higher end fields you mentioned (GI/Cards) are so competitive that some community programs will limit how many of their fellowship spots will be given to in-house residents. For example, a community program with 3 Cards spots may limit the number of fellows who went to their home IM program to 1 or 2. These aren't official limits, but they often do not take ALL in house fellows.

As another poster said, these programs are so competitive that the average to below average fellowship programs get plenty of applications from IM residents at major programs. In Philly, for example, it's not unheard of to see IM residents going into Cards at Drexel, Temple, or some smaller programs in and around Philly. Not that these programs are weak, but they certainly aren't on Penn's level.

 

[DrWBD]

I've heard that some of the higher end fields you mentioned (GI/Cards) are so competitive that some community programs will limit how many of their fellowship spots will be given to in-house residents. For example, a community program with 3 Cards spots may limit the number of fellows who went to their home IM program to 1 or 2. These aren't official limits, but they often do not take ALL in house fellows.

True. This year the competition for fellowship was extremely intense at my community program, with a chief resident from Yale and stellar applicants from Columbia and Mount Sinai applying. I wouldn't have had a prayer if I applied this year 😀

 

[Blackstar72]

although it is true that top tier residency gets you into competitive fellowship. it is not uncommon to see your program take your own, i have seen it with my own eyes (even at a low tier program).

It sounds like most people are saying that fellowships generally take one of their own residents. therefore can I infer that taking none of your own fellows is indicative of a weak program?

 

[dragonfly99]

It depends on the program and the program director. I went to a pretty good academic type residency, but my sense was that the PD went to bat for only certain people, at least in any substantial way. It probably depends a lot on the particular PD and how much time he/she is willing to spend doing this type of stuff. It also depends on how much he/she likes you, and whether the person is well connected versus not.

Being from a community program is not a good thing if applying to things like cards or GI, especially if the place doesn't have a good reputation. I'm not saying that your program does or does not...

 

[ResidentMD]

It depends on the program and the program director. I went to a pretty good academic type residency, but my sense was that the PD went to bat for only certain people, at least in any substantial way. It probably depends a lot on the particular PD and how much time he/she is willing to spend doing this type of stuff. It also depends on how much he/she likes you, and whether the person is well connected versus not.

Being from a community program is not a good thing if applying to things like cards or GI, especially if the place doesn't have a good reputation. I'm not saying that your program does or does not...

Agreed. Having said that, some community programs have PDs that are extremely well connected in academic circles. They just chose to be PDs of community programs - they might as well have been associate PDs of top university programs. Some of these PDs have great connections, especially in their subspecialty, and can land you some stellar fellowships. But then again, such a program would have a good reputation in academic circles.

A word of caution - going into a community program with a Cards/GI fellowship may be a more prudent option that going into a namesake university/university-affiliated program that has no Cards/GI fellowship. Check out the fellowship matches when you interview. E.g. (Purely hypothetical scenario) If you find that xxx community program matches its own into its own Cards/GI fellowship, but yyy univ-affiliated program does not match many of its residents into the univ. Cards/GI fellowship, and anyone wanting Cards/GI there needs to do chief residency, then it may be a better option to go to the community program. At least you would get 'A Cards/GI' fellowship then.

 

[Blackstar72]

good point residentMD, its important to know what you are getting yourself into over the next three years. A cards/GI fellowship is better than no cards/GI fellowship. agreed.

 

[Trifling Jester]

A word of caution - going into a community program with a Cards/GI fellowship may be a more prudent option that going into a namesake university/university-affiliated program that has no Cards/GI fellowship.

I agree with you. But what kind of a university program doesn't have a cardiology fellowship? University-affiliated, sure, (I always considered those as being "community"), but a university program that doesn't have cardiology? I'd have to think that would be rare. But yeah, I'd rather be at a good community program that took its own in house applicants for cardiology than at a university program that didn't offer a cardiology fellowship at all.

But to the OP. Every program I applied to wanted the PDs letter. If they make phone calls for you that is always a plus. If you somehow get to know the chairman of the dept of medicine (their involvement in the IM residency varies from program to program) that can really help to pull some strings as well. And of course, the cardiologists in your home program are more important. The *bigger* the name the better.

As to whether most programs take their own it really varies from program to program. I know many places limit the number of in house candidates to 1/2 out of 3/4 for cardiology and gi. Some fill them up exclusively in house. When you apply for medicine residency you should look at how they fill. If they fill exclusively in house or exclusively outside you may want to weigh that when you rank your match list.

-The Trifling Jester