Scary- Anes. News October Issue

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Scary News: Anes. news October 2005 Issue reports that Anesthesiologists kill themselves more than any other specialty.

Any body has seen this?

 

[livewires]

I just finished an ER rotation and the ER doc made the same point. However, he said that most anesthesiologists kill themselves in car accidents with the radiologists in the parking lot while trying to leave the hospital. Then he laughed. Then he started bitching about his night shifts. Then I laughed.

 

[jc237]

I just finished an ER rotation and the ER doc made the same point. However, he said that most anesthesiologists kill themselves in car accidents with the radiologists in the parking lot while trying to leave the hospital. Then he laughed. Then he started bitching about his night shifts. Then I laughed.

i know this is a serious thread but this is hilarious stuff, man...

 

[jc237]

Scary News: Anes. news October 2005 Issue reports that Anesthesiologists kill themselves more than any other specialty.

Any body has seen this?

What was the article's explanation for this? I'm very curious. Anyone know?

 

[bullard]

Anesthesiologists have easy access to drugs and know exactly how much to take to do the job. Pretty simple.

 

[jc237]

Anesthesiologists have easy access to drugs and know exactly how much to take to do the job. Pretty simple.

Bullard, yes I know they have easy access to drugs and know how much to take. But why do they want to kill themselves though? You're talking about suicide. Is there something inherent to anesthesiologists? Are you saying the internists, pediatricians, surgeons all would have the same suicide rate if they have similar access to drugs???

Maybe it's because they're more likely to "try" stuff to begin with due to easy access... once they "try", they're hooked, and things start to spiral down from there, leading to depression, attempted suicides, greater doses causing accidental deaths...

 

[lvspro]

Bullard, yes I know they have easy access to drugs and know how much to take. But why do they want to kill themselves though? You're talking about suicide. Is there something inherent to anesthesiologists? Are you saying the internists, pediatricians, surgeons all would have the same suicide rate if they have similar access to drugs???

Maybe it's because they're more likely to "try" stuff to begin with due to easy access... once they "try", they're hooked, and things start to spiral down from there, leading to depression, attempted suicides, greater doses causing accidental deaths...

I've heard this b4, and also vaguely remember that the logic for it is that it's a high-powered specialty with tons of deadlines, and a small margin for error. This=greater stress, coupled with the easy access, and the know-how of super-potent drugs is a recipe for disaster... so they say. I guess I could see the logic, but I've always said the flaw is that not everyone approaches this stressful milieu with.... uh stress. Many people thrive in these environments, and actually enjoy them. Either way, I'm interested in hearing other opinions, facts, or urban legends about this topic.

 

[chicamedica]

Scary News: Anes. news October 2005 Issue reports that Anesthesiologists kill themselves more than any other specialty.

Any body has seen this?

Wasn't the same thing said about psychiatrists and dentists? 🙄

I think it's bs.

 

[militarymd]

I've heard this b4, and also vaguely remember that the logic for it is that it's a high-powered specialty with tons of deadlines, and a small margin for error. This=greater stress, coupled with the easy access, and the know-how of super-potent drugs is a recipe for disaster... so they say. I guess I could see the logic, but I've always said the flaw is that not everyone approaches this stressful milieu with.... uh stress. Many people thrive in these environments, and actually enjoy them. Either way, I'm interested in hearing other opinions, facts, or urban legends about this topic.

Here is my opinion.....folks pick it because of "lifestyle"....they're a l__y bunch (I'm leaving out the sensitve words), and when the reality of practice don't meet the expectations of 400,000 a year with 20 hour weeks and no weekends.......they kill themselves.

How else can you explain this? in a "lifestyle" specialty?

 

[Idiopathic]

I definitely think that this is an access issue. Id like to see a breakdown (mechanical suicide versus phramacological suicide). That would help make it a little more clear.

 

[adleyinga]

I definitely think that this is an access issue. Id like to see a breakdown (mechanical suicide versus phramacological suicide). That would help make it a little more clear.

Do you have the article

Drug use and drug overdose has long been known to have a higher incidence among anesthesia providers.
Did the article say suicide or overdose?

This brings up a good point for students considering anesthesia.

IF you ever used drugs seriously in college/med school then I would avoid anesthesia like the plague.
This is the only time I will follow the language of militarymd

GET THE HELL OUT

For your own sake. I have seen too many residents get addicted.
As one resident once said- They tried Fentanyl once and knew they were hooked.

OH- apparently the drug of choice these days in anesthesia is sevoflurane because not traceable and not controlled. This may explain a perserved increase in suicide- if it is real- people trying to get high on sevo end up dead and others call it suicide

 

[fedor]

Cause-specific Mortality Risks of Anesthesiologists.
Anesthesiology. 93(4):922-930, October 2000.
Alexander, Bruce H. Ph.D. *; Checkoway, Harvey Ph.D. +; Nagahama, Sonia I. B.A. ++; Domino, Karen B. M.D., M.P.H.
Abstract:
Background: The health-related effects of the operating room environment are unclear. The authors compared mortality risks of anesthesiologists to those of internal medicine physicians between 1979 and 1995.

Methods: The Physician Master File database, a listing of all US physicians, was used to identify anesthesiologists and general internists. The cohort of internists (n = 40,211) was a stratified random sample of all internists, frequency-matched to the cohort of anesthesiologists (n = 40,242) by gender, decade of birth, and US citizenship. The National Death Index was used to confirm death status and to determine specific causes of death. Mortality risks, adjusted for age, gender, and race, were compared using the Cox proportional hazards regression model.

Results: The standardized mortality ratios for all physicians were well below 1.0, except for suicide. The all-cause mortality ratios, and the risks of death caused by cancer and heart disease, did not differ between anesthesiologists and internists. Anesthesiologists had an increased risk of death from suicide (rate ratio [RR] = 1.45, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.07 - 1.97), drug-related death (RR = 2.79, 95% CI = 1.87 - 4.15), death from other external causes (RR = 1.53, 95% CI = 1.05 - 2.22), and death from cerebrovascular disease (RR = 1.39, 95% CI = 1.08 - 1.79). Male anesthesiologists had an increased risk of death from HIV (RR = 1.82, 95% CI = 1.09 - 3.02) and viral hepatitis (RR = 7.98, 95% CI = 1.0 - 63.84). Although the risk to anesthesiologists of drug-related deaths was highest in the first 5 years after medical school graduation, it remained increased over that of internists throughout the career.

Conclusions: Substance abuse and suicide represent significant occupational hazards for anesthesiologists. New methods to combat substance abuse among anesthesiologists should be developed.

 

[lvspro]

Here is my opinion.....folks pick it because of "lifestyle"....they're a l__y bunch (I'm leaving out the sensitve words), and when the reality of practice don't meet the expectations of 400,000 a year with 20 hour weeks and no weekends.......they kill themselves.

How else can you explain this? in a "lifestyle" specialty?

I could see that happening. "OMG, you mean I have to stay past 1700 on friday??? I wanted to go to an avon party soooo bad! I think I'll just end it all damnit" (commence injection of high potencey narcotic).
😀

 

[chicamedica]

Do you have the article

Drug use and drug overdose has long been known to have a higher incidence among anesthesia providers.
Did the article say suicide or overdose?

This brings up a good point for students considering anesthesia.

IF you ever used drugs seriously in college/med school then I would avoid anesthesia like the plague.
This is the only time I will follow the language of militarymd

GET THE HELL OUT

For your own sake. I have seen too many residents get addicted.
As one resident once said- They tried Fentanyl once and knew they were hooked.

OH- apparently the drug of choice these days in anesthesia is sevoflurane because not traceable and not controlled. This may explain a perserved increase in suicide- if it is real- people trying to get high on sevo end up dead and others call it suicide

Sevo can give people a high?? Dont they just fall asleep? Anyway I couldn't imagine someone liking to sniff sevo. . .caught a whiff of it the other day and it STINKS! 😱

And I agree, people who have a history of drug dependence (or even drug experimentation) probably shouldn't be going into anesthesia because the temptation to relapse is ubiquitous. Personally, I have no desire to put weird chemicals into my body or to be anything but totally sober. (although this sleep deprivation is hindering my state of lucid sobriety lately)

 

[adleyinga]

Cause-specific Mortality Risks of Anesthesiologists.
Anesthesiology. 93(4):922-930, October 2000.
Alexander, Bruce H. Ph.D. *; Checkoway, Harvey Ph.D. +; Nagahama, Sonia I. B.A. ++; Domino, Karen B. M.D., M.P.H.

Thanks,

 

[lvspro]

Cause-specific Mortality Risks of Anesthesiologists.
Anesthesiology. 93(4):922-930, October 2000.
Alexander, Bruce H. Ph.D. *; Checkoway, Harvey Ph.D. +; Nagahama, Sonia I. B.A. ++; Domino, Karen B. M.D., M.P.H.
Abstract:
Background: The health-related effects of the operating room environment are unclear. The authors compared mortality risks of anesthesiologists to those of internal medicine physicians between 1979 and 1995.

Methods: The Physician Master File database, a listing of all US physicians, was used to identify anesthesiologists and general internists. The cohort of internists (n = 40,211) was a stratified random sample of all internists, frequency-matched to the cohort of anesthesiologists (n = 40,242) by gender, decade of birth, and US citizenship. The National Death Index was used to confirm death status and to determine specific causes of death. Mortality risks, adjusted for age, gender, and race, were compared using the Cox proportional hazards regression model.

Results: The standardized mortality ratios for all physicians were well below 1.0, except for suicide. The all-cause mortality ratios, and the risks of death caused by cancer and heart disease, did not differ between anesthesiologists and internists. Anesthesiologists had an increased risk of death from suicide (rate ratio [RR] = 1.45, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.07 - 1.97), drug-related death (RR = 2.79, 95% CI = 1.87 - 4.15), death from other external causes (RR = 1.53, 95% CI = 1.05 - 2.22), and death from cerebrovascular disease (RR = 1.39, 95% CI = 1.08 - 1.79). Male anesthesiologists had an increased risk of death from HIV (RR = 1.82, 95% CI = 1.09 - 3.02) and viral hepatitis (RR = 7.98, 95% CI = 1.0 - 63.84). Although the risk to anesthesiologists of drug-related deaths was highest in the first 5 years after medical school graduation, it remained increased over that of internists throughout the career.

Conclusions: Substance abuse and suicide represent significant occupational hazards for anesthesiologists. New methods to combat substance abuse among anesthesiologists should be developed.

The flaw in this study is that it assumes that b/c a higher incidence of abuse was reported in anesthesiology, then there must be more people in anesthesia using drugs. It makes the leap from effect to cause without substantiating the connection. The higher incidence may be a result of greater rates of detection among anesthesiologists. Since anes. is the role model of quality control in medicine, then I think it's fair to assume that we're pretty good at spotting colleagues that are addicted... a sort of internal quality control, if you will. Just a thought.

🙂

 

[davvid2700]

Sevo can give people a high?? Dont they just fall asleep? Anyway I couldn't imagine someone liking to sniff sevo. . .caught a whiff of it the other day and it STINKS! 😱

And I agree, people who have a history of drug dependence (or even drug experimentation) probably shouldn't be going into anesthesia because the temptation to relapse is ubiquitous. Personally, I have no desire to put weird chemicals into my body or to be anything but totally sober. (although this sleep deprivation is hindering my state of lucid sobriety lately)

I agree.. sniffing that poison (sevo, iso, halothane) is awful.. all it does it put you to sleep it wont give you a high or a buzz.. Im not speaking from personal experience..

Incidentally, I have known 2 people who died from substance abuse.. one a resident he was a ca 2 when i was a ca1.. He didnt show up to work for a few days.. called landlord.. went to his house.. he was room temperature.. abusing sufenta.. the other.. established cardiac anesthesiologist...

so I guess that is way above average.. because how many people can say they know 2 people who killed hemselves.. I think the first was an occupational hazard of injecting sufenta..

I think the depression and thoughts of suicide may come from .. its high stress job.. ( more stressful then surgery in my opinion).. you dont have control over your schedule.. you are always trying to please surgeons have them like you.. and if you couple this with some personal issues.. ****ty home life it can have a bad outcome

 

[adleyinga]

The flaw in this study is that it assumes that b/c a higher incidence of abuse was reported in anesthesiology, then there must be more people in anesthesia using drugs. It makes the leap from effect to cause without substantiating the connection. The higher incidence may be a result of greater rates of detection among anesthesiologists. Since anes. is the role model of quality control in medicine, then I think it's fair to assume that we're pretty good at spotting colleagues that are addicted... a sort of internal quality control, if you will. Just a thought.

🙂

Your right about the abuse and reporting rates but what I find interesting is the suicide rate and general death rate.

For awhile there was scares of higher incidence of brain tumors among anesthesia providers and that fizzled out but is there something to this chronic exposure to ozone depleting drugs we use

 

[lvspro]

Your right about the abuse and reporting rates but what I find interesting is the suicide rate and general death rate.

For awhile there was scares of higher incidence of brain tumors among anesthesia providers and that fizzled out but is there something to this chronic exposure to ozone depleting drugs we use

Maybe if IM had access to anes drugs, they would use 'em... hell, if I was in IM I'd definitely use 'em to put me out of my misery. 😀

 

[lvspro]

For awhile there was scares of higher incidence of brain tumors among anesthesia providers and that fizzled out but is there something to this chronic exposure to ozone depleting drugs we use

I've wondered the same. Last year on this forum, the exposure topic came up, and was discussed for a few pages. Apparently there is a very, very small amount of leakage of volatiles during anes. It's inherent in the design of the machine. There were a few studies that were quoted that showed no increase in tumors, pulmonary pathology, mental fxn etc... Even so, it just seems logical that chronic low level exposure may do something. This is all philisophical, more than anything else, so take it w/a grain of salt

 

[jetproppilot]

Maybe if IM had access to anes drugs, they would use 'em... hell, if I was in IM I'd definitely use 'em to put me out of my misery. 😀

You say it comically, but I believe you're right, lvspro.

Like the posters have said above,

(Easy access) + (Stress) + (some kind of substance issue) = The Next Dead Resident.

During my residency, THREE anesthesia residents in louisiana committed suicide. Nobody I knew. Involved the two other programs in La...(there usta be 3 programs...Tulane, LSU, Oschner)

I remember feeling like...WTF? Another Dead Resident?

So sad.

 

[Monitor]

I just finished an ER rotation and the ER doc made the same point. However, he said that most anesthesiologists kill themselves in car accidents with the radiologists in the parking lot while trying to leave the hospital. Then he laughed. Then he started bitching about his night shifts. Then I laughed.

Dude,

Tell that one again. Tell the part where he bitched about night shifts again.

 

[jetproppilot]

Dude,

Tell that one again. Tell the part where he bitched about night shifts again.

Sorry to burst ya'll's bubble, but most anesthesiologists in the usa do night call.

Not as bad as ER's swing shift kinda lifestyle, though. IMHO.

But it still sucks.

 

[SnakePlissken01]

I'll add my two cents to this... For a clinical medicine class last year, we had a speaker who told us this fact. Actually, the reason that the rates of substance abuse are so high for Anesth. is that they have the best reporting system for substance abuse of all specialties. Vigilance really is key. 😀

 

[jetproppilot]

I'll add my two cents to this... For a clinical medicine class last year, we had a speaker who told us this fact. Actually, the reason that the rates of substance abuse are so high for Anesth. is that they have the best reporting system for substance abuse of all specialties. Vigilance really is key. 😀

I missed the point.

Youre saying that the reporting system for drug use is better in anesthesia, so more clinicians use more drugs than other specialties?

HUHH????

 

[jetproppilot]

I'll add my two cents to this... For a clinical medicine class last year, we had a speaker who told us this fact. Actually, the reason that the rates of substance abuse are so high for Anesth. is that they have the best reporting system for substance abuse of all specialties. Vigilance really is key. 😀

I missed the point.

Youre saying that the reporting system for drug use is better in anesthesia, so more clinicians use more drugs than other specialties?

HUHH????

 

[jetproppilot]

I'll add my two cents to this... For a clinical medicine class last year, we had a speaker who told us this fact. Actually, the reason that the rates of substance abuse are so high for Anesth. is that they have the best reporting system for substance abuse of all specialties. Vigilance really is key. 😀

I missed the point.

Youre saying that the reporting system for drug use is better in anesthesia, so more clinicians use more drugs than other specialties?

HUHH????

 

[SnakePlissken01]

No that's not what I meant. Because of good reporting, the drug rate for anesthesiologists looks higher than for other specialties. The rate of drug use may be just as high for other specialties, but because reporting of drug abuse is not as good, the reported rates are lower.

Let me dumb it down even more: if you have 16 squirrels, and 3 of them smoke crack, but the other squirrels don't report them in the annual statistics, everyone will think that squirrels are drug free, but this really isn't the case. With better reporting, (like anesthesiologists) you see higher rates of squirrel drug abuse. So the better reporting just makes it seem like anesthesiologists are worse than other physicians. Which they are probably not.

 

[bullard]

So I went back and dug through my ASA crap and found the article the original poster mentioned.

Quote from the article:

"Anesthesiologists appear more prone to suicide than other medical specialists, but the data are based on small studies and do not achieve statistical significance"

That's a pretty sensational headline given that the data sucks ass. Damn media...

 

[jetproppilot]

No that's not what I meant. Because of good reporting, the drug rate for anesthesiologists looks higher than for other specialties. The rate of drug use may be just as high for other specialties, but because reporting of drug abuse is not as good, the reported rates are lower.

Let me dumb it down even more: if you have 16 squirrels, and 3 of them smoke crack, but the other squirrels don't report them in the annual statistics, everyone will think that squirrels are drug free, but this really isn't the case. With better reporting, (like anesthesiologists) you see higher rates of squirrel drug abuse. So the better reporting just makes it seem like anesthesiologists are worse than other physicians. Which they are probably not.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I may be a redneck from Florida, but I DID have the message figured out before the squirrels started smoking crack. Hopefully they'll stop.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Noyac]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I may be a redneck from Florida, but I DID have the message figured out before the squirrels started smoking crack. Hopefully they'll stop.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Damn glad you got Jet.
But you are a funny son-of-a-b*tch.
And don't count on them stopping, that **** is addictive, DUDE.

 

[jetproppilot]

Damn glad you got Jet.
But you are a funny son-of-a-b*tch.
And don't count on them stopping, that **** is addictive, DUDE.

Gotta agree with you, Noyac. Thats some funny sh it, squirrels sittin around a lonely campground, lookin' around cautiously for the Bill Murray-on-Caddyshack-looking-mo-fo.....

"He's gotta bout' a five iron.....hundred eighty to the green......crowdths onittts feet..."

 

[Pilot Doc]

The authors compared mortality risks of anesthesiologists to those of internal medicine physicians between 1979 and 1995.

Male anesthesiologists had an increased risk of death from HIV (RR = 1.82, 95% CI = 1.09 - 3.02) and viral hepatitis (RR = 7.98, 95% CI = 1.0 - 63.84).

Boy, I find that data much more troubling than the suicide data. (Of course, I'm a surgeon...) I have not previously seen evidence that invasive physicians were suffering measurable mortality from HIV & hepatits. (I presume the difference is from occupational exposure - possible not true.) Although 79-95 was a bad time for HIV, the data is still very interesting. Any idea what the absolute numbers are?

 

[jetproppilot]

Boy, I find that data much more troubling than the suicide data. (Of course, I'm a surgeon...) I have not previously seen evidence that invasive physicians were suffering measurable mortality from HIV & hepatits. (I presume the difference is from occupational exposure - possible not true.) Although 79-95 was a bad time for HIV, the data is still very interesting. Any idea what the absolute numbers are?

DUDE, WTF are you talking about? (Of course, I'm an anesthesiologist...)

 

[militarymd]

So I went back and dug through my ASA crap and found the article the original poster mentioned.

Quote from the article:

"Anesthesiologists appear more prone to suicide than other medical specialists, but the data are based on small studies and do not achieve statistical significance"

That's a pretty sensational headline given that the data sucks ass. Damn media...

That's the media for you. There was a recent Audio Digest edition which talked about this issue too, and said pretty much the same thing.

Perhaps a lot of anesthesiologists who die/committ suicide do so at work? so it grabs a lot of peoples attention?

Or perhpas when one passes....their immediate impact is felt immediately...ie the OR schedule is disrupted...so it is more noticeable than say an internist who just disrupts his office or a surgeon who disrupts his own schedule.

If a surgeon becomes unavailable and his cases cancel....a lot of times the OR breaths a sign of relief from the break in the schedule.

 

[etherRN]

In the ICU we have to witness eachother if we don't administer everything in the vial. We have access to multiple scheduled drugs, but with accountability. What systems are in place to account for waste (on narcs and gasses) in the OR?

 

[Pilot Doc]

DUDE, WTF are you talking about?

Compared to internists, anesthesiologists are twice as likely to die of AIDS and 8 times as likely to die of hepatitis. If I were an anesthesioligist, I would find that more frightening than the suicide data.

 

[jetproppilot]

Compared to internists, anesthesiologists are twice as likely to die of AIDS and 8 times as likely to die of hepatitis. If I were an anesthesioligist, I would find that more frightening than the suicide data.

Makes sense I guess, with all the plastic tubes we insert into the circulatory system

 

[PassGasNow]

Originally Posted by Pilot Doc
Compared to internists, anesthesiologists are twice as likely to die of AIDS and 8 times as likely to die of hepatitis. If I were an anesthesioligist, I would find that more frightening than the suicide data.

Makes sense I guess, with all the plastic tubes we insert into the circulatory system

Nah, I figure we are just sleeping with more Hatians, ******, and Hemophiliacs than everybody else.

 

[PassGasNow]

Here is my opinion.....folks pick it because of "lifestyle"....they're a l__y bunch (I'm leaving out the sensitve words), and when the reality of practice don't meet the expectations of 400,000 a year with 20 hour weeks and no weekends.......they kill themselves.

Here is my opinion.....folks pick this specialty because they think they'll have cool coworkers....then they meet MilitaryMan, and when the reality doesn't meet the expectations.......they kill themselves.

 

[rn29306]

You can sure pick 'em.. Exactly how do you go about choosing two of the top three most influential posters on this board to start a pissing war with? Bet your future co-workers are just gonna love ya.

Ya got balls I tell ya.

 

[bigdan]

...a public service announcement as a reminder for the group...

"feel free to use the IGNORE function prn"

dc

 

[Crash cart]

Here is my opinion.....folks pick it because of "lifestyle"....they're a l__y bunch (I'm leaving out the sensitve words), and when the reality of practice don't meet the expectations of 400,000 a year with 20 hour weeks and no weekends.......they kill themselves.

How else can you explain this? in a "lifestyle" specialty?

Come on... Are you serious? Your response is almost as ridiculus as the jackass who asked if he was "too buff" for interviews. Not everyone goes into anesthesia for the lifestyle and not everyone in anesthesia is lazy. There are lazy doctors in every specialty and your response is simple-minded at best. I would expect more from someone who touts themself as highly as you do.

 

[militarymd]

I would expect more from someone who touts themself as highly as you do.

1) I don't tout myself highly.

2) You get good posts and not so good posts from everyone.....there will always be differences in opinion.

There's no right or wrong...there is opinion...and boy...some people sure get upset about some opinion posted by some anonymous dude on the internet.

Now I think that shows insecurities. I don't get upset when people call me outdated, old fashioned, etc.....I just say that's life....

I call someone a descriptive term that I think fits, and what do I get???? Name calling....

Oh well.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Come on... Are you serious? Your response is almost as ridiculus as the jackass who asked if he was "too buff" for interviews. Not everyone goes into anesthesia for the lifestyle and not everyone in anesthesia is lazy. There are lazy doctors in every specialty and your response is simple-minded at best.

Regardless of the validity of militarymd's opinion - which I won't address - your critique of him isn't very well thought out. If laziness and unmet expectations lead to suicide, the question is whether those qualities are overrepresented in anesthesia. Your (true) assertions that those qualities are 1) present to some degree in all specialties, and 2) not universal in anesthesia have no bearing on MMD's initial argument.

 

[VentdependenT]

Originally Posted by Pilot Doc
Compared to internists, anesthesiologists are twice as likely to die of AIDS and 8 times as likely to die of hepatitis. If I were an anesthesioligist, I would find that more frightening than the suicide data.



Nah, I figure we are just sleeping with more Hatians, ******, and Hemophiliacs than everybody else.

That humor is darker than both my coffee and my urine this am.

BTW I saw two squirrels blowing rales today outside the jiffy lube....what the heck is going on. No update on squirrels.com.

 

[jetproppilot]

Here is my opinion.....folks pick this specialty because they think they'll have cool coworkers....then they meet MilitaryMan, and when the reality doesn't meet the expectations.......they kill themselves.

F uck you.

 

[adleyinga]

Here is my opinion.....folks pick this specialty because they think they'll have cool coworkers....then they meet MilitaryMan, and when the reality doesn't meet the expectations.......they kill themselves.

This is below you- you have taken a very serious issue that effects us all and turn it into a pissing contest.
If people commit suicide it is because they have internal personal problem-not because they don't like someone