saw sicko yesterday

[gaspasser2004]

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So my wife and I went to see "Sicko" yesterday. We were both appalled by how bad the US healthcare system seemed in comparison to the Canadian and Europeon systems.

By all accounts in the press, the facts Moore uses are correct, but the context seems a bit off. The only cases Moore presents from the US are people who have been royally screwed by the system. The only cases Moore presents from Europe and Canada are people who are absolutely happy with their healthcare. I know many people in the US are very happy with their healthcare (private insurance, of course) and I'm sure there are many horror stories from Europe and Canada about people who have died waiting for operations. Moore selectively presents stories to get his viewpoint across.

I don't know what to make of what really happened when Moore went to Cuba. It seemed like a huge piece of propaganda that American citizens could just go over to Cuba, get seen right away and have extensive medical work ups and treatments. Very, very fishy.

I don't necessarily disagree with Moore about universal coverage. I think its terrible that people have to worry about whether or not they will go bankrupt over having a CABG. I also think its terrible that CEO's of HMO's can profit so greatly off the backs of us and our patients. Don't get me wrong, I think doctors should get paid and I expect to be paid well too. There has to be a better system that allows people to be insured, us to get paid and the middle man to be cut out. There is no need to fear universal healthcare if it is done right (a tall order, I know). However, we live in a democracy and it is the will of the people to decide whether or not they want a change.

 

[jwk]

So my wife and I went to see "Sicko" yesterday. We were both appalled by how bad the US healthcare system seemed in comparison to the Canadian and Europeon systems.

By all accounts in the press, the facts Moore uses are correct, but the context seems a bit off. The only cases Moore presents from the US are people who have been royally screwed by the system. The only cases Moore presents from Europe and Canada are people who are absolutely happy with their healthcare. I know many people in the US are very happy with their healthcare (private insurance, of course) and I'm sure there are many horror stories from Europe and Canada about people who have died waiting for operations. Moore selectively presents stories to get his viewpoint across.

I don't know what to make of what really happened when Moore went to Cuba. It seemed like a huge piece of propaganda that American citizens could just go over to Cuba, get seen right away and have extensive medical work ups and treatments. Very, very fishy.

I don't necessarily disagree with Moore about universal coverage. I think its terrible that people have to worry about whether or not they will go bankrupt over having a CABG. I also think its terrible that CEO's of HMO's can profit so greatly off the backs of us and our patients. Don't get me wrong, I think doctors should get paid and I expect to be paid well too. There has to be a better system that allows people to be insured, us to get paid and the middle man to be cut out. There is no need to fear universal healthcare if it is done right (a tall order, I know). However, we live in a democracy and it is the will of the people to decide whether or not they want a change.

Both the Canadian and European health systems include luxuries like 6-12 month waits for elective surgery. They also don't have the overly litigious society that we have here. Those same people that want a free ride on the governement are often the same ones that are first to sue.

Everyone has complaints about the current system, but to date, no one has come up with proposals that address all the issues. Tort reform at all levels (both professional as well as product liability), costs of the educational process for physicians as well as physician extenders, nurses, and other allied health personnel, etc. Health care costs are not just physician salaries or drug costs.

 

[CremeSickle]

Ask any Canadian MD/RN who is in the US why it is they came here. They will let loose a rant about through the roof taxes, dangerous wait times and limited resources.

If ever there was a conspiracy to have mid levels take over medicine, universal healthcare is it.

 

[Planktonmd]

Ask any Canadian MD/RN who is in the US why it is they came here. They will let loose a rant about through the roof taxes, dangerous wait times and limited resources.

If ever there was a conspiracy to have mid levels take over medicine, universal healthcare is it.

No, they come because they make more money in the U.S. and who ever tells you anything else is lying to you!
The fact that they make more money here does not mean we have a better health care system though.

 

[CremeSickle]

They tell me that the reason they make more money in the US has everything to do with the tax rates in Canada (fed/state(prov?)) which pay for universal healthcare.

So you pay through the nose for a healthcare system with less access, fewer resources and long waits. On top of that you take home alot less $$ because of the high taxes to pay for the crappy system... dosent seem like a better system them ours to me.

 

[dhb]

I don't know what to make of what really happened when Moore went to Cuba. It seemed like a huge piece of propaganda that American citizens could just go over to Cuba, get seen right away and have extensive medical work ups and treatments. Very, very fishy.

Cuba is recognized throughout Latin America for having one of the best medical education system. I'm sure if you show up with some $ you can get very good medical treatment for a big discount.

 

[Coastie]

In addition to the crappy healthcare provided by socialism, we should ask ourselves this..

WHY WOULD ANYONE SUPPORT SOCIALISM IN ANY SETTING WHATSOEVER?

Have they stopped teaching history in schools? Yeah, the government doing something with lower overhead and more efficiency than the private sector...Moore says that. Liar.

Government doing something more "equitable" than the free markets. Liar.

Not every "fact" he has is true, but the facts Moore does have, he twists like crazy. It's kinda like the guy who falls to sleep in the first class cabin red-eye from san fran to london next to kate moss, and then tells all of his buddies he has "slept with kate moss". Factually true, but way way way out of context.

 

[Mman]

There are definitely major problems with US healthcare, however I believe US citizens still have the highest satisfaction with their level of care in the world (at least those that can get it).

 

[cfdavid]

In addition to the crappy healthcare provided by socialism, we should ask ourselves this..

WHY WOULD ANYONE SUPPORT SOCIALISM IN ANY SETTING WHATSOEVER?

Have they stopped teaching history in schools? Yeah, the government doing something with lower overhead and more efficiency than the private sector...Moore says that. Liar.

Government doing something more "equitable" than the free markets. Liar.

Not every "fact" he has is true, but the facts Moore does have, he twists like crazy. It's kinda like the guy who falls to sleep in the first class cabin red-eye from san fran to london next to kate moss, and then tells all of his buddies he has "slept with kate moss". Factually true, but way way way out of context.

No kidding. How easily we forget. Talk to anyone from the Eastern Bloc or even Russia and they'll tell you how "wonderful" socialism REALLY is/was.

Granted, socializing healthcare isn't necessarily promoting communism....lol

 

[Planktonmd]

If you live in a country like the U.S. you should have access to basic health care regardless of your social or financial status.
This is not a sign of socialism this is a sign of civilization.
The job of the government is to make that health care available to everyone and anything less than that should not be acceptable.
You should compare depriving people of health care to depriving people of food, would you accept it if people were dying of starvation in this country?

 

[CremeSickle]

There is nowhere in the constitution which states that healthcare is a right.

It is a privilege.

Food is NOT like healthcare. Without food, one would die, that is not true of healthcare. I have no interest in becoming an economically challenged country which over taxes its citizens to pay for universal healthcare,

If you live in a country like the U.S. you should have access to basic health care regardless of your social or financial status.
This is not a sign of socialism this is a sign of civilization.
The job of the government is to make that health care available to everyone and anything less than that should not be acceptable.
You should compare depriving people of health care to depriving people of food, would you accept it if people were dying of starvation in this country?

 

[johankriek]

Ask any Canadian MD/RN who is in the US why it is they came here. They will let loose a rant about through the roof taxes, dangerous wait times and limited resources.

If ever there was a conspiracy to have mid levels take over medicine, universal healthcare is it.

huh

canada and france and great britain all have universal health care or close to it and there are no midlevels in anesthesia...

 

[Planktonmd]

There is nowhere in the constitution which states that healthcare is a right.

It is a privilege.

Food is NOT like healthcare. Without food, one would die, that is not true of healthcare. I have no interest in becoming an economically challenged country which over taxes its citizens to pay for universal healthcare,

The Constitution was written at a time when people actually died of illness because this is what illness did at that time, it killed people.
In the 21st century we can treat illnesses to prevent people from dying as we can feed them to prevent them from dying as well!

 

[TIVA]

There is nowhere in the constitution which states that healthcare is a right.

It is a privilege.

Food is NOT like healthcare. Without food, one would die, that is not true of healthcare. I have no interest in becoming an economically challenged country which over taxes its citizens to pay for universal healthcare,

I'm no professor of constitutional law, but I'm pretty sure food isn't a right, it's a privilege ... as far as the constitution is concerned. And I'm sure people do die due to lack of healthcare, or access to healthcare, or ability to pay for healthcare. The issue in America isn't so much as lack of healthcare or access to it, it's the ability to pay for it. And somehow we still like to rant and rave about how we have the best healthcare in the world. If that's true, then why does Ireland have the lowest infant mortality rate in the world, or Cuba have a 100% vaccination rate for it's children.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but the current system is crap and we can't afford to be so arrogant as to refuse to look at how other countries are succeeding in this area better than we are.

 

[rmh149]

huh

canada and france and great britain all have universal health care or close to it and there are no midlevels in anesthesia...

Which may be one reason why their access to healthcare is not as good as the US of A.

 

[Coastie]

In the U.S., everyone does have access to basic health care, regardless of financial (lets drop the social status..this ain't the 1860's) status.

When the government takes money from people and gives it entirely for "free" to another set of people, it's called socialism. This is wrong.

Unfortunately, the way the system has been built up and up and up, it will take alot of painful tearing down in order to get it right again.

This won't be an easy fix, so anyone who thinks a Republican is a magic bullet is living a fairy tale. However, obama, hillary, and the rest of the dems could definitely be the smoking gun that destroys us for a very, very, long time, maybe even for good.

If you live in a country like the U.S. you should have access to basic health care regardless of your social or financial status.
This is not a sign of socialism this is a sign of civilization.
The job of the government is to make that health care available to everyone and anything less than that should not be acceptable.
You should compare depriving people of health care to depriving people of food, would you accept it if people were dying of starvation in this country?

 

[Coastie]

I agree..Mid-levels would love a socialized medicine model.

Just ask most of the family practice ARNP's at my alma mater.

huh

canada and france and great britain all have universal health care or close to it and there are no midlevels in anesthesia...

 

[Coastie]

Let the market forces and private charities take care of the needy. They will do so FAR better than the government. America is the most generous nation on earth, by leaps and bounds, and it has nothing to do with the size of our government.

It's funny how socialist countries and purveyors of universal healthcare forget how every other nation in the world pales in comparison to the wealth, generosity, and high quality of life Americans enjoy. You think increasing the government bureaucracy, especially in HEALTHCARE, will help our patients? You call that generosity?

The Constitution was written at a time when people actually died of illness because this is what illness did at that time, it killed people.
In the 21st century we can treat illnesses to prevent people from dying as we can feed them to prevent them from dying as well!

 

[Coastie]

Current system is crap, but socialism of ireland nor communism of cuba are the answer.

Cuba may claim to have 100% vaccination of children, but do those children enjoy the freedom to come and go as they please? Do they have the freedom of religion, of politics, of the press? Be wary of any "glory statistics" or stories you hear out of Cuba. Many a refugee doctor from the Island of God will tell you otherwise.

I'm no professor of constitutional law, but I'm pretty sure food isn't a right, it's a privilege ... as far as the constitution is concerned. And I'm sure people do die due to lack of healthcare, or access to healthcare, or ability to pay for healthcare. The issue in America isn't so much as lack of healthcare or access to it, it's the ability to pay for it. And somehow we still like to rant and rave about how we have the best healthcare in the world. If that's true, then why does Ireland have the lowest infant mortality rate in the world, or Cuba have a 100% vaccination rate for it's children.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but the current system is crap and we can't afford to be so arrogant as to refuse to look at how other countries are succeeding in this area better than we are.

 

[Planktonmd]

In the U.S., everyone does have access to basic health care, regardless of financial (lets drop the social status..this ain't the 1860's) status.

When the government takes money from people and gives it entirely for "free" to another set of people, it's called socialism. This is wrong.

Unfortunately, the way the system has been built up and up and up, it will take alot of painful tearing down in order to get it right again.

This won't be an easy fix, so anyone who thinks a Republican is a magic bullet is living a fairy tale. However, obama, hillary, and the rest of the dems could definitely be the smoking gun that destroys us for a very, very, long time, maybe even for good.

If everyone has access to basic health care as you claim why is the ER the only place for many people in this country to see a doctor? or maybe that is your definition of basic health care?
and if you are poor but don't qualify for Medicaid who pays your health care bills and the outrageous prices the pharmaceutical companies will charge you if, god forbid, you needed medicine?

 

[Planktonmd]

I agree..Mid-levels would love a socialized medicine model.

Just ask most of the family practice ARNP's at my alma mater.

What are you talking about?
There is no mid-level problem in any of the countries he mentioned!
Only here, because greed made physicians train them to do the job so the old farts could make more money, and they did!

 

[Planktonmd]

Let the market forces and private charities take care of the needy. They will do so FAR better than the government. America is the most generous nation on earth, by leaps and bounds, and it has nothing to do with the size of our government.

It's funny how socialist countries and purveyors of universal healthcare forget how every other nation in the world pales in comparison to the wealth, generosity, and high quality of life Americans enjoy. You think increasing the government bureaucracy, especially in HEALTHCARE, will help our patients? You call that generosity?

I admire your patriotism, but why do we have a health care access problem if everything is so great???

 

[jwk]

If you live in a country like the U.S. you should have access to basic health care regardless of your social or financial status.
This is not a sign of socialism this is a sign of civilization.

Many people do and just won't take advantage of it. Some don't want to wait, some are afraid of the system, whatever. It may not be pretty, it may not be fast, but basic health care is available to everyone in most cities of any significant size.

You'll never be able to provide basic health care in some areas - too remote, too few people, etc. Those are choices made by those living in those areas. Just like you can't have open heart surgery in every tiny community hospital, some areas simply aren't going to be served well.

 

[Noyac]

Which may be one reason why their access to healthcare is not as good as the US of A.

So remind me please, Why are you here?😴

 

[The_Sensei]

So remind me please, Why are you here?😴

As a constant annoyance to every practicing physician on this forum.👎

 

[FlacoFlo]

I agree that healthcare in the US as it exists currently cannot continue much longer due to the economic drain on our society. I also agree that while our system in the US is far from perfect, it is undoubtedly better from a patient standpoint than a UNIVERSAL system! And while I think Michael Moore can certainly take on some interesting vantage points, there are two sides to every story. Take a look at something that has recently been noticed....

He makes a big deal out of some US citizens that are able to go to Cuba to immediately receive top-notch medical care. However, when the screen scrolls down the list of WHO rankings it quickly points out the US spot at 37th! But if you look closer you'll notice that CUBA is 39th!!! This is very interesting and begs the question how much of this movie is believeable and how much has been embellished!!! Check out the link below....

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


Just food for thought!!! 🙂

 

[rmh149]

As a constant annoyance to every practicing physician on this forum.👎

No, just to a select few. 🙂

 

[supercut]

If you live in a country like the U.S. you should have access to basic health care regardless of your social or financial status.

People in the US do have "access" Go to any ED....people are required to receive treatment by law, and they do. They will get a bill later, but they do get care. No it's not perfect, and it doesn't include everything, but it is care

This is not a sign of socialism this is a sign of civilization.

Socialism, by definition, is taking money away from those who produce and giving it to those who don't.

The job of the government is to make that health care available to everyone and anything less than that should not be acceptable.

Can't speak to any European system, but since I live close to the Canadian border, I can speak a little bit to the Canadian system. The get care that is "appropriate" There are plenty of instances where people are denied care, usually in the setting of being denied treatment for a specific condidtion becuase providing that care is deemed "inappropriate". Example: 82 year old who needs CABG but is otherwise healty. He was denied his CABG simply because of his age. In this setting, the wealthy come to the US and pay cash. As the above gentleman did, and subsequently lived to age 92.

So you see, there is still a disparity in the Canadian system. Those who are denied care and are wealthy come here. Those who are denied care and are not wealthy don't get the care.

There is no Etopian system in which everybody will get all the care they need.


Micheal moore produces propaganda, not factual documentaries. You must recongize the purpose of his movies is to promote his propaganda, not provide balanced facts.

 

[dhb]

huh

canada and france and great britain all have universal health care or close to it and there are no midlevels in anesthesia...

France has CRNA's, a union representing 10% of them advocates for independance...

 

[Planktonmd]

France has CRNA's, a union representing 10% of them advocates for independance...

There is some equivalent to CRNA's almost everywhere in the world, none of them tries to practice medicine without medical education because the laws prohibit it, and surgeons want physicians managing their patients.
I practiced in France and I can tell you that the specialty of Anesthesiology is well respected there, and it will be inconceivable that nurses will ever be allowed to practice independently.

 

[The_Sensei]

No, just to a select few. 🙂

Go away, murse.......

 

[rmh149]

Go away, murse.......

No...nice try at an insult though. Sorry it didnt work.

"SDN is designed for all members of the pre-med, pre-allied health, medical and allied health communities. This forum is not closed to any members".

A quote by a senior SDN administrator, Kimberli Cox

 

[hoyden]

11

 

[The_Sensei]

No...nice try at an insult though. Sorry it didnt work.

"SDN is designed for all members of the pre-med, pre-allied health, medical and allied health communities. This forum is not closed to any members".

A quote by a senior SDN administrator, Kimberli Cox

I don't care how many people you quote, dude. You are wearing out your welcome here. I'm sure many will agree.

 

[Coastie]

Yes, and the nursing forum is in another place.

No...nice try at an insult though. Sorry it didnt work.

"SDN is designed for all members of the pre-med, pre-allied health, medical and allied health communities. This forum is not closed to any members".

A quote by a senior SDN administrator, Kimberli Cox

 

[Coastie]

Because people make choices to go to the ER. Not everyone who is poor makes the idiotic decision to have a cell phone or nfl tickets instead of insurance or primary care.

Listen, healthcare isn't a right..it's a privilege. If people want to make bad decisions and screw up their lives, who are we to pay for the mess?

Let private charities and the free market help the needy. It's not the government's job to a) grow larger or b) play robin hood, stealing from those who have to give to those who refuse to make the decision to have.

It will take a long long time to wean our society off the nanny governments t!t , but let's start that process NOW, instead of making it drastically, or even irreversibly, worse.

If everyone has access to basic health care as you claim why is the ER the only place for many people in this country to see a doctor? or maybe that is your definition of basic health care?
and if you are poor but don't qualify for Medicaid who pays your health care bills and the outrageous prices the pharmaceutical companies will charge you if, god forbid, you needed medicine?

 

[Trisomy13]

No, just to a select few. 🙂

more than you choose to believe, trust me.

 

[Coastie]

Um, the point was that many mid-levels would welcome a socialized state, which would allow them to gain an even bigger piece of the pie.

Like I said, ever talk to them about it? The majority I've spoken to (n=100ish, mind you), are gung ho.

Mid-level and Physician equivalence? Heck yeah, when you're working in the United States of Socialized Medicine.

What are you talking about?
There is no mid-level problem in any of the countries he mentioned!
Only here, because greed made physicians train them to do the job so the old farts could make more money, and they did!

 

[Coastie]

Um, the problem is the government invasion of a private sector which leads to increased bureaucracy, price-setting, and a whole host of terrible issues which come between the patient-physician relationship.

When you keep the patient-doctor relationship center, and with as few interruptions/middle-men as possible, you get the best results.

Socialized medicine does NOT keep the patient-doctor relationship at the center of things. Neither does the current system.

We need a better system, and obama/hillary care is not the answer.

I admire your patriotism, but why do we have a health care access problem if everything is so great???

 

[Coastie]

BTW, what is this access problem I hear about so much?

I've never been to an ER that turns away a patient with an issue.

Bad medicine, bad system of care, and stupid decisions on the part of many patients? Yes.

Problem with access? No.

If you want to see access problems, go to Canaduh or England.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/op...jun29,0,4306078.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines

That is a "reply to Michael Moore". Good read.

 

[cubs3canes]

Why should you ever be denied a procedure based on your age?

If the 82 guy was 55 smoked his whole life, ate sugar for every meal, and slept with ******, he would get a CABG x 4. However, if his twin brother lived to 82, still worked, never smoked, worked out daily, and lived a healthy life, he would get denied. Insurance or not, this is bad medicine.

I work in a private institution in a poor town (New Orleans). We see un-insured patients and perform cardiac caths, emergency surgeries and whatever to do what is right for the patient. If they need an outpatient procedure, we have a mechanism to refer them to LSU or Tulane (easier pre-Katrina).

Every state provides clinics in their state for their indigent population. They may not be convienent, but they are there. If you live in rural Kansas and have no insurance and need to see a doctor, you will go to the ER, they will refer you to Kansas City, Wichita, Topeka, or Denver maybe. Then you have to go their to get your FREE Care. Is this my fault, no!!!

The Free market is the best Market. Hospitals have to compete for patients. Therefore, they have to provide better care. Profits allow drug companies to develop more drugs. Competition tells them they have to make the best drugs.

The USA has the best healthcare system in the world. If you have insurance, your care will be awesome. If you, do not have insurance, you will still get good care but may need to travel for it. Also, once you turn 65, everyone gets insurance.

Also, how many patients without insurance do you see that have medical problems that are their fault. 400 lb. people have problems with arthritis. You may not like it when I tell you to lose weight, but you need to lose weight. Smoking is bad....duh!!! I feel sorry for Canadiens that have to pay for an alcoholic's liver transplant. ( I am not saying all alcoholics are bad or not deserving of a liver, but you get my point).

Cubs

 

[Coastie]

Great post. 👍

Why should you ever be denied a procedure based on your age?

If the 82 guy was 55 smoked his whole life, ate sugar for every meal, and slept with ******, he would get a CABG x 4. However, if his twin brother lived to 82, still worked, never smoked, worked out daily, and lived a healthy life, he would get denied. Insurance or not, this is bad medicine.

I work in a private institution in a poor town (New Orleans). We see un-insured patients and perform cardiac caths, emergency surgeries and whatever to do what is right for the patient. If they need an outpatient procedure, we have a mechanism to refer them to LSU or Tulane (easier pre-Katrina).

Every state provides clinics in their state for their indigent population. They may not be convienent, but they are there. If you live in rural Kansas and have no insurance and need to see a doctor, you will go to the ER, they will refer you to Kansas City, Wichita, Topeka, or Denver maybe. Then you have to go their to get your FREE Care. Is this my fault, no!!!

The Free market is the best Market. Hospitals have to compete for patients. Therefore, they have to provide better care. Profits allow drug companies to develop more drugs. Competition tells them they have to make the best drugs.

The USA has the best healthcare system in the world. If you have insurance, your care will be awesome. If you, do not have insurance, you will still get good care but may need to travel for it. Also, once you turn 65, everyone gets insurance.

Also, how many patients without insurance do you see that have medical problems that are their fault. 400 lb. people have problems with arthritis. You may not like it when I tell you to lose weight, but you need to lose weight. Smoking is bad....duh!!! I feel sorry for Canadiens that have to pay for an alcoholic's liver transplant. ( I am not saying all alcoholics are bad or not deserving of a liver, but you get my point).

Cubs

 

[GassiusClay]

I second Coastie's post.

Michael Moore pulled a sort of dirty stunt by excluding the money Americans would have to give up. Taxes would be high as f##k for everybody, which is the case in socialized countries. How many Americans are willing to pay 40-50% per year when the avg in the US is 20%? None especially ones with insurance plans. Why doesn't Moore express the distaste the Dutch have with "irresponsible" immigrants (not all) taking advantage of their welfare system? Why is a significant portion of France wanting to keep immigrants out because they don't want an economy flux with once again poorer individuals who haven't contributed anything to the system using national services? Same issue would surface here with a universal system. Americans are so much about entitlement withOUT responsibility = havoc, havoc, and more havoc.

Also, Moore shows off doctors living in 1mil homes with Audis as if that is common. Many doctors don't even have that here cuz their paying off 200K debts plus raising kids, but he adds to the common misconception that every doc in this country is "balling out of control." Not everybody is running a big business, and our generation is not the ones who scammed the system to get bigger returns for services. Actually, it would be better put that politicians and their managed care buddies wanted to keep increasing profits to screw us over, and in response, the "scamming" started. And let me add that personal drive for success leads to rewards is an American philosophy. So why criticize docs for making money?

Everyone would love health care to be a right, but in practicality, it is truly a privilege based on limited resources in the sense that every individual in the world cannot be saved from an ailment. Add in the high regard for a corporate environment in the US, and we create a even greater divide.

 

[Robert Loblaw]

Does it not infuriate anyone else that Barack Obama is a smoker? 'Eff ya, Barack! Pay for your own wedge resection--don't ask me to do it...

 

[Coastie]

Don't worry..You won't be paying for it.

He, like the rest of the socialist elite, don't play by the rules they make for the "lesser folk". While they are in line dying for care, he will be getting the chair of the mayo clinic to perform his surgery.

Oh, and you think he'll want a CRNA?



He'll want only "the best", because, after all, isn't that what every socialist elite club member deserves?

Does it not infuriate anyone else that Barack Obama is a smoker? 'Eff ya, Barack! Pay for your own wedge resection--don't ask me to do it...

 

[hoyden]

Don't worry..You won't be paying for it.

He, like the rest of the socialist elite, don't play by the rules they make for the "lesser folk". While they are in line dying for care, he will be getting the chair of the mayo clinic to perform his surgery.

Oh, and you think he'll want a CRNA?



He'll want only "the best", because, after all, isn't that what every socialist elite club member deserves?

That's EXACTLY the way it works. All liberal/socialist blah-blah is exclusively about creating the elite club of "leaders" and "all others" to pay for the privileges of the "elite".

 

[Planktonmd]

That's EXACTLY the way it works. All liberal/socialist blah-blah is exclusively about creating the elite club of "leaders" and "all others" to pay for the privileges of the "elite".

No, this is not what the liberals are about this is what human nature is about. It happens every where and all the time!
The elite group of leaders exists in every situation and regardless of the ideology.

 

[Coastie]

There is nothing wrong with different classes: poor, middle, and upper.

There will always be societal differences. Capitalism, and conservatives, want not only for all three of the classes to enjoy higher standards of living with each sucessive generation, but also to have the opportunities to freely move between each class based on one's own merits.

Socialists claim "equality for all", with no classes having the upper hand.

Except, oh yeah, Michael Moore and buddies being the elite on top, while the rest of society remains "equal" and at the lowest common denominator.

No, this is not what the liberals are about this is what human nature is about. It happens every where and all the time!
The elite group of leaders exists in every situation and regardless of the ideology.

 

[deleted59964]

Ask any Canadian MD/RN who is in the US why it is they came here. They will let loose a rant about through the roof taxes, dangerous wait times and limited resources.

If ever there was a conspiracy to have mid levels take over medicine, universal healthcare is it.

We (Australia) have universal healthcare and we have no midlevels.

 

[starsop93]

The USA has the best healthcare system in the world. If you have insurance, your care will be awesome. If you, do not have insurance, you will still get good care but may need to travel for it.

This is NOT true, and nearly every study proves it. We have a very mediocre health system. If you have insurance you MAY get "awesome" care, or you may be denied care for a myriad of reasons. If you do not have insurance you will probably get substandard care or maybe no care at all. This is what the data shows.