San Mateo community program in CA-NO CALL??

[Analyzethis]

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Wow I just found out talking to a friend and then checked scutwork.com and san mateo community program in the bay area has NO call? wow that is ridiculouso-It sounds like they work 35-40 hours a week, monday through friday and have NO call ever. They do have the option of taking overnight call but are paid as if they were moonlighting so there is huge incentive to do it-which means I am sure residents will get plentyof call for teaching purposes but will actually be paid well for it-intersting, this program just got added to my list.

Does anyone know anything about this program?

 

[MissAmanda]

Wow I just found out talking to a friend and then checked scutwork.com and san mateo community program in the bay area has NO call? wow that is ridiculouso-It sounds like they work 35-40 hours a week, monday through friday and have NO call ever. They do have the option of taking overnight call but are paid as if they were moonlighting so there is huge incentive to do it-which means I am sure residents will get plentyof call for teaching purposes but will actually be paid well for it-intersting, this program just got added to my list.

Does anyone know anything about this program?

bump, I am also interested.

 

[tishage]

I'm one of the residents at the San Mateo program and I couldn't be happier here. The biggest thing that sets this program apart is the philosophy that the program director has, which in my mind is progressive, unique, and extremely refreshing in the current medical environment which we've all experienced can be very off-putting. Essentially, he stresses that in order to best learn, we need balance in both our personal lives, and also in our professional lives. No other program I visited walked the talk like our program director in terms of encouraging residents to have time to read for our professional growth, and also have time to do things outside of residency to grow personally. We, for the most part, work M-F during regular work hrs, and then starting our 2nd yr have the opportunity to moonlight in psych emergency or the inpt ward (or other hospitals if you set this up). These moonlighting shifts give us the autonomy and learning experience of being on call, only we get paid extra to do so. As far as our learning, we have connections w/ Stanford & UCSF and get many of our lecturers from those institutions for our didactics, have much more time dedicated to reading rather than spending hrs at work gaining low yield experience, and spend much more time in the outpt world than most programs for psychotherapy training (half-time starting 2nd yr until finishing). One word to describe San Mateo- balanced, and I couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Sounds like a pretty excellent place to work!

 

[beverly33]

I was there 15 years ago and it's a great program. Taught me well and prepared me for everything. Also some of the nicest people to work with, both peers and attendings.

 

[omnirom]

Does anyone know of any other residency programs anywhere in the US that are similarly as chill?

 

[TexasPhysician]

UTMB is not no-call, but it is better than most.

 

[psychphan]

LSU and USC Palmetto both have VERY easy call schedules. Check the interview review thread after match day (Im waiting til then to post reviews) for details.

 

[CanHasNaps]

Tulane as well.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Unless it's changed, OU-Tulsa has a pretty chill call schedule. Home call (and you don't go in -- you just call in orders) q3 during 6 months of inpatient psychiatry and then clinic call where you carry the clinic pager intermittently throughout second year again with never having to go anywhere. No call on CL, child or any other psychiatry months.

UC-Davis seems to have a fairly chill call policy as well. AFAIK, little to practically no weekend call 2nd year, which would be awesome.

 

[notdeadyet]

UC-Davis seems to have a fairly chill call policy as well. AFAIK, little to practically no weekend call 2nd year, which would be awesome.

Hasn't changed, or at least not much. UC Davis had far and away the lightest call schedule of any academic program in the west.

 

[digitlnoize]

Honorable Mentions:

USC-Palmetto - as discussed. VERY light call.
MUSC - no "real" call, but 2 months of night float 1st year and 2 more months 2nd year.
MCW (Wisconsin) - very light, but you have to add snow shoveling time, haha.
UK - less light, but fairly light.
WVU - fairly light, and normal days (and short call) are done EARLY (4p and 8p, respectively)

 

[classof2011]

Honorable Mentions:

USC-Palmetto - as discussed. VERY light call.
MUSC - no "real" call, but 2 months of night float 1st year and 2 more months 2nd year.
MCW (Wisconsin) - very light, but you have to add snow shoveling time, haha.
UK - less light, but fairly light.
WVU - fairly light, and normal days (and short call) are done EARLY (4p and 8p, respectively)

I think mt sinai should be noted also. Also institute of livings program i hear is pretty awesome in relation to call

Again...all of it's still psych call thank god minus the few intenser medicine months

 

[digitlnoize]

I think mt sinai should be noted also. Also institute of livings program i hear is pretty awesome in relation to call

Again...all of it's still psych call thank god minus the few intenser medicine months

Sorry, these are just places I went. I have a friend at IOL, and I think it's not all it's cracked up to be. Not bad, by any means, but there is a hint of false advertising going on there, I hear.

 

[psychphan]

MUSC has weekend rounding during PGY1 and PGY2 though. Plus they have overnight call PGY3. The call there is reasonable, but I wouldn't classify it as light.

 

[digitlnoize]

MUSC has weekend rounding during PGY1 and PGY2 though. Plus they have overnight call PGY3. The call there is reasonable, but I wouldn't classify it as light.

Yeah, but the weekend rounding is relatively rare, 1-2x/mo, and VERY short. I totally don't mind popping in and saying hey in the mornings, especially if I got off work at 5pm the day before...

And the PGY-3 call is also pretty light, (what was it, like, q10 or something?) for call.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Yeah, but the weekend rounding is relatively rare, 1-2x/mo, and VERY short. I totally don't mind popping in and saying hey in the mornings, especially if I got off work at 5pm the day before...

And the PGY-3 call is also pretty light, (what was it, like, q10 or something?) for call.

But add in night float and it has a relatively tough call schedule. I interviewed at numerous places with lighter call than MUSC.

 

[nitemagi]

I'm going to chime in with the [unpopular but necessary] opinion that call can be useful. Sure there's a plateau point where it's just cheap labor, but nothing built up my skills and confidence in handling anything as q6 call during intern year.

 

[notdeadyet]

Sure there's a plateau point where it's just cheap labor, but nothing built up my skills and confidence in handling anything as q6 call during intern year.

Is that q6 overnight call? Just curious...

 

[classof2011]

I'm going to chime in with the [unpopular but necessary] opinion that call can be useful. Sure there's a plateau point where it's just cheap labor, but nothing built up my skills and confidence in handling anything as q6 call during intern year.

I think one can argue that a good nights rest and proper nutrition could provide similar effects ....*cheesing as I say this*....

No but i hear you, there were actually times in med school I felt that call was responsible for enhancing my experience. But usually only at times that residents felt the same way which sometimes hit but often miss.

 

[notdeadyet]

I think one can argue that a good nights rest and proper nutrition could provide similar effects ....*cheesing as I say this*....

Getting good sleep and adequate nutrition on psych rotations should not be a problem even at the more "intense" psychiatric programs.

I think call tends to feel more relevant when an intern than a med student just because you have increased responsibility. I questioned the utility of a lot of call as a med student because I usually had an ancillary role. When I get paged as an intern to medicate someone or make judgment calls on who to wake when someone is declining, I think the experience becomes more valuable.

There's definitely a limit at which it just becomes exploitive, as nitemagi says, but I think that few programs probably hit that limit. I'm at one of the more hour-intense programs and I see the value in the call I do. I don't always like it and would almost always rather be doing something else, but I do see the value.

 

[splik]

i second mt sinai and will add cambridge health alliance - no call intern year (except 2 weeks NF for medicine) and q14 call PGY-2 and 3, lots of moonlighting, plus payment for back up call, payment to cover call for sick residents, and get paid extra if you have to work on public holidays!

 

[splik]

In defence of call I will say that being on call for medicine is where I learnt how to be a doctor. There is something to be said for looking after 270 patients almost singlehandedly that makes you come away feeling you can deal with anything! I don't think anywhere in the US would make an intern do that though... which is probably good for patients...was insane when you had one patient in the rehab unit with ischemic bowel, one in another building with crashing pulmonary edema, one with severe sepsis, one with Afib with fast ventricular rate, aggrieved relatives baying for your blood AND were expected to check up on all the sick patients, review the labs, draw blood yourself, do serial ABGs on all the BiPAP patients, rewrite all the drug charts (not computerized), replace all the IVs yourself etc!

I suppose it depends what you do when on call that makes it valuable. If you are admitting patients from the Psych ED that's one thing. if you are babysitting patients with nothing wrong with them who have already been worked up (e.g. Duke) that's another...

 

[classof2011]

In defence of call I will say that being on call for medicine is where I learnt how to be a doctor. There is something to be said for looking after 270 patients almost singlehandedly that makes you come away feeling you can deal with anything! I don't think anywhere in the US would make an intern do that though... which is probably good for patients...was insane when you had one patient in the rehab unit with ischemic bowel, one in another building with crashing pulmonary edema, one with severe sepsis, one with Afib with fast ventricular rate, aggrieved relatives baying for your blood AND were expected to check up on all the sick patients, review the labs, draw blood yourself, do serial ABGs on all the BiPAP patients, rewrite all the drug charts (not computerized), replace all the IVs yourself etc!

No Splik....this was not "call"....this was some unknown administration allowing their interns to kill patients...an attending would have a hard time thinking clearly and effectively caring for that many (SICK!) patients....that was unregulated murder.

 

[splik]

That was not a typical experience, normally I would have half that many patients but my last weekend we were 2 down so I was carrying 3 pagers. You are right though, I believe the hospital in question is closing down now and I was going to (and may still someday) write a memoir of my experiences called Hospital of Death.

 

[psychphan]

Yeah, but the weekend rounding is relatively rare, 1-2x/mo, and VERY short. I totally don't mind popping in and saying hey in the mornings, especially if I got off work at 5pm the day before...

And the PGY-3 call is also pretty light, (what was it, like, q10 or something?) for call.

Q12. Buts it's PGY 3 when a fair number of programs have no call. Again, I think their call is very reasonable, but not light.

I'm going to chime in with the [unpopular but necessary] opinion that call can be useful. Sure there's a plateau point where it's just cheap labor, but nothing built up my skills and confidence in handling anything as q6 call during intern year.

I generally agree with this. I definitely think call is a useful learning experience, and would be suspicious of a program that requires no call. I genuinely value a life work balance, and always have, however, the two programs with the lightest work schedules ended up 8 and 10 on my RoL. I think you have to put in the hours if you want to become the best physician possible.

 

[nitemagi]

Is that q6 overnight call? Just curious...

Yep. I recognize again that there is a point where it no longer is a learning experience. But there's also a point to learning to juggle and balance resources under stress. Which lectures may help with, but being put into a stressful situation helps with much more, with the proper support.

Mentorship AND independence, resources AND challenge.

 

[classof2011]

Yep. I recognize again that there is a point where it no longer is a learning experience. But there's also a point to learning to juggle and balance resources under stress. Which lectures may help with, but being put into a stressful situation helps with much more, with the proper support.

Mentorship AND independence, resources AND challenge.

Well said, add a life filled with appropriate coping mechanisms and several ways to destress and you have a winner (situation).

 

[Daftrage]

MUSC third year call is actually normally a little more than q12 because we Neuro-psych and med-psych people fall into our call pool that year. It is more often q13 and sometimes even q14, depending on the class.

 

[notdeadyet]

Mentorship AND independence, resources AND challenge.

Agree with this. This is why it's important to choose a program that has good teaching and some mentoring for tertiary care cases but also a lot of autonomy in tough conditions. Community hospitals are great for this and hard to replicate with a private payer hospital alone.

 

[digitlnoize]

MUSC third year call is actually normally a little more than q12 because we Neuro-psych and med-psych people fall into our call pool that year. It is more often q13 and sometimes even q14, depending on the class.

I know a lot of places are q0 call 3rd year, but that's still so light as to not bother me...especially considering the lack of call years 1 & 2.

 

[coilette]

Yep. I recognize again that there is a point where it no longer is a learning experience. But there's also a point to learning to juggle and balance resources under stress. Which lectures may help with, but being put into a stressful situation helps with much more, with the proper support.

Mentorship AND independence, resources AND challenge.

I second this opinion as an intern who has had a month of night float, q4 medicine call and now q6 (variable overnight/short within duty hours) call. To some end, learning ends and it becomes work but I'm definitely not there yet. I continue to learn, question myself and past decisions with each patient I see.

I definitely don't want to be the random attending in the community calling our psych consult pager at night for advice on a difficult patient/medication change when I'm done with my training. (it happened last night).