salarey

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jesse14

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Would anyone happen to know what the avrg salarey for a DC is?? I'm debating on whether to go to chiropractic college or podiatry school. I'm from canada, so going to pod school would be very expensive and new pods arn't even allowed back into Ontario to practice. (we have a chiropody program here). I like chiropractic and i just want to get as much info as possible!
Thank's guys!
 
jesse14 said:
Would anyone happen to know what the avrg salarey for a DC is?? I'm debating on whether to go to chiropractic college or podiatry school. I'm from canada, so going to pod school would be very expensive and new pods arn't even allowed back into Ontario to practice. (we have a chiropody program here). I like chiropractic and i just want to get as much info as possible!
Thank's guys!

I say screw Ontario and go to Pod. School. Both can make good $!
 
jesse14 said:
Would anyone happen to know what the avrg salarey for a DC is?? I'm debating on whether to go to chiropractic college or podiatry school. I'm from canada, so going to pod school would be very expensive and new pods arn't even allowed back into Ontario to practice. (we have a chiropody program here). I like chiropractic and i just want to get as much info as possible!
Thank's guys!

DPMs can make really good money...research on www.salary.com and elsewhere.
It really depends on what you put into your practice and your commitment, etc.
I wouldnt go to DC school though.

Jeff 🙂
 
dpmjeff77 said:
DPMs can make really good money...research on www.salary.com and elsewhere.
It really depends on what you put into your practice and your commitment, etc.
I wouldnt go to DC school though.

Jeff 🙂

can you expand on why I souldn't go to DC school?
 
jesse14 said:
can you expand on why I souldn't go to DC school?
I WILL PROBABLY GET CRUSHED FOR SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROFESSION, BUT IM GOING TO SAY IT ANYWAY. :meanie:
I SEE THE DC's AS GLORIFIED MASSAGE THERAPISTS/PHYSICAL THERAPISTS.
I do not think its interesting, there is no invasive part of Chiro. I like surgeries. You may not...personal preference. Yes, their reputation is on an upward trend but I still don't think it's up there. As in they are not that respected in the medical community...depends where you are of course.

go shadow a chiro., shadow a pod. Do what it takes to figure out what interests you.

i didnt mean to OFFEND ANYONE...personal opinion here :scared: .

Jeff
 
jesse14 said:
Would anyone happen to know what the avrg salarey for a DC is?? I'm debating on whether to go to chiropractic college or podiatry school. I'm from canada, so going to pod school would be very expensive and new pods arn't even allowed back into Ontario to practice. (we have a chiropody program here). I like chiropractic and i just want to get as much info as possible!
Thank's guys!

First...as always...do what you have a "true" desire to do otherwise you will probably be miserable even if you succeed. Having said that I believe you should reconsider your choices if you are concerned about money.

Being an associate D.C. is NOT LUCRATIVE I make about $46K but the average starting salary is $40-$60. Most successful D.C.'s are lucky to gross $100K or so. Most fall around $80K IF THEY CAN STAY IN PRACTICE. Yes, some do make $$$$ Hundreds of thousands but they are the rare exception, not the rule like M.D.'s, D.O.'s and Dentists.

That's not to say it isn't your bag, but if I had it to do over again I would have chosen another field. Chiropractic is a very controversial career field and with good reason. Most who don't know what in the H#$% they are talking about will always discredit your education even though they know NOTHING about it and insurance companies mostly assume you are providing unnecessary care because a pill is cheaper and gets faster relief. Most of the time you will be dealing with W/C or PI patients who are NOT the most pleasant or ethical patients and, yes, the blasted lawyers who represent them. True enough, you can have a family practice and do well with a lot of work but my advice is put that much effort while your in school and maybe you won't have to work that hard AFTER school to make some $$$.

The limited benefit chiropractic offers will leave you feeling inadequate for the amount of money, effort and time you put into your education. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have said that, now, your looking on average $100-$130K for school loans...not worth it. Again, if your really hooked on adjusting people and love talking up your skills (which you will do alot) then you can make it. I'm sure it's not as complicated a field as medicine, dentistry or podiatry so the stress level of the profession is less and possibly worth it from a lifestyle perspective. I work about 38 hours a week and my boss who makes $120K works about 30 hours after 18 years in practice.

Now Podiatry, I have no educated answer except that from my past research into Podiatry and salary it has some of the same complaints. Podiatry schools, as I understand it, are hurting and are somewhat easier to get into now because of the decline in enrollment. You will study along side medical students and do the residency afterwards (I believe). You can work in most places M.D.'s do but do you really want to stare at feet the rest of your life? Regretably, the forums I ran across also were filled with disgruntled DPM's who aren't earning the income they thought was available to them. It, like chiropractic, requires one to be in private practice to realize higher income potential but also assumes alot of risk as any business does (50% failure rate on average). For all the work Podiatry school will take...probably should just become an M.D. or D.O. and you can work on any damn thing you feel like w/o any restrictions!

But to answer your question I remember the average being about $110K private practice and $80K salary (government, etc). Probably $50-65K to start as an associate. However, it is a small field and if marketed right you could have a great number of patients...all old, diabetic and UGLY, smelly feet but still needing podiatric care.

If Medicine is too long or tough then don't rule out P.A. or N.P. as these two fields have enormous job security and are getting an expanded scope of practice (equates to more money$$$) every year that comes because it's cheaper for hospitals, insurance companies, etc. to use them. Less time and more return for $$$/Time invested. 2-3 years, no residency requirement, prescription rights, autonomy (limited but growing), salary w/o business ownership risk, $70-90K for life and growing.

For me, my skill is in my hands (dexterity) and analytical thinking. Having been around D.C.'s in the old days, small town life, they made boo koo bucks. Now as an adult, very different story. I think Dentistry would have been a far better fit for my talents.

Not to burst your bubble but there is ALWAYS alot of hype put out by the schools, organizations, etc and should not be believed. In addition, don't believe knuckle heads who begin answering your questions on chiropractic by bashing it's philosophy or efficacy ... it's a waste of time they already hate chiropractic and you won't get a "real" answer just "poo". There's wacko's in every profession, chiropractic just has more of them but not all of them.

I hope this helps. It's honest and credible information.

Chirodoc
 
I agree with much of what chirodoc said. Looking back now, I would say if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't go the chiropractic route. I consider myself a successful chiropractor but each day that goes by its harder and harder to earn a living. Insurance is absolutely terrible for MD's so take that and multiply it by one hundred and that's how bad it is for us. Benefits are getting so bad that patient co pays are more than the actual treatment and thus equals no coverage. It seems when a chiropractic claim comes through, red flags go up everywhere. You have to fight your butt off to get paid thirty cents on the dollar. The profession is pumping out new graduates at an alarming rate and the competition is getting to be horrible. Since opening my own clinic five years ago, there have been fourteen new chiropractors open up in my town. I have felt the impact. The utilization of chiropractic service is only about fifteen percent of the population. So the second largest healthcare providers are all fighting over a small amount of the population. Now we have MD's opening up pain management centers left and right, we have physical therapists wanting a bigger piece of the pie and fighting for direct access and wanting to have manipulation as part of their practice. So the competition is not only amongst ourselves but also with many other providers. We have a divided profession of science based practitioners and philosophical based practitioners with no one agreeing on anything. The philosophical practitioners (straights) like what they are doing. They like deceiving the public and scaring them into year care plans and scaring them into thinking they have to come in for life. The science based guys are trying to distance themselves from these practitioners. They want better education including residency programs and training is pharmaceutical therapy. So you can see how the group is divided. The straights want chiropractic as a wellness type of provider and the science guys want it as a neuromuscular skeletal specialty. There is no give. I'm telling you, you have to be crazy to consider entering this profession. If manipulation is your bag then please go be a DO and then do a residency in manual medicine. Personally, I'm not interested in podiatry. If I did it again, or decide to do it over again, I would go dental. These are the jack makers. Also, the population has accepted paying cash for dental services. Don't let anyone fool you here, I know of MD and DO's that can't make it in private practice. They have insurance issues as well, they usually need larger staffs to deal with it and their malpractice rates keep increasing. They really have to hustle in private practice to overcome their overhead. I talked to a MD recently, his kids wanted to follow in his footsteps and he persuaded both of them to go to dental school. It bad for everyone and worse for us.
 
BackTalk said:
Don't let anyone fool you here, I know of MD and DO's that can't make it in private practice. They have insurance issues as well, they usually need larger staffs to deal with it and their malpractice rates keep increasing. They really have to hustle in private practice to overcome their overhead. I talked to a MD recently, his kids wanted to follow in his footsteps and he persuaded both of them to go to dental school. It bad for everyone and worse for us.

As usual, the voice of reason and moderation. He is, unfortunately, right. There are MDs who can not make it. Mainly in primary care with heavy medicare / medicaid loads. I know that my uncle, an orthopedic surgeon, actively discouraged his three children from entering medicine.

That said, I love my job and couldn't imagine doing anything else!

- H
 
I have friend that had is own private Chiropractic practice, he said he was lucky to gross 50K. He closed up shop and now he drives a tow truck (not a joke). OTOH, he loves what he does now. I suppose you should do what makes you happy. You can't base everything that you do off of money, but it does play a part.
 
My current landlord is a DC. He make a great living, but I believe most of it now comes from his vast real estate holdings. He was pretty smart and invested most everything he ever made. I also know a DC who works at a FedEx wharehouse in the mornings and sees patients in the afternoon because not only does he get great benefits from FedEX, he said he also couldnt make a living on his chiropractic practice alone working full time.
 
we have 2 dc's in my er. 1 works as a cast tech, the other as an xray tech-his former job.the xray tech still sees some pts on the side. the cast tech doesn't practice at all
 
Man...I guess things can always be worse but my situation is bad enough for me to take heed and plot another career course. I just got done with some chiropractic CE seminar (more like RE...remedial education) and I felt embarrased at how "corny" it was. Not to disrespect the guy who did it but I just can't imagine how medicine could have such CE classes and expect the survival of mankind.

I think to make consistent money might be to do CE seminars since everyone needs them year after year and chiro CE seminars are kind of amateurish...this guy bucketed $10K in 16 hours (two days). Two seminars a month...for 12 months...you guessed it almost a quarter million a year for doing the same thing everytime and nobody complains because they can get the silly CE credit thing over with. I might have a new career. (Said in jest of course...I think)
 
This recent salary survey from Chiropractic Economics suggests the DCs are doing pretty well financially: http://www.chiroeco.com/article/2005/issue6/S&ESurvey05.pdf

Yeah, I know, sampling bias. But are DCs really doomed? What are the keys to survival? Is it possible to be an "NMS chiropractor" and earn a good living?
 
PublicHealth said:
Yeah, I know, sampling bias. But are DCs really doomed? What are the keys to survival? Is it possible to be an "NMS chiropractor" and earn a good living?

If the "Master's Circle" lawsuit wins, chiropractic will suffer. To quote Terry Rondberg (see: http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/tcj/2005/apr/rondberg.htm) "Keep in mind that this case isn't about improper clinical care ‑‑ after all, the patient failed to win her initial lawsuit against the DC who provided the care. This class action lawsuit isn't about the quality of care given to the plaintiff's son; it's about the concept of long‑term maintenance or wellness care. It's a battle between the quick‑fix mentality and the chiropractic lifestyle concept." If this suit is lost, I would expect many health insurers to stop covering chiropractic. Not on it's merits (or demerits) but rather as a cost cutting measure seemingly supported by the premise of the lawsuit. Insurance companies in general do not take well to the idea that any health treatment automatically takes x number of visits. When I was on an oncology rotation we had to document the continued need for chemotherapy for patients on week two of a scheduled six week course of care. I can't see insurers taking well to the idea that all healthy people require 12 visits to a chiropractor as maintainence.

For details of the case here is a "pro-chiro" account:
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/tcj/2005/apr/a.htm
and for balance, a skepitical view:
http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/02/lawsuit-targets-us-chiropractor-group.html

- H
 
In a word no. However, to be an ethical and financially successful NMS doc is ALOT harder now than before. There are so many other accepted methods of treating "bread and butter" back pain that does not cross the "marketing" abyss that today's D.C.'s fall prey to. You basically oversell what you do in order to land in the middle somewhere. In reality, in business that's not all that uncommon but the "idea" of being a "Doctor" is that what you do is needed and useful and overselling shouldn't be a prerequisite. That's my .02.

It's possible but for the amount of debt, work needed just pic another profession. I wish chiropractic was more included in standardized health care but the effort is always there to replace or squeeze us out. That gets old.

Financially, as an associate you'll always make 40-60K no matter how long you stay. As a practice owner it goes both ways but I would say again for the amount of effort I'd rather have people demanding my care rather than me demanding their patient compliance.
 
chirodoc said:
In a word no. However, to be an ethical and financially successful NMS doc is ALOT harder now than before. There are so many other accepted methods of treating "bread and butter" back pain that does not cross the "marketing" abyss that today's D.C.'s fall prey to. You basically oversell what you do in order to land in the middle somewhere. In reality, in business that's not all that uncommon but the "idea" of being a "Doctor" is that what you do is needed and useful and overselling shouldn't be a prerequisite. That's my .02.

It's possible but for the amount of debt, work needed just pic another profession. I wish chiropractic was more included in standardized health care but the effort is always there to replace or squeeze us out. That gets old.

Financially, as an associate you'll always make 40-60K no matter how long you stay. As a practice owner it goes both ways but I would say again for the amount of effort I'd rather have people demanding my care rather than me demanding their patient compliance.

Serious question for you (and Backtalk, and any other current or former practicing DCs that might be lurking here). Is the Master's Circle lawsuit a threat to the chiropractic profession or not? Not in the potiental size of award or scope, but rather from the sense of implications for insurance, med-mal insurance, and autonomy...

- H
 
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