Saying "your program is my top choice" at every residency interview.

[GonefromTX]

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When I eventually go on residency interviews, would it be bad if I tell every interviewer that this is my favorite program so they rank me higher in the match? Just so it would increase my chances in getting matched.

Aside from the ethical issue of stretching the truth, could this go badly? I mean do programs communicate with each other about applicants and blacklist people?

 

[gyngyn]

Your school or home program may well hear about it. They may not hear before the Match, though.
This happened to us. It was one of our students. The PD's at the lied-to programs called the LoE writers from our program to let them know that the person they had recommended was a liar.

 

[tux4]

Telling a program this is not worth it. Instead, convince them that you know a lot about the program and have done your research. Usually if someone shows a lot of interest, has thoughtful questions, etc., it shows programs you are probably really considering to rank their program high. They get a bunch of people that say this cliché phrase and most likely won't affect your place on their list.


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[mvenus929]

Keep in mind that the more specialized your training, the smaller your colleague community will be. And making comments like that may not hurt you for residency applications, if word gets around, it could hurt you for jobs or fellowships.

 

[GonefromTX]

Good advice, thanks everyone.

 

[Psai]

Your school or home program may well hear about it. They may not hear before the Match, though.
This happened to us. It was one of our students. The PD's at the lied-to programs called the LoE writers from our program to let them know that the person they had recommended was a liar.

And then what?

 

[Stagg737]

And then what?

He was sent to the principal for detention.

 

[theacks1]

Telling a program you will rank them number one is unlikely to improve your position on their rank list. On the other hand, remember that any program that ranks you will be able to see where you matched. The smaller the specialty, the more likely that program directors know each other, and even in something like medicine local PDs may know each other. At best, a program ranks you one or two spots higher and every other program just writes you off as another liar. At worst, you get no benefit while your new boss for the next several years runs into some of those other PDs and hear how you lied to them.

 

[ProfMD]

Most programs won't fall for that BS. We hear many people say that and know they aren't all telling the truth. Doesn't factor into our rank list.

Also, as others have said, program directors do talk. Even if this sort of dishonesty isn't discovered prior to the match, it won't be forgotten after. These physicians are your future colleagues and you will be relying on them to help you with fellowship applications, job applications, etc in the future.

 

[gyngyn]

And then what?

The PD at our program asked the student if the allegation was true. It was confirmed.
The PD called all the programs where false statements were given and told them that this was not the type of behavior that we would ever recommend or condone. We have never forgotten the incident (or the offender...).

 

[ACSurgeon]

When I eventually go on residency interviews, would it be bad if I tell every interviewer that this is my favorite program so they rank me higher in the match? Just so it would increase my chances in getting matched.

Aside from the ethical issue of stretching the truth, could this go badly? I mean do programs communicate with each other about applicants and blacklist people?

Instead of telling programs you're ranking them number 1, try to sell them on why you'd be thrilled to match there and why you'd be a good fit.

 

[Merely]

Pro tip: whenever you have to start a question with "aside from the ethical reasons to not do this" it's probably best you don't do what you're wondering about...

 

[Pisiform]

I guess you could say 'I will be ranking you highly' instead of top or Number 1

I don't think this sort of email help with rank. Every program receives prolly from everyone


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[cbrons]

I guess you could say 'I will be ranking you highly' instead of top or Number 1

I don't think this sort of email help with rank. Every program receives prolly from everyone


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This doesnt mean much lol

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[username456789]

I guess you could say 'I will be ranking you highly' instead of top or Number 1

I don't think this sort of email help with rank. Every program receives prolly from everyone


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All "I will be ranking you highly" tells a program is that they're not your top choice.

Wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Pisiform]

All "I will be ranking you highly" tells a program is that they're not your top choice.

Wouldn't recommend it.

Not really. As I said, it doesn't really mean much, it goes in spam anyway.

I would say wrote few lines why you want to be there and then tell them you are ranking highly or whatever. Better than not getting in touch at all or falsely stating you ranked them #1


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[Lexicon0]

The PD at our program asked the student if the allegation was true. It was confirmed.
The PD called all the programs where false statements were given and told them that this was not the type of behavior that we would ever recommend or condone. We have never forgotten the incident (or the offender...).

Yikes! Has that had any adverse effect on future applicants from your program?

 

[Tenk]

Most PDs don't care when people say this because of people like you.

Most PDs will forget you said it after you leave their office or they delete your email.

Most PDs will blow the same smoke up your ass to get a better match.

Most PDs would not care about you lying to them post match as they have way more important matters.

Do whatever you want. It's all a game and most of them won't even believe you anyways.

 

[username456789]

Not really. As I said, it doesn't really mean much, it goes in spam anyway.

Yes, really.

Saying "I'm ranking you highly" is at best an empty promise, and at worse a way to broadcast to a program that you'd prefer to be elsewhere.

We can agree that post interview communication is mostly pointless. It will almost never help you. It does have the potential to harm you. The "ranking highly" bit may not tank you or anything, but it's not going to help.

 

[gyngyn]

Yikes! Has that had any adverse effect on future applicants from your program?

It's hard to say. No one is going to say that they are retaliating.
It has changed the way students are counseled regarding these "love notes."

 

[mimelim]

Keep in mind that the more specialized your training, the smaller your colleague community will be. And making comments like that may not hurt you for residency applications, if word gets around, it could hurt you for jobs or fellowships.

It has happened a couple of times since I have been on this side of the process. Certainly can't prove it was the causal factor, but I can remember one person not matching and the other not matching IVS. It definitely leaves a bad taste in people's mouths and when you have so many other good candidates, why bother ranking a known liar highly?

 

[Promethean]

Saying "I'm ranking you highly" is at best an empty promise, and at worse a way to broadcast to a program that you'd prefer to be elsewhere.

I disagree with this. I think it is perfectly reasonable to tell a program that you are considering ranking their program highly because of X, Y, and Z aspects of their program, which are extremely important to you and that you admire about them. You can then continue that conversation by asking them to elaborate further on those areas or asking if there is any other aspect of their program that they think you may be excited about, which you've not had the opportunity to discover yet.

This is actually a useful conversation for both parties. It conveys real information about your degree of knowledge, and thus of sincere interest, in their program. It gives them an opportunity to talk positively about their program to you, as if trying to sell it to you. That clarifies the dynamic that you are not just a supplicant there with hat in hand begging for a seat... but a potentially valuable future resident whose interest they have an incentive to court.

It is as sincere as you make it be, and you can absolutely say it to every program you go to, without being at all unethical. Almost as if you were a professional paying due respect to colleagues who extend you the courtesy of an opportunity to meet with them.

 

[username456789]

I disagree with this. I think it is perfectly reasonable to tell a program that you are considering ranking their program highly because of X, Y, and Z aspects of their program, which are extremely important to you and that you admire about them. You can then continue that conversation by asking them to elaborate further on those areas or asking if there is any other aspect of their program that they think you may be excited about, which you've not had the opportunity to discover yet.

This is actually a useful conversation for both parties. It conveys real information about your degree of knowledge, and thus of sincere interest, in their program. It gives them an opportunity to talk positively about their program to you, as if trying to sell it to you. That clarifies the dynamic that you are not just a supplicant there with hat in hand begging for a seat... but a potentially valuable future resident whose interest they have an incentive to court.

It is as sincere as you make it be, and you can absolutely say it to every program you go to, without being at all unethical. Almost as if you were a professional paying due respect to colleagues who extend you the courtesy of an opportunity to meet with them.

I'm not suggesting you can't tell a program while you're in love with them or what impressed you about their program, or open a dialogue about discussing further points of their program; however, using the actual phrasing of "I am planning on ranking you highly" does nothing to help and may very well hurt those who are thin skinned enough to be bothered by an obvious admission of "you're number 2 at best."

I'm saying this as someone who has been on both ends of the process. There are definitely people who will not be thrilled with this message. It's fine to tell them "I was very impressed by my interview with your department and I would be a great fit because _______."

Quite honestly though, most of the post-interview sucking up is largely ignored anyway.

Edit: I know, the instinct is to say "well I don't want to end up somewhere where they will be put off by me saying that" but trust me, even in the best and friendliest departments it only takes one person who just happens to be bothered by it.

 

[Promethean]

Edit: I know, the instinct is to say "well I don't want to end up somewhere where they will be put off by me saying that" but trust me, even in the best and friendliest departments it only takes one person who just happens to be bothered by it.

I hear you. I've been in on deliberations about interviewees before and heard the kinds of gaffes interviewees have made.

Some were outrageous, like bros who hit on female attendings (!) during their interview, while others were just arbitrary and beyond the control of the interviewees, like the one program director who believed he had cracked a code of body language that gave him great insight into personality traits based upon things like which way a person tilted their head when listening. I don't recall the specifics, but one direction was genuine interest while the other was contempt. So, however great the rest of your interview and application might have been, if you held your head the wrong way while he was talking, you went in the reject pile.

The point is... there can always be that one person who has some personal pet peeve that you might stumble upon. There really isn't any way to avoid that, and trying only turns you into the kind of neurotic who comes to SDN and asks if it would be okay to tell every program that they are number one. =)

 

[BurghStudent]

Pro tip: whenever you have to start a question with "aside from the ethical reasons to not do this" it's probably best you don't do what you're wondering about...

Haha, similar to, "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."

 

[DrYoda]

I doubt any program will give a flying **** about being your "top choice" all kinds of people say that.

 

[Stagg737]

Follow-up question to the attendings on here: Do thank you notes after an interview matter? It sounds like a lot of the upfront statements of "I love your program.", "You're my top choice.", etc don't really make much of a difference. Will it hurt a person if they don't send a thank you though? If you do expect a thank you note, what are some no-nos about what to write in it?

 

[Pisiform]

Follow-up question to the attendings on here: Do thank you notes after an interview matter? It sounds like a lot of the upfront statements of "I love your program.", "You're my top choice.", etc don't really make much of a difference. Will it hurt a person if they don't send a thank you though? If you do expect a thank you note, what are some no-nos about what to write in it?

I don't think it will hurt. I am not sure they even remember. But I talked to some residents and attending and they said whenever they get a thank you letter or something, they put it in the applicants file.

I doubt it would help, but it's a common courtesy to send one


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[ProfMD]

Follow-up question to the attendings on here: Do thank you notes after an interview matter? It sounds like a lot of the upfront statements of "I love your program.", "You're my top choice.", etc don't really make much of a difference. Will it hurt a person if they don't send a thank you though? If you do expect a thank you note, what are some no-nos about what to write in it?

I don't think it makes a huge difference. However, it is common courtesy. The letter do go in the file and their absence may be noted.

 

[Stagg737]

I don't think it makes a huge difference. However, it is common courtesy. The letter do go in the file and their absence may be noted.

I think that's my real question, would not writing them be some sort of red flag? I usually write thank you notes to all my attendings, so guess it's more hypothetical. Just wondering if there's anything that should or shouldn't be included other than thank you.