Sackler or reapply?

[soccerman11]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hey guys. I have a 3.3 undergrad with a 3.8 from an SMP. 512 on the MCAT.

I interviewed at three schools this cycle. Waitlisted at one, rejected by the other, and got into Sackler in Israel.

I have 200+ hours of clinical volunteering, 300 hours of shadowing (which I did this cycle and it wasn't on my primary app - so that's something new I could add), LOTS of leadership positions and volunteering. No research other than the thesis I wrote for my Master's. This year I also started teaching MCAT classes for the Princeton Review, and volunteering at a homeless shelter for women in downtown.

Should I stick to Sackler (which is considered much better than the carribean) and go to Israel?

Despite a pretty good match this year (I think: http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/), I might be risking not getting that good of a residency in four years when they combine the matches. I'm not trying to get into such competitive residencies anyway. I'd be happy with anesthesiology or going IM and specializing.

And before you tell me to do research on the school, I already have. I'm trying to get some opinions on the combined match.

Or should I apply again with some DO schools.

What do you think?

 

[soccerman11]

Hey guys. I have a 3.3 undergrad with a 3.8 from an SMP. 512 on the MCAT.

I interviewed at three schools this cycle. Waitlisted at one, rejected by the other, and got into Sackler in Israel.

I have 200+ hours of clinical volunteering, 300 hours of shadowing (which I did this cycle and it wasn't on my primary app - so that's something new I could add), LOTS of leadership positions and volunteering. No research other than the thesis I wrote for my Master's. This year I also started teaching MCAT classes for the Princeton Review, and volunteering at a homeless shelter for women in downtown.

Should I stick to Sackler (which is considered much better than the carribean) and go to Israel?

Despite a pretty good match this year (I think: http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/), I might be risking not getting that good of a residency four years when they combine the matches. I'm not trying to get into such competitive residencies anyway. I'd be happy with anesthesiology or going IM and specializing.

And before you tell me to do research on the school, I already have. I'm trying to get some opinions on the combined match.

Or should I apply again with some DO schools.

What do you think?

Also my application went out pretty late last year because I was studying for the MCAT. This year I could get it in on the first day.

@Goro @gyngyn

 

[Tallia1]

I honestly get so confused when I hear of people with relatively good stats not get into a few MD schools. Your undergrad isn't good, but your grad is really great, and your MCAT is good too.

 

[Goro]

How badly do you want to:
be a doctor by going to med school in the US?
Be an MD?
Dodge Hamas rockets?

Also my application went out pretty late last year because I was studying for the MCAT. This year I could get it in on the first day.

@Goro @gyngyn

 

[salemstein]

How badly do you want to:
be a doctor by going to med school in the US?
Be an MD?
Dodge Hamas rockets?

You mean "Treat patients injured by Hamas rockets?" Optimism, man, optimism.

 

[soccerman11]

I want to stay in the US pretty badly. But at the same time I could handle 3.5-4 years in Israel. I have a lot of resources and family there, and I know the whole situation with the rockets and terrorism and I'm not too worried about it

MD or DO, I don't really care at this point.

How badly do you want to:
be a doctor by going to med school in the US?
Be an MD?
Dodge Hamas rockets?

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd go with Sackler, personally. So far as international programs go, they have a reputation that really precedes them. If you do well, you have a very strong chance of matching some decent programs and specialties. Just be ready to dodge those rockets tho, and hope Iran doesn't speed up that whole nuclear thing underneath our noses...

http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

 

[Mad Jack]

I want to stay in the US pretty badly. But at the same time I could handle 3.5-4 years in Israel. I have a lot of resources and family there, and I know the whole situation with the rockets and terrorism and I'm not too worried about it

MD or DO, I don't really care at this point.

You could easily go DO if you applied next year. Dunno why you didn't throw some into the mix this year, you'd have been in at several places, but hey, I'm no one to talk in regard to screwing up my app season planning poorly can cost you time or worse.

 

[soccerman11]

You could easily go DO if you applied next year. Dunno why you didn't throw some into the mix this year, you'd have been in at several places, but hey, I'm no one to talk in regard to screwing up my app season planning poorly can cost you time or worse.

I applied to a few, it took me a while to get a DO letter though, and I never sent secondaries in to any of them 🙁

 

[soccerman11]

Also it's not so much the rockets you have to worry about now as it is getting stabbed.

 

[gyngyn]

Sackler is the best of the international schools for those interested in US practice.
I would recommend them over Northstate.

 

[Mad Jack]

Also it's not so much the rockets you have to worry about now as it is getting stabbed.

Just be careful over there and you'll probably be fine. Then again, the American that was stabbed to death recently was ex-military and he didn't even see it coming, so... Just hope the odds are in your favor, I guess?

 

[Mad Jack]

Sackler is the best of the international schools for those interested in US practice.

Sackler is about the only American-targeted international school I would ever encourage someone to pick over a DO school. They're fantastic, and I seriously wish I'd considered sending in an app back in the day.

 

[soccerman11]

Sackler is about the only American-targeted international school I would ever encourage someone to pick over a DO school. They're fantastic, and I seriously wish I'd considered sending in an app back in the day.

That's awesome to hear. So I shouldn't be worried about the match combining in a few years?

 

[GrapesofRath]

I wouldnt turn down Sackler just to reapply again DO unless you have a clear reason for wanting to stay in the US

How exactly did your US MD cycle go because that's what I would use to make this decision? If you gave it a good run, applied broadly and to most of the schools you realistically should have applied to, I tend to think it's probably not worth reapplying when you are going to be a reapplicant at so many US MD schools and only got 2 IIs. If however, you didnt really apply to many places or applied late, I might lean towards giving it one more try. Part of this also depends on your SMP host institution as with a 512 and 3.8 in the program you probably should have been able to generate some interest from your SMP host institution(if it was a reputable one) which is where your odds will be best at.

 

[Spector1]

sackler

 

[soccerman11]

I applied to the following schools. I sent my app in to one school so it could get verified. I took the MCAT mid july, started getting secondaries around mid august. sent most of them back between august -mid november (i added a few schools later). I got my SMP at Tufts. They were on of the schools I interviewed at, and they rejected me straight up. But a lot of my other friends in the program didn't get in there either, as they said they had a high yield this year.

My personal statement was good, as was verified by an English PhD and my advisor who sits on the admissions committee at Tufts.

Albany Medical College
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Cooper Med School in NJ
Drexel
Eastern Virginia
Florida International
George Washington
Hofstra - North Shore LIJ on Long Island
Jefferson
New York Medical College
Oakland Beumont
Quinnipiac Med School in Connecticut
Robert Wood Johnson Med School - Rutgers NJ
Rosalind
Rush
Sackler
St. Louis U
Temple
Tufts
Tulane
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Riverside
UCLA
USC
virginia commonwealth
loyola
rochester
miami
wake forest

 

[Mad Jack]

That's awesome to hear. So I shouldn't be worried about the match combining in a few years?

You'll probably be about as well off as any DO grad. Sackler is a different sort of foreign school, with a very different sort of reputation. Hell, they matched two rad-onc students, two ENT, rads at UCLA, general surg at UCSF, anesthesia at Cornell and Yale, all just last year, in what has hands-down been the most competitive match ever. Sackler grads will, barring any insanity on the legislative front (which seems unlikely, though there have been grumblings about US-first policies that no one really wants), be fine for the next 8-10 years at least.

 

[deleted731525]

Sackler is the best of the international schools for those interested in US practice.
I would recommend them over Northstate.

As somebody who may be attending Sackler I find this a bit absurd. Dont get me wrong I think Sackler is great and probably on par with a high tier DO school in the North East and on some of the west coast but any school with lcme accreditation(even provisional) is going to win out over one without.

 

[gyngyn]

As somebody who may be attending Sackler I find this a bit absurd. Dont get me wrong I think Sackler is great and probably on par with a high tier DO school in the North East and on some of the west coast but any school with lcme accreditation(even provisional) is going to win out over one without.

CN"U" has not lived up to its provisional accreditation.
Their behavior has defied all reason.
I can only hope that their students will be able to overcome the stigma.

 

[deleted731525]

Sackler is about the only American-targeted international school I would ever encourage someone to pick over a DO school. They're fantastic, and I seriously wish I'd considered sending in an app back in the day.

You definitely would have got in(well not definitely but you would have had a good shot). Once you get to the interview stage it is all very laid back and seems to be more about if you can handle life in a different country.

 

[Mansamusa]

This school has not lived up to its provisional accreditation.
Their behavior has defied all reason.
I can only hope that their students will be able to overcome the stigma.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...lth-sciences-program-has-tiny-enrollment.html

And from their website: In the off chance that CNU is unable to attain full accreditation, what happens to the graduates/medical students? Will they still be able to get a residency and become licensed physicians? What happens if CNU isn't able to attain provisional accreditation after year 2? Is there an agreement for CNU students to transfer to another medical school if the LCME does not allow CNU to run anymore?
We look forward to achieving full accreditation, based on our state of preparedness. Nevertheless, we do have a “Teach Out” plan, which has been shared with and reviewed by the LCME.


Do all new schools have a "teach out" plan or is CNU worried? (looked it up. All schools do, but it's still concerning that they would even feel the need to put that in the faq)

 

[deleted731525]

As for OP's question. I dont think you should make your decision on matching. It looks like the top students at Sackler get residencies unobtainable by DOs and everyone else matches to places that mostly are willing to take DOs. This decision comes down to what you want more, to start this year or to spend most of the 4 years of med school in the US. If you apply broadly I am sure you will get into a DO school(maybe MD) next cycle. Another factor that hasnt been mentioned is cost. Sackler is 40k per year for all 4 years and that includes health insurance. That is basically going to give you the same COA as a NY state school.

 

[Terror Billy]

It's a tough call, but I feel if you apply the first day this cycle you should have a great chance at a US MD if staying in America is what you desire.

 

[Goro]

This is interesting...do you foresee the LCME acting upon this???

This school has not lived up to its provisional accreditation.
Their behavior has defied all reason.
I can only hope that their students will be able to overcome the stigma.

There is precedence for this when Ponce (I believe) lost accreditation, but I don't remember what the solution was. The wise gyngyn can fill us in.

EDIT: I just fully read your post. This is unheard of for a new school to post something like this on their website! Teach-in plan indeed. If I were a CNU student, I'd be worried. Even more so as a faculty member!

For DO schools, the students would transfer to all the other COMs.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...lth-sciences-program-has-tiny-enrollment.html

And from their website: In the off chance that CNU is unable to attain full accreditation, what happens to the graduates/medical students? Will they still be able to get a residency and become licensed physicians? What happens if CNU isn't able to attain provisional accreditation after year 2? Is there an agreement for CNU students to transfer to another medical school if the LCME does not allow CNU to run anymore?
We look forward to achieving full accreditation, based on our state of preparedness. Nevertheless, we do have a “Teach Out” plan, which has been shared with and reviewed by the LCME.


Do all new schools have a "teach out" plan or is CNU worried? (looked it up. All schools do, but it's still concerning that they would even feel the need to put that in the faq)

 

[Nerdeka]

Reapply.. 😵

 

[DokterMom]

could handle 3.5-4 years in Israel. I have a lot of resources and family there, and I know the whole situation with the rockets and terrorism and I'm not too worried about it

I get the impression that many Sackler grads have family connections at US hospitals that help them secure competitive US residencies. If you've got these connections and want to stay in the northeast, Sackler seems to be a good plan --

 

[mpdoc2]

Hey guys. I have a 3.3 undergrad with a 3.8 from an SMP. 512 on the MCAT.

I interviewed at three schools this cycle. Waitlisted at one, rejected by the other, and got into Sackler in Israel.

I have 200+ hours of clinical volunteering, 300 hours of shadowing (which I did this cycle and it wasn't on my primary app - so that's something new I could add), LOTS of leadership positions and volunteering. No research other than the thesis I wrote for my Master's. This year I also started teaching MCAT classes for the Princeton Review, and volunteering at a homeless shelter for women in downtown.

Should I stick to Sackler (which is considered much better than the carribean) and go to Israel?

Despite a pretty good match this year (I think: http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/), I might be risking not getting that good of a residency in four years when they combine the matches. I'm not trying to get into such competitive residencies anyway. I'd be happy with anesthesiology or going IM and specializing.

And before you tell me to do research on the school, I already have. I'm trying to get some opinions on the combined match.

Or should I apply again with some DO schools.

What do you think?

I would apply again to some DO schools. You have a significant chance of going unmatched in 4 years if you go to Sackler.

 

[soccerman11]

Forgot to mention, I want to come back to LA or California for my residency.

 

[soccerman11]

I get the impression that many Sackler grads have family connections at US hospitals that help them secure competitive US residencies. If you've got these connections and want to stay in the northeast, Sackler seems to be a good plan --

Don't have those connections, and I want to come back to LA

 

[deleted731525]

Don't have those connections, and I want to come back to LA

I don't think it is really family connections. If you look at the match list they match at a lot of the same places year after year. For example they match at least one usually 2 people to Mt Sinai IM every year. It would be a pretty large coincidence if they have people with that connection every year.

 

[mpdoc2]

Don't have those connections, and I want to come back to LA

Good luck getting in LA as an IMG

 

[Mad Jack]

I would apply again to some DO schools. You have a significant chance of going unmatched in 4 years if you go to Sackler.

Sackler matches better than any DO school in the country, and rarely has any students that go unmatched. I doubt that trend will change. Have you looked at their match list?

http://sacklermedicine.us/wp-content/uploads/CLASS-2014-2015-RESIDENCY-APPOINTMENTS.pdf

http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

They aren't some Caribbean diploma mill, they're one of the most highly regarded schools one can attend outside of a US MD institution.

 

[mpdoc2]

Sackler matches better than any DO school in the country, and rarely has any students that go unmatched. I doubt that trend will change. Have you looked at their match list?

http://sacklermedicine.us/wp-content/uploads/CLASS-2014-2015-RESIDENCY-APPOINTMENTS.pdf

http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

They aren't some Caribbean diploma mill, they're one of the most highly regarded schools one can attend outside of a US MD institution.

Do you have the list of unmatched candidates? Pretty close to 100% of DO graduates match, that's definitely not the case for Sackler. I (as an MD involved in an ACGME resident admissions) would take a DO graduate over a Sackler graduate. Sackler is in the business of selling degrees. Make sure you get your info from someone other than the salesman.

 

[Mad Jack]

Do you have the list of unmatched candidates? Pretty close to 100% of DO graduates match, that's definitely not the case for Sackler. I (as an MD involved in an ACGME resident admissions) would take a DO graduate over a Sackler graduate. Sackler is in the business of selling degrees. Make sure you get your info from someone other than the salesman.

Aside from your personal preferences, you have no idea what you're talking about. They take 63 students per year, and matched 67 into US programs this year (likely due to people getting pushed forward a year care of failing a class, taking time off, or w/e). Their reputation in NYC and the Northeast is far beyond every DO school. To say that a well-respected medical school that operates out of a university that is consistently ranked right around 50th best in the world is a diploma mill looking to sell degrees is ignorant nonsense.

 

[mpdoc2]

Aside from your personal preferences, you have no idea what you're talking about. They take 63 students per year, and matched 67 into US programs this year (likely due to people getting pushed forward a year care of failing a class, taking time off, or w/e). Their reputation in NYC and the Northeast is far beyond every DO school. To say that a well-respected medical school that operates out of a university that is consistently ranked right around 50th best in the world is a diploma mill looking to sell degrees is ignorant nonsense.

I beg to differ. I'm an attending in a highly regarded program in New York. A Sackler grad has never been accepted to our program. I've only known 1 person who got accepted from Sackler to a residency program in new york. She went to the bottom rung of the IM programs in New York. The fact that you'd encourage someone to be an IMG over an AMG speaks volumes.

 

[Mad Jack]

I beg to differ. I'm an attending in a highly regarded program in New York. A Sackler grad has never been accepted to our program. I've only known 1 person who got accepted from Sackler and she went to the bottom rung of the IM programs in New York.

Here's their IM matches for the last few years. They aren't fantastic, but they're at least on part with DO schools, with some matches at places that never accept DOs as a matter of policy:

2016
Beaumont Health System-MI
Case Western/MetroHealth Med Ctr-OH
Eisenhower Medical Ctr-CA
Hofstra NSLIJ SOM-Lenox Hill Hosp-NY
Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai-NY (2)
Lincoln Medical Center *
Maimonides Med Ctr-NY
Nassau Univ Med Ctr-NY
New York Methodist Hospital
NYU Lutheran Medical Ctr-NY (2)
NYU School of Medicine
St. Barnabas Hospital-NY
St. Joseph Hospital SCL Health-CO
Stamford Hospital/Columbia-CT
Stony Brook Teach Hosps-NY
U Illinois COM-Chicago (2)
West Suburban Med Ctr-IL
Winthrop-University Hosp-NY

2015
Albany Medical Center – NY
Allegheny General Hospital – PA
Case Western/MetroHealth Medical Center – OH
Drexel University College Of Medicine/ Hahnemann University Hospital
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai – NY
Icahn School of Medicine St. Luke’s-Roosevelt – NY
St. Mary’s Medical Center -SF-CA
St. Vincent Hospital – MA
SUNY Health Science Center Brooklyn –NY (2)
University of Chicago Medical Center – IL
Yale-New Haven Hospital – CT

2014
Brookdale Hospital Medical Center- NY
Icahn SOM St. Lukes-Roosevelt-NY (2)
Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai-NY (2)
Mt. Sinai Med. Ctr.-Miami-FL
Jewish Hospital-OH
U. Illinois COM-Chicago
Maimonides Med. Ctr.- NY *
Einstein/Montefiore Med. Ctr.-NY

And that's just IM- their specialty matches are fantastic.
ORTHOPAEDIC SURGERY -Cedars-Sinai Medical Center – CA
RADIOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC -Massachusetts General Hospital
PLASTIC & RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY -University of North Carolina Hospitals
UROLOGY -University of Illinois College of Medicine – Chicago
RADIOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC -Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai-NY
OPHTHALMOLOGY -University of Virginia
DERMATOLOGY -Einstein/Montefiore Medical Center – NY -Emory University School of Medicine – GA
OTOLARYNGOLOGY Hosp of the Univ of PA - LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
RADIOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC Maimonides Med Ctr-NY (2) - UCLA Medical Center-CA
RADIATION ONCOLOGY Beaumont Health System- MI - Tufts Medical Center – MA

They've got solid matches in general surg, ob, and many other fields as well. I mean, they're pretty legit is all I'm sayin'. And their school has both a smaller class size, more research, and a far larger teaching infrastructure than any DO school in the country- if they were just about money, they could easily go the SGU route and crank out 800 students a year. But they just do 63, like they've always done, because they don't want to bring any more students in than their 6,000 hospital beds and teaching infrastructure can reasonably support. Contrast that to even many DO schools, where students are scattered to various community settings of widely varying quality, research opportunities are often few and far between, and class sizes expand seemingly without end to boost those tuition dollars and I've got to say that it seems pretty cut and dry that their students receive an education that is likely on par with (and possibly better than) what many DO students receive.

 

[deleted731525]

And compare those matches to the acgme matches here: https://tourocom.touro.edu/academics/do-program/the-match/match-results/

Every bottom tier IM residency that appears on the Sackler lists also appears on the Touro list. And that isnt even getting into AOA programs. Touro and Sackler likely have similar entrance stats too so its not like the Sackler kids are just getting better step scores. At the end of the day there is US allopathic seniors and varying degrees of everything else. Sackler and DO are both towards the top of the everything else.

 

[deleted731525]

Aside from your personal preferences, you have no idea what you're talking about. They take 63 students per year, and matched 67 into US programs this year (likely due to people getting pushed forward a year care of failing a class, taking time off, or w/e). Their reputation in NYC and the Northeast is far beyond every DO school. To say that a well-respected medical school that operates out of a university that is consistently ranked right around 50th best in the world is a diploma mill looking to sell degrees is ignorant nonsense.

Especially when Sackler is far cheaper than most DO schools and accepts far fewer students than most DO schools. Not hating on DO schools, just saying that calling Sackler a degree mill is silly.

 

[Mad Jack]

Especially when Sackler is far cheaper than most DO schools and accepts far fewer students than most DO schools. Not hating on DO schools, just saying that calling Sackler a degree mill is silly.

Same. Like, I'm obviously fine with DO schools (being a DO student and all) but Sackler is a pretty legit school all around. They have a class size that is cozy even compared to most LCME schools, and a massive teaching hospital network to boot.

 

[JCK51792]

CN"U" has not lived up to its provisional accreditation.
Their behavior has defied all reason.
I can only hope that their students will be able to overcome the stigma.

LCME increased their class size to 90 students for the next incoming class, would they do that if they were aware of any serious red flags? Can't say I know much about the school besides what's been said on these forums but, as a Cali resident living OOS, I would love to come back and was thinking of applying to CNU as a backup this coming cycle.

Also, to not be completely off topic, I think Sackler medical school would be a great choice if you have connections to Israel that would make the transition easier. I would apply there, but it would be a major change to be so far away from anyone I know.

Also, out of curiosity, why IMGs from Sackler seen in a much more positive light than IMGs from, say, Australia(UQueensland) or Ireland (Atlantic Bridge) (or any other first world medical school, for that matter)?

 

[Mansamusa]

LCME increased their class size to 90 students for the next incoming class, would they do that if they were aware of any serious red flags? Can't say I know much about the school besides what's been said on these forums but, as a Cali resident living OOS, I would love to come back and was thinking of applying to CNU as a backup this coming cycle.

Also, to not be completely off topic, I think Sackler medical school would be a great choice if you have connections to Israel that would make the transition easier. I would apply there, but it would be a major change to be so far away from anyone I know.

Also, out of curiosity, why IMGs from Sackler seen in a much more positive light than IMGs from, say, Australia(UQueensland) or Ireland (Atlantic Bridge) (or any other first world medical school, for that matter)?

http://www.mededpath.org/residency_match.html

Uq-Ochsner isn't bad. If I went international, that is where I would go. I'm went down to Tulane and I met some UQ students and they were all pretty comfortable with their choice. Ochsner has a lot of resources and many of its own residency programs. They also have some joint residency programs with Tulane and LSU. Like the Tulane-Ochsner neurosurgery residency, which is adding another seat. There is a chance that a student could even get a neursurg residency there. There is also urology, ortho, ophto, and fellowships and some research activity to go with it. Not a bad deal as far as IMG goes...plus you get to live in both Brisbane and NOLA

http://www.mededpath.org/our_students_usmle.html And they are even honest about being a little lower than the national average on step.

 

[Goro]

My gawd! They've only been operating for six months and they get a size increase???!!!

LCME ought to ashamed of themselves. They are more afraid of

I always amazed at what a boatload of lawyers can acheive.