- cGPA: 3.96; sGPA: 3.97
- 515 (130/125/130/130)
- State: SC
- Ethnicity: Asian
- School: Public university
- Clinical experience: currently around 200 hours; will continue until next year so I should have around 150 more hours by then
- Research: 2 years in wet lab; poster presentation; manuscript will be submitted later this year. I've also done clinical research for a year and a half; poster presentation.
- Shadowing: Around 85 hours neurology; 20 surgery (I plan on doing more)
- Non-clinical volunteering: more than 300 hours; founded club; leader of many club initiatives for 2+ years
- Other extracurricular activities: leadership in both nonclinical and clinical volunteering as head or co-director; TA for 2 years (unpaid)
- Relevant honors or awards: Dean's list/president's list; got a grant to fund research
- Anything else not listed you think might be important
School list 515 MCAT 3.96 GPA
- Thread starter thecars98
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Apply to all your South Carolina public MD schools. You could add any of these schools:
Duke
Emory
Miami
Wake Forest
Tulane
Virginia Commonwealth
Case Western
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rochester
Hofstra
Einstein
Jefferson
Boston University
Tufts
Georgetown
George Washington
St. Louis
Duke
Emory
Miami
Wake Forest
Tulane
Virginia Commonwealth
Case Western
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rochester
Hofstra
Einstein
Jefferson
Boston University
Tufts
Georgetown
George Washington
St. Louis
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All those schools give preferences to their own state residents to varying degrees. Schools such as Harvard or Stanford are reaches with your MCAT of 515.
Out of the top 30 schools, which do you think would be reaches in addition to Harvard and Stanford? And are there some reaches that may be more of a reach than others? I was hoping my gpa, letters or rec from PI and physicians, and publication would help overcome the low MCAT.
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You can try any top 30 schools that appeal to you and my list contains several. As I mentioned above certain schools give preference to their own state residents.
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For non-clinical volunteering, get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself.
You don't need any more shadowing.
I suggest:
Mt Sinai
U VA
Mayo (maybe)
U MI
Case
U VM
U IA
U Toledo
USF Morsani
OH State
UCF
U Cincy
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Albert Einstein
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
USC/Keck
Dartmouth
Seton Hall
MCW
Loyola
Emory
BU
Duke
Pitt
Hofstra
Tufts
Oakland-B
Western MI
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
CUSM IF you're from CA
Kaiser IF you're from CA
Your state school(s).
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I think that you're in striking distance for BU and Dartmouth.
But the other Ivies and other Really Top Schools? Nope.
But the other Ivies and other Really Top Schools? Nope.
D
deleted987519
Boston...Baylor College of Medicine is not affiliated with Baylor University believe it or not...they’re even in two different cities
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But if the OP has a strong personal narrative or research, wouldnt OP still have decent shot at some T20s?
A lot of schools have 518 medians but surely some ppl must be below that..(that are also non-URM/vet etc)
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the top research schools already have a surplus of people who have the bonafides that you're talking about and stronger MCAT scores as well.
The higher up one has to climb the slipperier the pole gets.
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If cost is not a significant factor, I say, shoot your shot. You have nothing to lose (besides time and money). Worth it IMO
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If you really want to have a good shot at a top school, which looks like you really want, why not retaking the MCAT? you can improve on your CARS quite easily and 130 on the other sections are great but you can easily get better at those too. 130 to 131 is like 2 to 3 questions apart. Then shoot your shot.
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Agree
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Why don’t you get some nonclinical volunteering off campus, out of your comfort zone. Don’t worry about more surgery shadowing. Find a primary care doc and shadow that person. Buy the MSAR and do some research yourself and look at specific schools that appeal to you. See how they feel about OOS applicants, the location etc..You have months to develop your application. Come back in April with a list of your own and people will be glad to help you out. It seems like currently you are only focused on T10-20. That might not be a good plan.
One thing you shouldn’t do is retake your very good MCAT.
One thing you shouldn’t do is retake your very good MCAT.
Thanks for the advice! I have been doing nonclinical volunteering for the past few years and will continue this year as well and I will start the shadow in the primary care. I really would like to have a decent shot at the T10-T20 and I understand that there are way more competitive applicants so I want to know if I have a decent shot based on my stats and ECs, assuming I continue them for the next few months to get more experience.
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It’s so hard to say. In fact it’s pretty impossible. It’s a crap shoot, especially at the T20. Did you know that out of all the applicants each year only 40 percent are accepted at any school(20% at one school and 20% at more than one school). That means that 60 percent of all applicants are rejected. That has to include some stellar applicants. All you can do is develop the best application possible and develop a great list of schools.
diasterdream
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Shoot your shot. If you got the money and time, apply to the T30 schools like Michigan and Duke that appeal to you on top of the schools recommended by Faha and Goro.
Here is some personal advice: please understand that nobody is a guarantee at any medical school. You need to realize that stats are not the end all-be all of an application. I know you want to aim high, but please do not seek validation from in getting in a T30 school. They are hard to get into for people with higher stats and more experiences than you.
Reflect on your narrative and figure out what makes you stand out. This quality will help you more than your stats. You have a solid application, and I know you will get into medical school, but at the stage, figure out how to make your narrative as compelling as possible before worrying about school lists.
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I believe in being conservative when aiming high. A 515 is barely above Colombia's 10th %ile for acceptees.
People come to SDN for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses.
Faha’s list is realistic for you. Your GPA is stellar, your ECs are fine, and your MCAT is fine. I don’t think schools like Duke, Michigan, Baylor, or UCLA/UCSF are realistic for you because of your MCAT score. But you should always have a few reaches on your list, so if you really want to, go for it. I think T20’s are too much of a reach for you, but you should shoot your shot with 2-3 of them (make them realistic schools that you really want to attend—T10’s are a no). In other words, if you want to make MI, Pitt, and Baylor your reaches, I think that’s fine. But the rest of your schools should include T50’s that give decent consideration to OOS residents and your IS schools.
With the new MSAR update, I think Case, Duke, and UVA moved out of your striking range with their 519 median MCAT scores, and even though UCLA and UCSF went down in their averages (MCAT and GPA respectively), I’d say they are still out of reach for you because of their in-state bias. I would say a solid reach for you has a ~517 median MCAT.
With the new MSAR update, I think Case, Duke, and UVA moved out of your striking range with their 519 median MCAT scores, and even though UCLA and UCSF went down in their averages (MCAT and GPA respectively), I’d say they are still out of reach for you because of their in-state bias. I would say a solid reach for you has a ~517 median MCAT.
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Hey! Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it. I do have a few questions, though. I saw on one of the forums here (it was posted maybe a year or two ago) with Goro's advice that a school's median MCAT 2-4 points away would be in striking distance, so I was under that assumption while creating my school list (which I'm still in the process of doing). Hence I thought Michigan and Pitt, for example, would be within my reach. Is that not the case anymore or was I mistaken in what I read?
Let me preface with this: I am a CA, ORM applicant with a 515/3.82 who submitted 36 secondaries and only got 5 IIs - all at schools with lower median stats than mine (CalMed/CUSM, CA Northstate, Wake Forest, Drexel, and Utah - where I went to undergrad). Perhaps my ECs were subpar (certainly not terrible, but not as good as yours), but you'll have to forgive me for being a bit of a conservative/pessimist about this process. I did not receive interviews from any of my public in-state schools (the UCs) despite growing up 20 minutes from the UC Davis campus (and having higher-than-average stats on both fronts).
It's all certainly a matter of opinion - as we really don't know what will stand out to the specific adcom member who reads your app. The best rule of thumb to use is if you are above their 25 percentile MCAT score and GPA, then you are within striking distance. For example, Duke's 25-75 percentile range is a 516-522. That leaves you out. Michigan's is 514-521- which puts you in the running. HOWEVER, striking distance does not mean it is likely that you will get an interview or an acceptance to said school. It just means that there's some kind of chance at an interview IF you have something else that seriously stands out about your application. I do think it is good to apply to reach schools, but realistically, the people who get those lower-MCAT spots in the T20 schools are URMs, vets, or ORMs with seriously impressive ECs (ie first author pubs, started a non-profit, or has personal connections with the school). Your ECs are fine/good, but in my opinion, they are not enough for a Case/Duke/UVA-type school because they want a much higher MCAT score - especially for their ORM candidates (you are <25% MCAT for each).
To summarize, apply to Michigan and Pitt (because you are >25th percentile MCAT), but focus on the T50's because every med school has to sort through thousands of applicants who, in many ways, will be better than you.
Remember that 50% of people don't even get in on their first try, and I am convinced that group is filled with people who are unrealistic about the process. For example, one of my buddies had a 518/3.9 with great ECs. He applied to 18 schools as a Kansas resident, and the majority of them were low-probability schools (like Mayo, NYU, Vandy, Duke, a bunch of Texas schools, Utah, Arizona, etc). He is currently sitting without any acceptances, even though he had a stellar application.
Take everything I've said with a grain of salt- as I am just bitter with my IS schools. You really do have a shot at some great schools because your ECs are solid and your GPA is excellent. So maybe you apply to a few more T20's than I recommend, but certainly not more than 5.
It's all certainly a matter of opinion - as we really don't know what will stand out to the specific adcom member who reads your app. The best rule of thumb to use is if you are above their 25 percentile MCAT score and GPA, then you are within striking distance. For example, Duke's 25-75 percentile range is a 516-522. That leaves you out. Michigan's is 514-521- which puts you in the running. HOWEVER, striking distance does not mean it is likely that you will get an interview or an acceptance to said school. It just means that there's some kind of chance at an interview IF you have something else that seriously stands out about your application. I do think it is good to apply to reach schools, but realistically, the people who get those lower-MCAT spots in the T20 schools are URMs, vets, or ORMs with seriously impressive ECs (ie first author pubs, started a non-profit, or has personal connections with the school). Your ECs are fine/good, but in my opinion, they are not enough for a Case/Duke/UVA-type school because they want a much higher MCAT score - especially for their ORM candidates (you are <25% MCAT for each).
To summarize, apply to Michigan and Pitt (because you are >25th percentile MCAT), but focus on the T50's because every med school has to sort through thousands of applicants who, in many ways, will be better than you.
Remember that 50% of people don't even get in on their first try, and I am convinced that group is filled with people who are unrealistic about the process. For example, one of my buddies had a 518/3.9 with great ECs. He applied to 18 schools as a Kansas resident, and the majority of them were low-probability schools (like Mayo, NYU, Vandy, Duke, a bunch of Texas schools, Utah, Arizona, etc). He is currently sitting without any acceptances, even though he had a stellar application.
Take everything I've said with a grain of salt- as I am just bitter with my IS schools. You really do have a shot at some great schools because your ECs are solid and your GPA is excellent. So maybe you apply to a few more T20's than I recommend, but certainly not more than 5.
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Remove Duke but keep all the other schools on my list.
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I appreciate the advice @Goro
blackbird23
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Hey! I had similar stats to you (4.0/514) and applied this past cycle, so I feel the high GPA/low-ish MCAT struggle. Also ORM.
I posted something on this forum asking what I should do before this past cycle. I was told similar to what people are telling you: I had too low of an MCAT for T10 and I shouldn't bother applying to any. But I decided to shoot my shot at a few top schools. I am from CA, so obviously I did all the UCs, but also Stanford and Harvard (I didn't want to end up on the East Coast, so I didn't apply to any others. I would rather go to a UC).
I interviewed at both Stanford and Harvard (as well as UCLA, other top UCs) and have 3 acceptances in the T20 (2 in T10). All of my acceptances came from schools with an MCAT mean higher than my score. I don't mean to post this to brag AT ALL, but I wanted to give you a bit of hope. Your narrative is really really important in this process, and I fully believe it was my unique story/interests that helped me. If you have a unique story and make your narrative stand out I don't believe your MCAT will hold you back, especially with your GPA.
It's important to apply broadly, and I did as well. I'm not recommending that you limit the number of schools you apply to and I think all the suggestions above are great. But throw in a few apps to top schools if you have the money. It's worth a shot. If you need any help with essays PM me, I'd be more than happy to chat further about my application cycle as well. I was SO defeated about my MCAT, and I want to provide perspective to others to show that it is not everything. Best of luck to you!
EDIT: Before people make assumptions, I had none of the ECs mentioned in m1redsox's post above. I just did a lot of work with a population that I'm passionate about and some research w one mid-author pub in a pretty low-impact journal. Nothing out of the ordinary, but I was passionate about what I did, which I think came through.
I posted something on this forum asking what I should do before this past cycle. I was told similar to what people are telling you: I had too low of an MCAT for T10 and I shouldn't bother applying to any. But I decided to shoot my shot at a few top schools. I am from CA, so obviously I did all the UCs, but also Stanford and Harvard (I didn't want to end up on the East Coast, so I didn't apply to any others. I would rather go to a UC).
I interviewed at both Stanford and Harvard (as well as UCLA, other top UCs) and have 3 acceptances in the T20 (2 in T10). All of my acceptances came from schools with an MCAT mean higher than my score. I don't mean to post this to brag AT ALL, but I wanted to give you a bit of hope. Your narrative is really really important in this process, and I fully believe it was my unique story/interests that helped me. If you have a unique story and make your narrative stand out I don't believe your MCAT will hold you back, especially with your GPA.
It's important to apply broadly, and I did as well. I'm not recommending that you limit the number of schools you apply to and I think all the suggestions above are great. But throw in a few apps to top schools if you have the money. It's worth a shot. If you need any help with essays PM me, I'd be more than happy to chat further about my application cycle as well. I was SO defeated about my MCAT, and I want to provide perspective to others to show that it is not everything. Best of luck to you!
EDIT: Before people make assumptions, I had none of the ECs mentioned in m1redsox's post above. I just did a lot of work with a population that I'm passionate about and some research w one mid-author pub in a pretty low-impact journal. Nothing out of the ordinary, but I was passionate about what I did, which I think came through.
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This is amazing, thank you! I don't want to have my sights set too high, because I know there are plenty of people with better stats and experiences than me, but the way your cycle turned out is inspiring. I'm currently writing my PS and will start editing soon, so I will definitely reach out for your help. Thanks again, and congrats on the acceptances!
blackbird23
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Sounds great! And I think not getting your sights set too high is very important as well (mine certainly weren't) and it is very very important to know that this process is extremely challenging and it may not go in your favor. But don't underestimate yourself because of an MCAT score and focus on creating a unique narrative so schools see how amazing you are beyond your MCAT. Best of luck with writing!
