Sad job market for future clinical psychologists

[ProspectivePsyD]

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For those wondering if you still have the energy to go to grad school, read the below very depressing article on the APA website (under Grad Student / Education, there are other very pertinent and interesting articles). I am keeping my head up and sticking with my plan to go, it is however very disconcerting to hear how saturated the market is.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/may00/postdoc.html

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just an FYI, the article is 8 years old.

There are some concerns with the market, though if people go about it and plan accordingly, they can have a comfortable career.

 

[Ollie123]

If someone limits themselves to a very small geographic region, then yes, one will have problems. Particularly in Cali, which is one of the more saturated markets to begin with.

Calling it a "postdoc trap", frankly, sounds like a load of BS from people who didn't plan accordingly. There are TONS of postdoc spots that go unfilled because of no qualified applicants. Many are research-oriented, but there are plenty that are also set up to help someone get clinical hours if they want to.

Let this article inspire you to work hard to make sure you're competitive, but don't get yourself into a panic🙂 I kept hearing horror stories about this while I was applying and was worried when I started, but my fears have dissipated going through school seeing that no one really seems to have a problem unless they are deadset on a certain region. Those people know it going in and just have to be willing to make the sacrifice, knowing that it will potentially mean some difficulties, but staying in one location is important to them so they find a way to deal with it.

 

[ProspectivePsyD]

Just an FYI, the article is 8 years old.

There are some concerns with the market, though if people go about it and plan accordingly, they can have a comfortable career.

Thanks for pointing out the time lapse, I cant believe I didnt check the date !!

 

[ProspectivePsyD]

If someone limits themselves to a very small geographic region, then yes, one will have problems. Particularly in Cali, which is one of the more saturated markets to begin with.

Calling it a "postdoc trap", frankly, sounds like a load of BS from people who didn't plan accordingly. There are TONS of postdoc spots that go unfilled because of no qualified applicants. Many are research-oriented, but there are plenty that are also set up to help someone get clinical hours if they want to.

Let this article inspire you to work hard to make sure you're competitive, but don't get yourself into a panic🙂 I kept hearing horror stories about this while I was applying and was worried when I started, but my fears have dissipated going through school seeing that no one really seems to have a problem unless they are deadset on a certain region. Those people know it going in and just have to be willing to make the sacrifice, knowing that it will potentially mean some difficulties, but staying in one location is important to them so they find a way to deal with it.

Thanks so for the insight, this definitely allayed some concern.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thanks for pointing out the time lapse, I cant believe I didnt check the date !!

No worries!

I'm always open to people finding interesting articles to talk about, so I appreciate it.

 

[1Harvey1]

I think that the job market is saturated in some areas across numerous fields and not just psychology. This is an old article but I have heard similar things from other students. One of the commonalities is the fact that these people are not very flexible with their geographical location. When I started looking for my first job, I was offered at least 6 different positions at a pretty decent pay for my first gig. Become a family physician or a lawyer and try to start a practice in a saturated area and the same thing will happen, only with much more in student loans. Good luck.

 

[coloradocutter]

Did you note that the student interviewed for the article is looking for positions near Coarsegold (see below). So, this is a very isolated part of California just noting - but perhaps the student is looking all over California and hasn't found anything.

From wikipedia - "Coarsegold is an unincorporated community in Madera County, California, USA. The name derives from the California Gold Rush of the mid-1800s, when prospectors discovered coarse lumps of gold in a nearby creek. At one time, several dozen gold mines operated in the area. The population from the 2000 census for the 93614 zip code is 9,391. A recent news article placed the 2007 Coarsegold population at 17,000....The Coarsegold Historic Village is located on Highway 41 between Fresno and the southern entrance to Yosemite National Park at an altitude of approximately 2000 feet. It is a very small town but does boast a few amenities such as a post office, a market, hardware store, bank, florist, party store and a few restaurants plus tourist shops."

 

[Ollie123]

Well it said she looked in the 3 counties surrounding her. Even that doesn't sound like a lot though given most people at least look within regions like "Northeast USA" or something like that, if not nationally. I can actually see it both ways - available post-docs around her might be less competitive, but its not terribly surprising if there aren't any post-docs in a town of 17,000 people relative to the major academic cities.

So I guess I'll amend my advice to say if you want to stay in one location throughout your training, you better make sure you know what is available going in, and then be a seriously top-notch student🙂 There are relatively few competitive careers where one can be really picky about locations - lots of people have to move for their first real job, its just kind of a fact of life, as unfortunate as it may be.

 

[August2008]

On a brighter note, this is a newer article (2006) I found:
http://gradpsych.apags.org/sep06/jobs.html

My favorite quote from the article is: "Those long hours in the library, the lab, the classroom and the clinic seem to be leading to bright futures.” >>Lets hope so!

 

[deleted190534]

On a brighter note, this is a newer article (2006) I found:
http://gradpsych.apags.org/sep06/jobs.html

My favorite quote from the article is: "Those long hours in the library, the lab, the classroom and the clinic seem to be leading to bright futures." >>Lets hope so!

Bravo! This thread was really starting to stress me out! LOL

 

[socal34]

It certainly is a competitive market. However, a speciality in university mental health is an increasingly strong choice. Almost daily new positions at university clinics and centers are posted ( even in the saturated state of California). So, if you are concerned, consider an internship at a university setting and then you will be quite marketable. Just my two cents...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

What a timely comic by Piled Higher & Deeper!

 

[Psychmeout]

Hi all,

I am not sure whether this is applicable to this thread......but, I have been noticing that in general psychologists are having more difficulty in finding jobs and being appreciated for their status because many places would rather hire an MSW, LCSW, MFT, etc because they are CHEAPER.

I am infuriated with this problem because in many settings, they (i.e., MSW, LCSW, MFT's) are acting as psychologists (e.g., coming up with diagnosis, developing treatment plans, conducting therapy). I am at a practicum site right now where the MFT, whom I might add has no idea what the hell she is doing, is the "one" who is in charge pretty much of all the mental health cases. There is a supervising psychologist; however, he is busy doing more administrative work (WTH!).

The training that MFT, MSW, LCSW, etc., receive is no WAY comparable to what a Ph.D. psychologist receives. Unfortunately, the general public does not understand that and looks for the most cheapest form of treatment. To make matters worse, managed care is not willing to compensate a psychologist the pay they deserve, instead they farm over the work to the MFT's etc (ugh!).

I know that this issue is not a concern with the full-time academic jobs, but, I really wanted my career to be 50/50 in terms of academic and clinical work.

Am I the only one that is infuriated with this issue? Anyone else who wants to vent, please feel free 😀

 

[coloradocutter]

Well it said she looked in the 3 counties surrounding her. Even that doesn't sound like a lot though given most people at least look within regions like "Northeast USA" or something like that, if not nationally. I can actually see it both ways - available post-docs around her might be less competitive, but its not terribly surprising if there aren't any post-docs in a town of 17,000 people relative to the major academic cities.

I also googled Coarsegold further to find out that they have tons of tarantulas, are home to the annual Coarsegold Tarantula Festival and that running over these creepy-crawlies is considered very bad form in this tiny hamlet. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I agree. I don't want to turn it into bashing MS level people, because they fill a very valuable role, though there is definite encroachment. Clinical Psychology is getting pushed farther into niches, as the 'generalist' is becoming, 'give me the least expensive option'.....which is not a doctoral level person.

 

[PsyDr]

if you are offering a higher quality product for a higher price, then expect a smaller customer base.


instead of getting angry about free market economics, why not think of ways to innovate the market?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

instead of getting angry about free market economics, why not think of ways to innovate the market?

I have my niche figured out, though I'm frustrated by the general trend of the profession. We need to have better and more cohesive leadership and political representation. I'm hoping to do some work in that area, though it will take many more than just myself to help make meaningful change.

 

[deleted190534]

Free market economies...yes. Oversimplification...yes.

The changes have a lot more to do with lobbying power for licensure than anything else. There's plenty of data available on this through a simple Google search.

 

[elite1]

Well, what have you doing in terms of advocacy? Everybody on here complains abuot infringement into our scope of practice, but how many of you are members of organizations that protect us (APA, NAPPP, Division 13 of the APA, your state psychological association)??? If you aren't going to try to fix the problem, then don't complain about the problem!

Hi all,

I am not sure whether this is applicable to this thread......but, I have been noticing that in general psychologists are having more difficulty in finding jobs and being appreciated for their status because many places would rather hire an MSW, LCSW, MFT, etc because they are CHEAPER.

I am infuriated with this problem because in many settings, they (i.e., MSW, LCSW, MFT's) are acting as psychologists (e.g., coming up with diagnosis, developing treatment plans, conducting therapy). I am at a practicum site right now where the MFT, whom I might add has no idea what the hell she is doing, is the "one" who is in charge pretty much of all the mental health cases. There is a supervising psychologist; however, he is busy doing more administrative work (WTH!).

The training that MFT, MSW, LCSW, etc., receive is no WAY comparable to what a Ph.D. psychologist receives. Unfortunately, the general public does not understand that and looks for the most cheapest form of treatment. To make matters worse, managed care is not willing to compensate a psychologist the pay they deserve, instead they farm over the work to the MFT's etc (ugh!).

I know that this issue is not a concern with the full-time academic jobs, but, I really wanted my career to be 50/50 in terms of academic and clinical work.

Am I the only one that is infuriated with this issue? Anyone else who wants to vent, please feel free 😀

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Well, what have you doing in terms of advocacy? Everybody on here complains abuot infringement into our scope of practice, but how many of you are members of organizations that protect us (APA, NAPPP, Division 13 of the APA, your state psychological association)??? If you aren't going to try to fix the problem, then don't complain about the problem!

*Raises hand*

I've lobbied on the hill and I am trying to support organizations that have my interests at heart. Unfortunately it has been harder than I thought to find that. 🙁

 

[Ollie123]

Well, what have you doing in terms of advocacy? Everybody on here complains abuot infringement into our scope of practice, but how many of you are members of organizations that protect us (APA, NAPPP, Division 13 of the APA, your state psychological association)??? If you aren't going to try to fix the problem, then don't complain about the problem!

APA member here though this is one issue I'm not TOO vocal on since I have no intentions of going into practice. Have been looking for ways to get more involved in the large organizations, though it is more likely to be a specialty group than something like APA.

That being said, seeing as how it seems APA and NAPPP seem to like hurting our profession as much as helping, I wouldn't begrudge anyone who didn't want to support them.

I'm not terribly sorry to see "generalists" being on the decline from the doctoral world though. I think its just a matter of the profession evolving and actually a sign that we are doing well and advancing as a field. That isn't to say I don't have problems with reimbursement rates and other issues, but that one doesn't bother me much.

 

[Psychmeout]

Well, what have you doing in terms of advocacy? Everybody on here complains abuot infringement into our scope of practice, but how many of you are members of organizations that protect us (APA, NAPPP, Division 13 of the APA, your state psychological association)??? If you aren't going to try to fix the problem, then don't complain about the problem!

I am a member of APA and yes, I have brought this issue up before. The APA is aware of this problem (check out this months APA monitor, it is briefly addressed).

 

[Psychmeout]

I agree, it's like making a Certified Nursing Assistant, Chair of Neurology.

HA HA. Totally true!

 

[Psychmeout]

I have my niche figured out, though I'm frustrated by the general trend of the profession. We need to have better and more cohesive leadership and political representation. I'm hoping to do some work in that area, though it will take many more than just myself to help make meaningful change.

I completely agree. That is sort of why I brought up the issue. Sometimes you know that change needs to be made but wonder whether others in the profession feel the same. I wasn't trying to turn it into an MS bashing fest.