Saint James School of Medicine - honest review from current student

[Bill Harvey]

The goal of this post is to provide prospective medical students with some information that will likely not be volunteered to you by the admissions office of the school.

First off, I go to SJSM. This is a real school. It’s accredited (provisional for the year via CAAM-HP), there are 2 Caribbean campuses (Anguilla and Saint Vincent) and a head office in Park Ridge Illinois. The tuition is less than some of the other Caribbean schools and there is a possibility that you can become a doctor by attending this school. Of course, the outcome depends on you.

The numbers (to the best of my knowledge – nothing is posted by the school):

Required GPA for entrance as of 2019 (newly instated): 2.0 on a 4.0 scale

Attrition rate ~ 86%

NBME comprehensive first time pass rate (The school requires that you pass this before you can write the USMLE): ~ 8%

USMLE pass rate: 97%

Pros of the school:

· Provisional CAAM-HP accreditation

· There are doctors practicing medicine that graduated from SJSM

· Less expensive than the bigger Caribbean schools

Cons of the school:

· Unethical business practices

· An education that doesn’t adequately prepare you to pass the USMLE

· Lack of access to educational loans

I need to be honest and say that I’ve had a really hard time at SJSM. I’ve watched my classmates drop out, semester after semester. Some left because they couldn’t handle it academically. Some left because they couldn’t handle the living conditions and others because they got frustrated by the way the school does business and transferred to another medical school. The rest left because they were worried that their chance of making it through the program wasn’t worth the six figures of debt they were going to incur.

Since SJSM is accredited and has students that match, I can say truthfully that if you have everything else going for you that you can make it through and become a doctor. However, statistics on how many of the students that start the program and those that finish is dismal. Many classes end up with less than 10 students by the end of basic sciences. You need to ask yourself: “am I one of those 10 students?”

If you want to be one of those few that make it to writing the USMLE and beyond, you need to be tough and have a great support system in place. To start, you need to be financially secure. SJSM entices financially vulnerable students with financing that hinges on students enrolling in online master’s programs through schools like Walden University. Many students do this. The good thing is that you get a master’s degree out of it. The bad thing is that you must pay for the master’s degree and do the work required for a master’s degree while you’re doing medical school. Some students can’t handle the work load and decide to transfer to a more expensive school that qualifies for loans rather than go with the cheaper but harder to finance option. If you’ve got a spare six figures or have family that funds your education, this part doesn’t play into the equation.

If you’re considering a Caribbean school, you don’t have a GPA that will get you into a proper American school. That might be okay, but probably not. You must be honest with yourself. If you got a 2.0 at any university, in any program you’re not magically going to become a great student in medical school. Things happen. Maybe you had some serious setbacks during undergrad and you got a less than stellar gpa as a result. You know yourself. With a 2.0 gpa admission cut-off, people with below average academic performance can pay their tuition to SJSM and attend medical school. Chances are, you will fail. You won’t fail right away. You’ll probably hold on for dear life, scraping by until the NBME individual subject exams (standardized) make finishing the program untenable.

As for the educational component of the school, the quality of education is variable. Many of the professors are well versed in their field and are passionate about education while others are woefully inadequate. Ultimately, you need to be the kind of person that could teach your self medicine from home, as if it were an online program. To succeed you’re going to have to go online and learn from other med students about how they study, what resources they use, what is high yield and so on. You cannot rely on the school to prepare you for the USMLE.

SJSM would have you believe that they put a lot of money into their faculty, and that is why the campus facilities are so rudimentary. SJSM does not pay their faculty well. Also, they don’t even get sick days. If they miss even a single day, they get their wages docked. The faculty is diverse. The instructors are from different counties and are sometimes at high levels in their fields. So, if the faculty is accomplished, why would they work for less than they could get in the US? The answer is because they can’t find jobs in the US or they aren’t allowed to work in the US because they don’t have visas. It is my opinion that SJSM exploits most of the faculty by paying them less than they’d earn in the US. In some instances, SJSM will have an instructor that practiced medicine in the US. No sane person would give up their MD job in the US to teach at SJSM. The only time this happens is when the instructor committed a serious crime and got stripped of their license to practice medicine.

SJSM is a for-profit business. This isn’t a problem in and of itself. Caribbean schools provide many students with a chance to realize their dream of becoming a doctor and this can be a good deal for both parties. However, problems arise when the balance between profits and obligations to the students (customers) become heavily skewed in favor of the school, when lying becomes normal and illegal activities occur. If you have a legitimate concern about how the school does business, they will lie to you or ignore you. I’ve heard so many disappointing stories from hard-working students, many of which participate in student government or other volunteer groups whose goal is to add value to SJSM and the students.

Here is a recent example of a shady/frustrating experience students had to deal with: SJSM, part way through a semester decided that they were going to have students write exam style questions for marks that would contribute to their course grades. The rumor was that the school was planning on setting up a for-profit quiz bank that would make money for the owner of the school. The SGA wanted to confirm that this wasn’t going to happen. They spoke with the faculty and were told that nothing could be done and that if students didn’t write the questions that they would have grades taken off their other work as a punishment for not writing the questions. Eventually the SGA got ahold of the provost and wrote to him about what was going on. They told the school that using the student’s assigned work without their permission was against the law and that the school’s accreditation mattered more that the money they could make from the questions written by their students. The school backed down and reinstated the old grading scheme for the classes. The point of this one example is that the school is run by advantage takers. They see this as a business and will seek out every opportunity (legal or not) to make some money.

The newly lowered gpa requirement is in place so that they can get more tuition money even though it means that an even higher percentage of students won’t make it through the program. I wouldn’t have an issue with the low gpa cut-off if prospective students were given the real numbers on how many students make it through each semester. That way you could at least make an informed decision. Unfortunately, the truth is denied to you.

I wish I could recommend SJSM to other med school hopefuls. This is the school I go to and will likely graduate with a degree from. I worry about what would happen if the school closed due to lack of attendance. How would I get my transcripts? What would potential employers think of me when I tell them that the school I went to doesn’t exist anymore? Would my patients trust my judgment if they found out where I went? I really do want SJSM to succeed, because their success is good for me too. What I can’t do is stand by and say nothing while another incoming class with smiling faces comes through the doors of the school only to see them slowly fall apart like all the classes I’ve seen before them.

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[Zifish]

I do my grocery shopping at the Massy Supermarket next to the SJSM in St Vincent, and have a few classmates who transferred out from there. I've always wondered about this school, thank you for sharing!

 

[dOc.Blaqueck]

The goal of this post is to provide prospective medical students with some information that will likely not be volunteered to you by the admissions office of the school.

First off, I go to SJSM. This is a real school. It’s accredited (provisional for the year via CAAM-HP), there are 2 Caribbean campuses (Anguilla and Saint Vincent) and a head office in Park Ridge Illinois. The tuition is less than some of the other Caribbean schools and there is a possibility that you can become a doctor by attending this school. Of course, the outcome depends on you.

The numbers (to the best of my knowledge – nothing is posted by the school):

Required GPA for entrance as of 2019 (newly instated): 2.0 on a 4.0 scale

Attrition rate ~ 86%

NBME comprehensive first time pass rate (The school requires that you pass this before you can write the USMLE): ~ 8%

USMLE pass rate: 97%

Pros of the school:

· Provisional CAAM-HP accreditation

· There are doctors practicing medicine that graduated from SJSM

· Less expensive than the bigger Caribbean schools

Cons of the school:

· Unethical business practices

· An education that doesn’t adequately prepare you to pass the USMLE

· Lack of access to educational loans

I need to be honest and say that I’ve had a really hard time at SJSM. I’ve watched my classmates drop out, semester after semester. Some left because they couldn’t handle it academically. Some left because they couldn’t handle the living conditions and others because they got frustrated by the way the school does business and transferred to another medical school. The rest left because they were worried that their chance of making it through the program wasn’t worth the six figures of debt they were going to incur.

Since SJSM is accredited and has students that match, I can say truthfully that if you have everything else going for you that you can make it through and become a doctor. However, statistics on how many of the students that start the program and those that finish is dismal. Many classes end up with less than 10 students by the end of basic sciences. You need to ask yourself: “am I one of those 10 students?”

If you want to be one of those few that make it to writing the USMLE and beyond, you need to be tough and have a great support system in place. To start, you need to be financially secure. SJSM entices financially vulnerable students with financing that hinges on students enrolling in online master’s programs through schools like Walden University. Many students do this. The good thing is that you get a master’s degree out of it. The bad thing is that you must pay for the master’s degree and do the work required for a master’s degree while you’re doing medical school. Some students can’t handle the work load and decide to transfer to a more expensive school that qualifies for loans rather than go with the cheaper but harder to finance option. If you’ve got a spare six figures or have family that funds your education, this part doesn’t play into the equation.

If you’re considering a Caribbean school, you don’t have a GPA that will get you into a proper American school. That might be okay, but probably not. You must be honest with yourself. If you got a 2.0 at any university, in any program you’re not magically going to become a great student in medical school. Things happen. Maybe you had some serious setbacks during undergrad and you got a less than stellar gpa as a result. You know yourself. With a 2.0 gpa admission cut-off, people with below average academic performance can pay their tuition to SJSM and attend medical school. Chances are, you will fail. You won’t fail right away. You’ll probably hold on for dear life, scraping by until the NBME individual subject exams (standardized) make finishing the program untenable.

As for the educational component of the school, the quality of education is variable. Many of the professors are well versed in their field and are passionate about education while others are woefully inadequate. Ultimately, you need to be the kind of person that could teach your self medicine from home, as if it were an online program. To succeed you’re going to have to go online and learn from other med students about how they study, what resources they use, what is high yield and so on. You cannot rely on the school to prepare you for the USMLE.

SJSM would have you believe that they put a lot of money into their faculty, and that is why the campus facilities are so rudimentary. SJSM does not pay their faculty well. Also, they don’t even get sick days. If they miss even a single day, they get their wages docked. The faculty is diverse. The instructors are from different counties and are sometimes at high levels in their fields. So, if the faculty is accomplished, why would they work for less than they could get in the US? The answer is because they can’t find jobs in the US or they aren’t allowed to work in the US because they don’t have visas. It is my opinion that SJSM exploits most of the faculty by paying them less than they’d earn in the US. In some instances, SJSM will have an instructor that practiced medicine in the US. No sane person would give up their MD job in the US to teach at SJSM. The only time this happens is when the instructor committed a serious crime and got stripped of their license to practice medicine.

SJSM is a for-profit business. This isn’t a problem in and of itself. Caribbean schools provide many students with a chance to realize their dream of becoming a doctor and this can be a good deal for both parties. However, problems arise when the balance between profits and obligations to the students (customers) become heavily skewed in favor of the school, when lying becomes normal and illegal activities occur. If you have a legitimate concern about how the school does business, they will lie to you or ignore you. I’ve heard so many disappointing stories from hard-working students, many of which participate in student government or other volunteer groups whose goal is to add value to SJSM and the students.

Here is a recent example of a shady/frustrating experience students had to deal with: SJSM, part way through a semester decided that they were going to have students write exam style questions for marks that would contribute to their course grades. The rumor was that the school was planning on setting up a for-profit quiz bank that would make money for the owner of the school. The SGA wanted to confirm that this wasn’t going to happen. They spoke with the faculty and were told that nothing could be done and that if students didn’t write the questions that they would have grades taken off their other work as a punishment for not writing the questions. Eventually the SGA got ahold of the provost and wrote to him about what was going on. They told the school that using the student’s assigned work without their permission was against the law and that the school’s accreditation mattered more that the money they could make from the questions written by their students. The school backed down and reinstated the old grading scheme for the classes. The point of this one example is that the school is run by advantage takers. They see this as a business and will seek out every opportunity (legal or not) to make some money.

The newly lowered gpa requirement is in place so that they can get more tuition money even though it means that an even higher percentage of students won’t make it through the program. I wouldn’t have an issue with the low gpa cut-off if prospective students were given the real numbers on how many students make it through each semester. That way you could at least make an informed decision. Unfortunately, the truth is denied to you.

I wish I could recommend SJSM to other med school hopefuls. This is the school I go to and will likely graduate with a degree from. I worry about what would happen if the school closed due to lack of attendance. How would I get my transcripts? What would potential employers think of me when I tell them that the school I went to doesn’t exist anymore? Would my patients trust my judgment if they found out where I went? I really do want SJSM to succeed, because their success is good for me too. What I can’t do is stand by and say nothing while another incoming class with smiling faces comes through the doors of the school only to see them slowly fall apart like all the classes I’ve seen before them.

Do you still attend the school? Does it seem like things are getting better?

 

[Bill Harvey]

Do you still attend the school? Does it seem like things are getting better?

I do. Things are pretty much the same. The School got ACCM accreditation, so that's good. I'm close to being done on the island, so I'll be gearing up for the USMLE and then clinicals.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

Daughter just graduated. She is applying to residency programs in California,Florida, and Texas. She received excellent letters of recommendation.
She had no problems with the school.

 

[gyngyn]

Daughter just graduated. She is applying to residency programs in California,Florida, and Texas. She received excellent letters of recommendation.
She had no problems with the school.

I thought she graduated three years ago...

 

[roboplus]

Daughter just graduated. She is applying to residency programs in California,Florida, and Texas. She received excellent letters of recommendation.
She had no problems with the school.

She was in her third year in 2015... She only just graduated 4 years after that?

 

[Goro]

Daughter just graduated. She is applying to residency programs in California,Florida, and Texas. She received excellent letters of recommendation.
She had no problems with the school.

Is St James School of Medicine Legit?

I know they are accredited but can you work in the US if you attend this school? My brother got accepted into SJSM but since its in the caribbean and not one of the Big 4 schools I just want to know if its possible to find a job in the US after graduating from there.

forums.studentdoctor.net

She was an MSIII in 2015, and she graduated in 2019? It took her some 7 years to graduate?

And she doesn't have a residency?

That's, umm, not adding up. At a minimum, there were problems.

 

[deleted859689]

Daughter just graduated. She is applying to residency programs in California,Florida, and Texas. She received excellent letters of recommendation.
She had no problems with the school.

How much do you get paid to do this?

 

[Bill Harvey]

Daughter just graduated. She is applying to residency programs in California,Florida, and Texas. She received excellent letters of recommendation.
She had no problems with the school.

7 years in a program that's designed to take less than 3.5, and not a single problem? Maybe we have different working definitions of the word "problem." I've suffered from cognitive dissonance while trying to think through how I've been given the opportunity to study medicine through a corporation that sucks the life out of me. Maybe your daughter had a very different experience than me, but I think it's more likely that she's not giving you all the details.

 

[deleted888443]

How much do you get paid to do this?

Its a school employee, guaranteed

 

[doctorsmom5594]

7 years in a program that's designed to take less than 3.5, and not a single problem? Maybe we have different working definitions of the word "problem." I've suffered from cognitive dissonance while trying to think through how I've been given the opportunity to study medicine through a corporation that sucks the life out of me. Maybe your daughter had a very different experience than me, but I think it's more likely that she's not giving you all the details.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

She started Sept 2014, mspe shows graduation Sept 2019, she worked on a mph for a year, studied for step 1 for 2 or 3 months

 

[gyngyn]

She started Sept 2014, mspe shows graduation Sept 2019, she worked on a mph for a year, studied for step 1 for 2 or 3 months

On October 7, 2015 you said she was in her third year.
That doesn't seem to square with graduation this month, even with the world's longest MPH.

Can you tell us a bit more about her journey?

 

[doctorsmom5594]

I think I called her 3rd year when she got out of basic sciences. She did take time off between to study for step one, get married, have a baby and work on masters. She ended up taking off 18 or 19 months.
She hasn't had any problems with the school. She said if she had to do it over she would have stayed in NY and worked on a 2nd BA or BS to get her grade point average up to attend a lcme school. She said she feels you have advantages because of clinic time during basic sciences and away trips.
She had to spend much more time studying for boards.
Med school is very difficult and very expensive and many do not make it.
The head of the department just told her to also apply to top tier programs. He is also making a phone call on her behalf. If she did not have language skills, an additional degree, and a great step 2 score we would have been worried about residency. She worked very hard to do what she had to. Her friends that didn't match needed visas.
We attended graduation ceremony in May. I hope this helps.

 

[gyngyn]

I think I called her 3rd year when she got out of basic sciences. She did take time off between to study for step one, get married, have a baby and work on masters. She ended up taking off 18 or 19 months.
She hasn't had any problems with the school. She said if she had to do it over she would have stayed in NY and worked on a 2nd BA or BS to get her grade point average up to attend a lcme school. She said she feels you have advantages because of clinic time during basic sciences and away trips.
She had to spend much more time studying for boards.
Med school is very difficult and very expensive and many do not make it.
The head of the department just told her to also apply to top tier programs. He is also making a phone call on her behalf. If she did not have language skills, an additional degree, and a great step 2 score we would have been worried about residency. She worked very hard to do what she had to. Her friends that didn't match needed visas.
We attended graduation ceremony in May. I hope this helps.

Please let us know how her application cycle goes.

 

[Ryuzaki]

Yeah, I would not recommend this school at all, you're better off working and making money as an Uber driver for the amount of time/money you spend here and pick any other school.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

Please let us know how her application cycle goes.

She has one interview scheduled so far.

 

[gyngyn]

She has one interview scheduled so far.

Can you share which program? Step scores?
It might be helpful for others in this situation.

 

[Bill Harvey]

I’ve decided to provide an update to my original post as I imagine prospective and current SJSM students alike, would want some details about what to expect at the end of basic sciences and during the transition period to clinicals. I’d also like to provide a recap/update of the numbers I provided previously. Same standard disclaimer as before: I didn’t find these numbers from an official source. They are based on my personal observations and those of the students/ SJSM staff I’ve spoke with. It’s the best I can do given what is available to me.

It’s very difficult to distinguish between students that have dropped out of school fully, and those who drop out, then take some time off and then go to another school, or even those that took time off then came back to SJSM. For this reason, attrition rates are based only on how many people leave the school during a given semester. Perhaps some of these students come back and become doctors – this is possible.

The attrition rate is still quite high – I’d say at least 80% overall, if not higher. It depends which class you’re in.

The NBME CBSE pass rate is still ~8%. I’ve also come to realise that the NBME second attempt pass rate is only ~ 60%.

As for the USMLE pass rate – I don’t doubt that it’s as high as SJSM advertises. Students are not allowed to write it until they score a 195 USMLE equivalent on the NBME CBSE and no one in their right mind is going to risk their step score by writing it before they’re ready. How long it takes to get ready is the question students want to know. Especially since students must continue paying their tuition as if they were not taking any time to study for step/ NBME retake/ NBME 3rd attempt etc.

Based on my observations, a small percentage (~8%) of students pass the NBME CBSE on their first attempt right at the end of MD5 on the island. Prior to this, all MD5 students pay their clinical semester 1 tuition. Those students usually write their USMLE within a year of finishing basic sciences. If you did not pass your NBME on the first attempt, you must pay the school to attend a Kaplan medical review course (4 months). This is mandatory. You must pay this fee and have at least 80% attendance or you will be held in poor academic standing. Once you are done the Kaplan review course you are assigned a testing timeframe (2-week window) in which you must take the NBME CBSE retake exam. Prior to the retake you will have to pay for your clinical semester 2 tuition. If you do not, you will be held is poor financial standing. If you do not pass the NBME on your second attempt, you will be enrolled in mandatory academic counselling for a monthly fee to be paid to the school. If you do not do this, you will be help in poor academic and financial standing. This process continues until you pass your NBME or you drop out.

Once you pass the NBME, you register with the ECFMG and get ready to write the USMLE step 1 exam. This is the part that is guaranteed by the school.
I’m outlining this because I think that prospective students see the “USMLE step 1 guarantee” and think that SJSM is guaranteeing that they will prepare you academically to pass the step. That’s not what is going on here. A very rudimentary education is provided, and those students who can make something out of it, eventually pass the NBME and are then granted the right to sit for the step 1 exam. Most students aren’t even allowed to write the Step 1. They drop out before that happens.

Overall, my view of the school hasn’t changed since I wrote my original post. I’ve been generally critical of SJSM as an institution since I realized most students do not graduate. I suppose I could just be happy that I’m progressing through the program and classify the student who didn’t make it as contributors to keeping the lights on at the school, but I think that would be missing the point. The students that attend SJSM are often not cut out for medical school. Also, the school is predatory. It accepts students with 2.0 GPAs in any program.

You could be the sort of person that really believes in personal responsibility. You could think that if you’re bad at researching schools, or overly optimistic about your abilities, that you deserve to lose $100,000 to a for profit business venture (SJSM). If that’s how you think, then what I’m going on about won’t resonate with you. It is my belief, that regardless of an individual’s optimism, hope, perseverance, that a medical school should not be allowed to take advantage to the extent that SJSM is. There is a huge power/ knowledge imbalance between students and the school, yet there is no acknowledgment of this, or plan for addressing it. The school has a mission statement and a code of ethics that both stress the importance of trust, respect, ethical responsibilities etc., but falls short of practicing those ideals when it comes to interactions with the student body and prospective students.

The more I think of what I’ve seen and experienced the more I wonder if this model of education will remain in practice. It’s wild – and not in a good way. I went in thinking that a few people would drop out. I was expecting more to drop out than you would see in an American medical school, but not as many as I saw drop out.

I know this forum has lots of warnings about Caribbean medical school already. I’d like to say to anyone reading this that hasn’t already moved to the Caribbean to attend SJSM: Please be 100% honest with yourself. SJSM will sell you a bill of goods. They will tell you that you will become a doctor. Based on what I’ve seen, very few students that start the program graduate.

 

[brooks brother]

If a student does make it through, how long does it take usually to graduate, including the breaks to study for exams?

 

[SJSMSTUDENT]

A current student as well. Instead of being negative and talking just bad about the school you can be thankful that SJSM gave you a chance to be a doctor that u didn’t get in the US or Canada. In any carribean school whether it is the big 5 or not, u will have to rely on urself a lot and study on ur own to reach ur goal. If you a current student as you say , you should know that the school is doing changes, and improvements whether u admit it or not. You were part of the student government and saw what changes was going on. Yes the school is not perfect. Yes people end up dropping. Yes there is a big room for change. But hey thats like any carribean school. We have students that transferred from saint george school of medicine and found that SJSM is better.
For any prospective student i will tell you one something: Dont let any person with a certain point of view to shape ur decision or ur future.

 

[Bill Harvey]

If a student does make it through, how long does it take usually to graduate, including the breaks to study for exams?

I'd say 5 years to graduation. Some people have to repeat a semester or two, and most students have to take the Kaplan live course after MD5 as that's the only option if you don't pass the NBME CBSE on the first attempt. Some fail the NBME a second time, so that adds to the total. Then, most students take months if not a year to study for step. Clinicals are 80 weeks total, so if you want to break that 80 weeks up, you're adding to your total time spend in school. That's my estimate for the average. There are students that move quickly through the program - don't fail anything and study for step for a month or two, and can graduate in considerably less time (<4 years).

 

[Bill Harvey]

A current student as well. Instead of being negative and talking just bad about the school you can be thankful that SJSM gave you a chance to be a doctor that u didn’t get in the US or Canada. In any carribean school whether it is the big 5 or not, u will have to rely on urself a lot and study on ur own to reach ur goal. If you a current student as you say , you should know that the school is doing changes, and improvements whether u admit it or not. You were part of the student government and saw what changes was going on. Yes the school is not perfect. Yes people end up dropping. Yes there is a big room for change. But hey thats like any carribean school. We have students that transferred from saint george school of medicine and found that SJSM is better.
For any prospective student i will tell you one something: Dont let any person with a certain point of view to shape ur decision or ur future.

The goal of my post is to give people information that isn't easy to find, or is actively hidden by the school. I haven't attended any other Caribbean schools, so I don't know how SJSM actually stacks up against any other medical school in practice - perhaps you do. If you have attended another Caribbean medical school, you are in a great position to make comparisons and let everyone know what your thoughts are on the matter.

What changes/ improvements are you referring to? I imagine that many people would like to know what those are. You also acknowledge that there's room for change. What changes do you think need to happen?

If you're of the mindset that justifies luring students with little chance of success to a medical school, then you lack compassion. These are real people who are having their hopes shattered and their student loans drained. Not providing potential students with the odds of success is wrong. Lying is wrong. I am thankful that I survived the epic culling that is basic sciences at SJSM. People do make it through the program, and I never denied this. I don't want to stand by silently while SJSM posts lies, half-truths and sham statistics on their website, with the result of seriously damaging some of their students.

I tell people to be honest with themselves - not that they can't make it. There's a big difference between being optimistic and being delusional. Informed consent isn't just a random term you memorize for your ethics exam - It's a truly valuable concept. If you deny people information, you are denying them the ability to make an informed decision about what is best for them. I honestly can't understand why you would have a problem with this information being shared.

 

[Goro]

A current student as well. Instead of being negative and talking just bad about the school you can be thankful that SJSM gave you a chance to be a doctor that u didn’t get in the US or Canada. In any carribean school whether it is the big 5 or not, u will have to rely on urself a lot and study on ur own to reach ur goal. If you a current student as you say , you should know that the school is doing changes, and improvements whether u admit it or not. You were part of the student government and saw what changes was going on. Yes the school is not perfect. Yes people end up dropping. Yes there is a big room for change. But hey thats like any carribean school. We have students that transferred from saint george school of medicine and found that SJSM is better.
For any prospective student i will tell you one something: Dont let any person with a certain point of view to shape ur decision or ur future.

Saying that this school gives you a chance to be a doctor, is the same thing as saying playing the lotto gives you a chance to be a multi-millionaire.

 

[DocPryor]

I read the post and its laughable to say the least. I am not a St. James student, but have dealt with several over the years. I myself am an IMG graduating from Poland (US Citizen), and finishing up a residency. If I am not mistaken St. James has been around for a while. No business in the world can survive for long if they have 80% attrition . There is no way that is correct. If you have to give information, please give credible and good information. This is nothing but hearsay and misleading students.

Secondly, I know IMGs like myself who have been to Eastern Europe and Russia. I personally think the Caribbean in general seems to better prepare students that any of the European programs. Caribbean schools in general have a higher match rate and pass rate for residencies and the steps. I keep seeing all these gripes and complains about these schools, which are quite honestly baseless. Its looks like finally you millenials realized that mommy and daddy cant take care of you and you need someone to blame, so lets blame the school. Take some ownership and study yourself. If you fail you have no one to blame but yourself. I am guessing you are one of the students who probably didn't pass in the first attempt or did not do very well. If you have a score of less than 210 (step 1) I can understand why you would blame your school.

As for your nos., lets take a look a little more closely. Smaller schools in the Caribbean take around 100 to 150 students a year (I assume). By your estimate of 80%, only about 20 to 30 students make it to Clinicals each year. IMGs have a 50% match rate, which would mean about 10 to 15 students match each year? How in the world could a school survive even one year, with such numbers? I am doing my residency in a Chicago area hospital and I can tell you we have about 3 to 4 RESIDENTS come from St. James each year (if not more) to my program alone. For the most part some of the older smaller schools like Spartan and St. James seem to do pretty well since I have met several docs from both these schools. I just cant believe what was written in this post. It makes no sense.

I know ppl are going to comment saying that I work for the school etc. , but I have to say I am so tired of ppl on these forums complaining about schools because they couldn't cut it. Its not just St. James, other schools like Ross, Georges, Saba, AUA, even smaller ones like Avalon and Spartan (I have worked with residents from each of these schools) give a good enough education.

 

[deleted859689]

:troll:

 

[doctorsmom5594]

She has one interview scheduled so far.

Step 1 220 step 2 250
2 interviews so far university affiliated

 

[Bill Harvey]

Its looks like finally you millenials realized that mommy and daddy cant take care of you and you need someone to blame, so lets blame the school.

No business in the world can survive for long if they have 80% attrition . There is no way that is correct. If you have to give information, please give credible and good information. This is nothing but hearsay and misleading students.

Smaller schools in the Caribbean take around 100 to 150 students a year (I assume). By your estimate of 80%, only about 20 to 30 students make it to Clinicals each year. IMGs have a 50% match rate, which would mean about 10 to 15 students match each year? How in the world could a school survive even one year, with such numbers?

I can understand why you would think that it couldn't possibly be as bad as I'm saying in terms of the attrition rates.

SJSM publishes their match list. It can be found here: Residency List | Saint James School of Medicine

150 students per year at each campus x 2 campuses = 300 students per year total. The SJSM match list is available from 2011 to 2019:

2011: 19 matches. 19/300 = 6.3 %
2012: 17 matches. 17/300 = 5.67%
2013: 28 matches. 28/300 = 9.33%
2014: 24 matches. 24/300 = 8%
2015: 34 matches. 34/300 = 11.34%
2016: 52 matches. 52/300 = 17%
2017: 36 matches. 36/300 = 12%
2018: 51 matches. 51/300 = 17% (duplicate names found in list)
2019: 62 matches. 62/300 = 20.67% (duplicate names found in list)

Overall percentage of matches (annual) /students enrolled annually, based on 300 students per year enrolled at SJSM = 11.92%

The match rate for IMGs is ~57%

20.9% of enrolled students graduate = 79% do not make it to graduation

So you asked: "How in the world could a school survive even one year, with such numbers?"

Probably for the reasons I've discussed in detail previously, and also because some people in positions of authority, such as attending physicians, administrators and governing agencies pretend this problem doesn't exist. Some of these people even go onto student forums to gaslight the students this is happening to, and berate them for providing the scant information that is available.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

I can understand why you would think that it couldn't possibly be as bad as I'm saying in terms of the attrition rates.

SJSM publishes their match list. It can be found here: Residency List | Saint James School of Medicine

150 students per year at each campus x 2 campuses = 300 students per year total. The SJSM match list is available from 2011 to 2019:

2011: 19 matches. 19/300 = 6.3 %
2012: 17 matches. 17/300 = 5.67%
2013: 28 matches. 28/300 = 9.33%
2014: 24 matches. 24/300 = 8%
2015: 34 matches. 34/300 = 11.34%
2016: 52 matches. 52/300 = 17%
2017: 36 matches. 36/300 = 12%
2018: 51 matches. 51/300 = 17% (duplicate names found in list)
2019: 62 matches. 62/300 = 20.67% (duplicate names found in list)

Overall percentage of matches (annual) /students enrolled annually, based on 300 students per year enrolled at SJSM = 11.92%

The match rate for IMGs is ~57%

20.9% of enrolled students graduate = 79% do not make it to graduation

So you asked: "How in the world could a school survive even one year, with such numbers?"

Probably for the reasons I've discussed in detail previously, and also because some people in positions of authority, such as attending physicians, administrators and governing agencies pretend this problem doesn't exist. Some of these people even go onto student forums to gaslight the students this is happening to, and berate them for providing the scant information that is available.

Saint James doesn't start that many students per year and the average match rate for IMG's includes EVERY IMG that applies to the match from every school and abroad. Most Caribbean schools have a higher match rate than 57% with their own students. US citizen IMG's match at higher rates than non-citizen IMGs.

Also match doesn't equal all graduates, or those who get their residencies outside the match. Or students who took their personal info off the website.

You are pulling numbers out of nowhere to make, what point? You go to Saint James right?

 

[doctorsmom5594]

Saint James doesn't start that many students per year and the average match rate for IMG's includes EVERY IMG that applies to the match from every school and abroad. Most Caribbean schools have a higher match rate than 57% with their own students. US citizen IMG's match at higher rates than non-citizen IMGs.

Also match doesn't equal all graduates, or those who get their residencies outside the match. Or students who took their personal info off the website.

You are pulling numbers out of nowhere to make, what point? You go to Saint James right?

They don't have near that many on each campus. They also would loose accreditation. I think my daughter's class had 34.

 

[Bill Harvey]

They don't have near that many on each campus. They also would loose accreditation. I think my daughter's class had 34.

The smallest starting class I've seen had 23 students and the largest I've seen was over 60 students

 

[Bill Harvey]

Saint James doesn't start that many students per year and the average match rate for IMG's includes EVERY IMG that applies to the match from every school and abroad. Most Caribbean schools have a higher match rate than 57% with their own students. US citizen IMG's match at higher rates than non-citizen IMGs.

Also match doesn't equal all graduates, or those who get their residencies outside the match. Or students who took their personal info off the website.

You are pulling numbers out of nowhere to make, what point? You go to Saint James right?

I was wondering when you’d add your two cents. I’ve seen many of your posts explaining the details of SJSMs accreditation, past and present campuses, cost of rent on the island etc.

You’re first post was a reply on SDN after you joined on Aug 9, 2018, to what looks to me, to be a canned post designed to phish for “advice” on August 10, from a member who posted only once, asking:

So my friend wants to go to st. James . I think it's a bad idea, but I haven't expressed any of that to him. The only thing that would compel me to speak to him would be if st. James lost their accrediation. What do you think is going to happen and will it happen before he leaves at the end of August?

And you went on to reply:

I know a bit about Caribbean accreditation. CAAM-HP updated St. James on their accreditation last week, they are still at their initial provisional status. All the schools have been announcing their new statuses but CAAM-HP hasn't updated the website yet. There is a 7 day appeal window before publishing in case a school does not like the outcome and wants CAAM-HP to review it.

To me, it looks like you and some other SJSM employees (owners?) are setting up a fake dialogue so that you can “answer” some of those nagging questions holding potential students back for enrolling in SJSM.

May as well ask you then: How many students do enroll at SJSM annually? You know right? That’s why you’re sure my numbers are wrong. Am I even close? - I only attended the Saint Vincent campus, so a well-informed person such as yourself could close those gaps in my knowledge and make my calculations more precise. What is SJSMs match rate according to the data you have? All this spreadsheet making I’m doing is for nothing if you actually have the stats for us, so just go ahead and hand them over. Better yet – publish them on the SJSM website.

While you’re pulling those up, you may as well provide us with the official, average entrance gpa, attrition rate, gpa cut-off: whatever you’ve got. Also, how is it that some of the students take their personal info off the website? What’s the process for that, and wouldn’t that show up as “name withheld” on the match list, thus remaining a data point, but not having personal details online? Honestly, let us know. Otherwise, spend your time making SJSM a better school so that you don’t have to lurk around student forums, trying to discredit people who are putting a good faith effort into sharing the limited information that is available.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

I was wondering when you’d add your two cents. I’ve seen many of your posts explaining the details of SJSMs accreditation, past and present campuses, cost of rent on the island etc.

You’re first post was a reply on SDN after you joined on Aug 9, 2018, to what looks to me, to be a canned post designed to phish for “advice” on August 10, from a member who posted only once, asking:


And you went on to reply:



To me, it looks like you and some other SJSM employees (owners?) are setting up a fake dialogue so that you can “answer” some of those nagging questions holding potential students back for enrolling in SJSM.

May as well ask you then: How many students do enroll at SJSM annually? You know right? That’s why you’re sure my numbers are wrong. Am I even close? - I only attended the Saint Vincent campus, so a well-informed person such as yourself could close those gaps in my knowledge and make my calculations more precise. What is SJSMs match rate according to the data you have? All this spreadsheet making I’m doing is for nothing if you actually have the stats for us, so just go ahead and hand them over. Better yet – publish them on the SJSM website.

While you’re pulling those up, you may as well provide us with the official, average entrance gpa, attrition rate, gpa cut-off: whatever you’ve got. Also, how is it that some of the students take their personal info off the website? What’s the process for that, and wouldn’t that show up as “name withheld” on the match list, thus remaining a data point, but not having personal details online? Honestly, let us know. Otherwise, spend your time making SJSM a better school so that you don’t have to lurk around student forums, trying to discredit people who are putting a good faith effort into sharing the limited information that is available.

I am just a Mom, but did fly to St Vincent for her graduation from basic sciences and saw her school.She said had 40 starting out, dropped to 35 first year. There were 15 that passed NBME. I am on website because we are checking to see what interviews others are going on. Last year 2 out of class did not match but they didn't have scores for their specialty. Hope this helps.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

I was wondering when you’d add your two cents. I’ve seen many of your posts explaining the details of SJSMs accreditation, past and present campuses, cost of rent on the island etc.

You’re first post was a reply on SDN after you joined on Aug 9, 2018, to what looks to me, to be a canned post designed to phish for “advice” on August 10, from a member who posted only once, asking:


And you went on to reply:



To me, it looks like you and some other SJSM employees (owners?) are setting up a fake dialogue so that you can “answer” some of those nagging questions holding potential students back for enrolling in SJSM.

How can I engage in honest discourse with you if, when I, or anyone else on this forum, says something neutral to positive about Caribbean medical schools, you and other users on this site accuse us of being shills for the schools?

You also post here a lot. Med students don't have a lot of time, could you perhaps be a shill for another school? Maybe one of SJSM's competitors?

Trust me when I say that administrators for Caribbean schools do not have the time to pretend to be students on a forum like this that is basically a ghost town. And if they try - its really obvious. I saw a post get deleted earlier this week from a Texila shill.

I know quite a bit about Caribbean accreditation and a bit about lots of Caribbean schools. The numbers you cite cannot be true, because no accreditation agency would accredit a school with those numbers, and many of the Caribbean schools, Saint James included, are accredited. And their accreditors are reviewed, like ACCM, by WFME which accredits the accreditors, and is recognized by the US.

You can't fake that data, look at the rejected schools on ACCM or CAAM-HP's websites and you will see who tried.

I am on here because it interests me to try to share some of what I know with people on this site. I do not represent any school, and if you look at my history I've given advice about a couple of different schools. I just know more about several of them than others.

Have you tried getting any of this data you are looking for from your school? Are you calling the right department and asking politely? I think you're frustrated and asking the wrong people the wrong questions with the wrong tone. You chose your school, obviously something got you in the door. What are you doing to improve your school or improve your experience at the school. Are you talking to grads? If not, have you asked to?

 

[Bill Harvey]

How can I engage in honest discourse with you if, when I, or anyone else on this forum, says something neutral to positive about Caribbean medical schools, you and other users on this site accuse us of being shills for the schools?

You also post here a lot. Med students don't have a lot of time, could you perhaps be a shill for another school? Maybe one of SJSM's competitors?

Trust me when I say that administrators for Caribbean schools do not have the time to pretend to be students on a forum like this that is basically a ghost town. And if they try - its really obvious. I saw a post get deleted earlier this week from a Texila shill.

I know quite a bit about Caribbean accreditation and a bit about lots of Caribbean schools. The numbers you cite cannot be true, because no accreditation agency would accredit a school with those numbers, and many of the Caribbean schools, Saint James included, are accredited. And their accreditors are reviewed, like ACCM, by WFME which accredits the accreditors, and is recognized by the US.

You can't fake that data, look at the rejected schools on ACCM or CAAM-HP's websites and you will see who tried.

I am on here because it interests me to try to share some of what I know with people on this site. I do not represent any school, and if you look at my history I've given advice about a couple of different schools. I just know more about several of them than others.

Have you tried getting any of this data you are looking for from your school? Are you calling the right department and asking politely? I think you're frustrated and asking the wrong people the wrong questions with the wrong tone. You chose your school, obviously something got you in the door. What are you doing to improve your school or improve your experience at the school. Are you talking to grads? If not, have you asked to?

You say that my numbers are wrong, but have no numbers of your own. You instead offer up an unsubstantiated statement that there's no way a school could be accredited with numbers like that. What makes you think that? What document from accrediting institutions are you referencing? I've looked through the documents outlining the criteria for CAAMHP and ACCM, and I didn't see anything on what kind of pass rates are needed to obtain or maintain accreditation - If you've got them, then post them.

Coming at me and saying that I'm making numbers up when I'm using the only data available to me (the official SJSM match list) and estimating the annual student intake based on what I saw with my own eyes is rich coming from someone who offers nothing tangible. What you would have everyone believe, based on conjecture, is that it's absolutely not possible that SJSM has a pass rate as dismal as I'm suggesting (with data) because you think they would not be allowed to stay open if they did. That's a lot of cognitive leaps and false logic. Why not ask yourself: what is the pass rate, and what is the match rate? and then determine what those numbers are with the least amount of deductive reasoning as possible.

If there's no known cut-off for how bad an attrition rate or match rate has to be before a school will lose its accreditation then you can't use that as a premise to justify your argument that bad numbers = can't be accredited, therefore, bad numbers can't be true, as school is still accredited.

I think you lean pretty hard and that sort of thinking process. Med students have no time to post on SDN, therefore anyone who posts more than you deem appropriate = not a med student, not a med student = working for SJSMs competition.

As you wish. I'm here to help my classmates and future students avoid pitfalls. Why are you trying so hard to prove I'm wrong? I'll be looking into the accreditation criteria again - not because I doubt my own observations but I'd like to know what the cut-off actually is, if it exists.

You either know how many students enroll at SJSM, and don't like how those numbers pan out when plugged into equations, and are therefore not correcting what I've posted, or you don't know - and you were saying I'm wrong without knowing if that were the case or not. That's not helpful to students at all.

 

[SJSMSTUDENT]

Saying that this school gives you a chance to be a doctor, is the same thing as saying playing the lotto gives you a chance to be a multi-millionaire.

Then go ahead and try to be a millionaire if you are that desperate and cant make it through medical school

 

[Bill Harvey]

You help them by being honest and not skewed towards your failure. Two of your classmates which were a nice couple passed and started rotations as you know. So your " honest" and " truthful" review about saint james is biased because your blaming your first time NBME failure on the school. I am curious why do we always see comments on these forms coming from students who fails/failed and don't come from students who are actual doctors and worked their ass off instead of complaining. I haven't attended other carribean medical school as well but you do hear news like everyone else. As for what changes could be made or have been made since you left saint vincent, you can contact SGA and they will happily tell you. This is not the right place to suggest solutions and b**** about the school. As you know, u can email the deans or the associate dean. Or you can be part of SGA and be the campus representative in SGA for example . Anw good luck on ur step 1 Mrs.***** ( so that i dont expose ur real name)

Wow. Attempting to out your fellow classmates on an anonymous student forum, created to help students. That's mean. Blocking out the last 2 letters of a 5 letter last name doesn't do much, but that's the point I guess. I'll forward this on to her so that she can get ready for whatever is coming her way after this post.

Edited addition:
To add to my initial anger and disbelief, how do you know so much about this person and why are you posting her name? How do you "know" which of her classmates are doing their rotations, how do you "know" she failed her NBME, How do you "know that she's studying for the USMLE? That's information a administrator would have.

You wrote this. And its a good thing the moderated blacked out the students name and took down your original post because you did something that is against the rules. I see you're on probation but I hope you get banned completely

SJSMSTUDENT said:

"Two of your classmates which were a nice couple passed and started rotations as you know".
"your blaming your first time NBME failure on the school"
"Anw good luck on ur step 1 Mrs.*****" - last name blacked out by the moderator but was in the initial post.

I tried to message you to ask you why you posted the name, but it didn't work. I guess your messaging is down while you're on probation.

 

[deleted859689]

 

[Goro]

No business in the world can survive for long if they have 80% attrition . There is no way that is correct. If you have to give information, please give credible and good information. This is nothing but hearsay and misleading students.

Actually, the business model of the Carib predators is precisely based upon attrition.

The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really). So they have to cull the herd.

If this happened at a US school, they'd be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

And the point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

 

[DocPryor]

I can understand why you would think that it couldn't possibly be as bad as I'm saying in terms of the attrition rates.

SJSM publishes their match list. It can be found here: Residency List | Saint James School of Medicine

150 students per year at each campus x 2 campuses = 300 students per year total. The SJSM match list is available from 2011 to 2019:

2011: 19 matches. 19/300 = 6.3 %
2012: 17 matches. 17/300 = 5.67%
2013: 28 matches. 28/300 = 9.33%
2014: 24 matches. 24/300 = 8%
2015: 34 matches. 34/300 = 11.34%
2016: 52 matches. 52/300 = 17%
2017: 36 matches. 36/300 = 12%
2018: 51 matches. 51/300 = 17% (duplicate names found in list)
2019: 62 matches. 62/300 = 20.67% (duplicate names found in list)

Overall percentage of matches (annual) /students enrolled annually, based on 300 students per year enrolled at SJSM = 11.92%

The match rate for IMGs is ~57%

20.9% of enrolled students graduate = 79% do not make it to graduation

So you asked: "How in the world could a school survive even one year, with such numbers?"

Probably for the reasons I've discussed in detail previously, and also because some people in positions of authority, such as attending physicians, administrators and governing agencies pretend this problem doesn't exist. Some of these people even go onto student forums to gaslight the students this is happening to, and berate them for providing the scant information that is available.

So it seems like you got the nos. wrong. From the same list you had a link for, they had 83 residency matches for 2019. Not 62. So really....I am beginning to think you have some vendetta against the school. I dont have time to count every single year, but I looked at 2019 only and you are off by about 20 residents. Thats a lot! Again, please be accurate when you are talking about nos. Its annoying and misleading which is what your doing. Please be honest.

 

[DocPryor]

Actually, the business model of the Carib predators is precisely based upon attrition.

The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really). So they have to cull the herd.

If this happened at a US school, they'd be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

And the point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

If I am not mistaken, arent the caribbean accreditation boards have reciprocity with LCME. Isnt that what the whole hullabaloo about 2023 about? I have no doubt that some schools are terrible in the Caribbean and they should be shut down, but the ones I listed I believe are all LCME equivalent accredited.

 

[Goro]

If I am not mistaken, arent the caribbean accreditation boards have reciprocity with LCME. Isnt that what the whole hullabaloo about 2023 about? I have no doubt that some schools are terrible in the Caribbean and they should be shut down, but the ones I listed I believe are all LCME equivalent accredited.

Haven't a clue. @gonnif?

 

[brooks brother]

So it seems like you got the nos. wrong. From the same list you had a link for, they had 83 residency matches for 2019. Not 62. So really....I am beginning to think you have some vendetta against the school. I dont have time to count every single year, but I looked at 2019 only and you are off by about 20 residents. Thats a lot! Again, please be accurate when you are talking about nos. Its annoying and misleading which is what your doing. Please be honest.

I'm considering SJSM because I'm Canadian and I really don't have a good chance of getting into a Canadian medical school based on my gpa. I could go and get masters degree (still an option) but I lack the motivation to start studying something just as a stepping stone. I might just bite the bullet and go Caribbean.

So about this match list. I put it into a spreadsheet so that I would be eairt to work with. I want to know what the numbers are, so this is good for me too.

I was think of posting the list but that might not go over well. I know its on the website but I don't if it's okay to post it here. It is easy to find on the wesite. Its listed under student success.

I decided to change the average annual enrollment to 125 per campus because from what I've heard its the September classes that have 50+ students but that the other classes are smaller. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but I decided to go with 55 + 35 +35 = 125. Instead of the 150 used before

I took out the few duplicate names that I saw. There weren't many and likely were there becasue people match in more than one program.

125 a year for aeach of the campuses means that there are ~250 students enrolled a year. of thse students this perscentage of students matched.

2019 32%
2018 21%
2017 14%
2016 21%
2015 14%
2014 10%
2013 11%
2012 7%
2011 8%

15% of enrolled students matched between 2011 and 2019. and it looks like the trend is upward, so fingers crossed.

I think this is just how it is. I don;t think these numbers are good or anyhting, but If you know that this is what is and you think you can be one of those 15% then go for it. Someone has to be in that 15%. its better than nothing.

 

[brooks brother]

Quick question for the SJSM students. Is Anguilla worth the extra money? The tuition is significantly more expensive but I think I could make it work financially if the extra cost is worth it. Is the cost of rent much different between saint Vincent and Anguilla? is the food much different? Is the higher tuition because the instructors are better qualified, the campus is nicer? I heard that the gpa cut-off for Anguilla is higher than for saint Vincent and that could mean that your peer group is more capable and can help push you towards achieving more, potential resulting in better outcomes.

 

[Deecee2DO]

I'm considering SJSM because I'm Canadian and I really don't have a good chance of getting into a Canadian medical school based on my gpa. I could go and get masters degree (still an option) but I lack the motivation to start studying something just as a stepping stone. I might just bite the bullet and go Caribbean.

So about this match list. I put it into a spreadsheet so that I would be eairt to work with. I want to know what the numbers are, so this is good for me too.

I was think of posting the list but that might not go over well. I know its on the website but I don't if it's okay to post it here. It is easy to find on the wesite. Its listed under student success.

I decided to change the average annual enrollment to 125 per campus because from what I've heard its the September classes that have 50+ students but that the other classes are smaller. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but I decided to go with 55 + 35 +35 = 125. Instead of the 150 used before

I took out the few duplicate names that I saw. There weren't many and likely were there becasue people match in more than one program.

125 a year for aeach of the campuses means that there are ~250 students enrolled a year. of thse students this perscentage of students matched.

2019 32%
2018 21%
2017 14%
2016 21%
2015 14%
2014 10%
2013 11%
2012 7%
2011 8%

15% of enrolled students matched between 2011 and 2019. and it looks like the trend is upward, so fingers crossed.

I think this is just how it is. I don;t think these numbers are good or anyhting, but If you know that this is what is and you think you can be one of those 15% then go for it. Someone has to be in that 15%. its better than nothing.

“lack the motivation”. You cant have an ounce of a lack of motivation if you want to go carib (which I dont suggest at all). Going to the caribbean because you lack moivation sets you up for bigtime failure because again youll lack motivation in the carrib. Grab some motivation and do the masters or the chance of you being in that 15% with a lack of motivation will be slim.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

Quick question for the SJSM students. Is Anguilla worth the extra money? The tuition is significantly more expensive but I think I could make it work financially if the extra cost is worth it. Is the cost of rent much different between saint Vincent and Anguilla? is the food much different? Is the higher tuition because the instructors are better qualified, the campus is nicer? I heard that the gpa cut-off for Anguilla is higher than for saint Vincent and that could mean that your peer group is more capable and can help push you towards achieving more, potential resulting in better outcomes.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

My daughter paid 400 month for rent in st Vincent, for those who wanted to know how she is doing, she has 4 residency interviews so far internal medicine university affiliated

 

[Bill Harvey]

I'm considering SJSM because I'm Canadian and I really don't have a good chance of getting into a Canadian medical school based on my gpa. I could go and get masters degree (still an option) but I lack the motivation to start studying something just as a stepping stone. I might just bite the bullet and go Caribbean.

So about this match list. I put it into a spreadsheet so that I would be eairt to work with. I want to know what the numbers are, so this is good for me too.

I was think of posting the list but that might not go over well. I know its on the website but I don't if it's okay to post it here. It is easy to find on the wesite. Its listed under student success.

I decided to change the average annual enrollment to 125 per campus because from what I've heard its the September classes that have 50+ students but that the other classes are smaller. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but I decided to go with 55 + 35 +35 = 125. Instead of the 150 used before

I took out the few duplicate names that I saw. There weren't many and likely were there becasue people match in more than one program.

125 a year for aeach of the campuses means that there are ~250 students enrolled a year. of thse students this perscentage of students matched.

2019 32%
2018 21%
2017 14%
2016 21%
2015 14%
2014 10%
2013 11%
2012 7%
2011 8%

15% of enrolled students matched between 2011 and 2019. and it looks like the trend is upward, so fingers crossed.

I think this is just how it is. I don;t think these numbers are good or anyhting, but If you know that this is what is and you think you can be one of those 15% then go for it. Someone has to be in that 15%. its better than nothing.

This is a better job than I did. I think I made a mistake and wrote down 62 instead of 82 when I can up with my numerator for the 2019 calculation. Your enrollment estimate is lower and probably more accurate. My class was really big so that was what I thought of when it came to enrollment numbers - but yes, the other intakes aren't' as big and somewhere in the 30s seem about right for those classes. If the actual enrolment numbers could be found, these stats could be a lot more specific, potentially even perfect if the match list is correct. If you can find those that would be great.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

PS 5) St James is not recognized by the Medical Board of California and its graduates cannot be licensed in the state. Several other state's medical boards, including Indiana, Colorado North Dakota, Alabama, and Vermont, formally use California list in their licensing process, and therefore these graduates cannot be licensed in those states as well

California has changed this as of January 1st, 2020. Now any school accredited by a WFME recognized accreditor (like ACCM) will be approved by California and their grads can practice there.

Here's the text as provided by ECFMG:

New California Legislation

California governor Jerry Brown signed California SB-
798 into law on October 13 th , 2017. This legislation repeals the law mandating the
MBC&#39;s independent evaluation process for the state of California effective January 1,
2020, provided schools meet other extant accreditation and quality standards,
specifically stating the 2023 ECFMG mandate as the key qualifying criteria:
1. “The foreign medical school has been evaluated by the Educational Commission for
Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) or one of the ECFMG-authorized foreign medical
school accreditation agencies and deemed to meet the minimum requirements
substantially equivalent to the requirements of medical schools accredited by the
Liaison Committee on Medical Education, the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian
Medical Schools, or the Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation.”
2. “The foreign medical school is listed on the World Federation for Medical Education
(WFME) and the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and
Research (FAIMER) World Directory of Medical Schools joint directory or the World
Directory of Medical Schools.”

For a foreign medical school to qualify under either of the two
paragraphs above, a current listing in the W.H.O directory alone will not be valid enough
if you want to have clerkships, residency, or licensure in the United States in 2023 or in
California in 2020. The country where the medical school resides must have
accreditation standards recognized by the ECFMG (which is handled by the US
Department of Education’s NCFMEA) or the WFME as substantially equivalent to the

LCME in the United States, and the medical school must be accredited by one of the
approved accrediting bodies on the ECFMG or the WFME website.
As such, on January 1, 2020, graduates can match into California residencies as
well as apply for medical licensure in California.
SEC. 35.
Section 2084 of the Business and Professions Code is amended to read:
2084.
(a) The Division of Licensing may approve every school which substantially complies with the
requirements of this chapter for resident courses of professional instruction. Graduates of
medical schools approved under this section shall be deemed to meet the requirements of
Section 2089. Medical schools accredited by a national accrediting agency approved by the
division and recognized by the United States Department of Education shall be deemed
approved by the division under this section. Nothing in this chapter prohibits the division from
considering the quality of the resident courses of professional instruction required for
certification as a physician and surgeon.
(b) This section shall remain in effect only until January 1, 2020, and as of that date is repealed.
SEC. 36.
Section 2084 is added to the Business and Professions Code, to read:
2084.
(a) Medical schools accredited by a national accrediting agency approved by the board and
recognized by the United States Department of Education shall be deemed approved by the
board.
(b) The board shall determine a foreign medical school to be a recognized medical school if the
foreign medical school meets any of the following requirements:
(1) The foreign medical school has been evaluated by the Educational Commission for Foreign
Medical Graduates (ECFMG) or one of the ECFMG-authorized foreign medical school
accreditation agencies and deemed to meet the minimum requirements substantially equivalent
to the requirements of medical schools accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical
Education, the Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools, or the Commission on
Osteopathic College Accreditation.
(2) The foreign medical school is listed on the World Federation for Medical Education (WFME)
and the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research
(FAIMER) World Directory of Medical Schools joint directory or the World Directory of Medical
Schools.
(3) The foreign medical school had been previously approved by the board. The prior approval
shall only be valid for a maximum of seven years from the date of enactment of this section.
(c) This section shall become operative on January 1, 2020.