MD School List Help: 4.0 / 524, Weak/Average ECs, Interest in Medical Humanities

[Hartroc]

EDIT: I have adjusted my school list. After some research, I have become very interested in dual MD/Masters programs in medical humanities and/or bioethics.

Hey all! Honestly, I really don’t know where to apply. I got the MCAT score back and it was higher than I expected, so I’m cutting some of the low-tier schools I was planning on. I haven’t started TMDSAS but I'm going try now, even though I’m late. In any case, I want to make sure that I don’t apply to too many reach schools, since my ECs are weak-medium at best.

Edit: I suppose I'm looking for suggestions for mid-tier schools to apply to, as well as some high-tier schools that I wouldn't be rejected from offhand due to weak research/clinical. If they emphasize or have a program relating to medical humanities, I think I can make a pretty strong case for myself there.

cGPA/sGPA: 4.0, 4.0
MCAT: 524
State of Residence: Utah (I came here for school; I grew up in Hawaii, North Carolina, Japan)
Ethnicity and/or race: White
Undergraduate institution: Brigham Young University; Major: English; Minor: Korean
Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer):

• 150 hours (by matriculation, 70 currently) in the in-patient physical therapy clinic of the Utah state psychiatric hospital. I take patients’ measurements and help them with exercise routines. Patients ages range from 8 to 80+, with similarly varied degrees of mental stability. 1.5 year span, 2-ish hours a week during semesters, though it was flexible based on my workload.
• Starting hospice service this summer. Unfortunately, since I haven’t begun it yet, it won’t make it onto my primary, but could for secondaries or update letter. Anticipating 40-ish hours by matriculation.

Research experience and productivity

• Basic research in a synaptic plasticity and PTSD physiology/neuroscience lab. Will have ~200 hours by matriculation, but currently have only 30 since I joined recently. Good thing AMCAS accepts future hours. I run behavioral experiments and collect data in the animal behavior lab group. No posters or publications yet.

Shadowing experience and specialties represented

• 42 hours so far across family practice (8 hrs), neonatology (8 hrs), orthopedic surgery (24 hrs), general surgery (8 hrs).

Non-clinical volunteering

• 200+ hours as a trained crisis counselor with Crisis Text Line (almost two years span, 2-4 hours a week but had a period where I didn’t do it).
• 300+ hours of various projects over 2 years as missionary in South Korea. Taught free English classes, served food at nursing homes, picked up trash on roads, visited daycares for disabled young adults, worked on farms, etc.

Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)

• Medical Humanities Club. Helped cofound, 2 years in presidency. I’m an English major and wanted to connect that to medicine. I help with advertising, recruiting, and finding and coordinating with various guest speakers (doctors, nurses, professors, SLPs, etc.), as well as planning and leading group discussions on medical ethics, art, literature, history, etc. Usually between 8–20 regular attendees at meetings.
• Writing consultant at research and writing center (RWC), beginning with a semester-long academic internship. Will have around 500–600 hours by matriculation. Already had 250+ consultations helping undergrads, grad students, community members, etc. with all kinds of writing projects. Presented with RWC supervisor at regional writing center conference. Did community outreach in the form of helping teach resume-writing workshop at local middle school. Currently a research assistant, will be an author on a paper why students choose to use online services over in-person (will get published in an official writing center or education journal—not super prestigious, but I’ll take it haha).
• Missionary for LDS church in Seoul, Korea (2 years). Mostly consisted of religious proselytizing, with additional community service. Tons of unique cultural exposure, language learning, diversity experience. Lots of leadership as well: trained new missionaries, supervised and trained groups of 14 and later 30 missionaries.
• Editor for an undergraduate literary criticism journal. 4 semesters, worked with one author/paper per semester. Helped them strengthen arguments, copyedit, and publish.
• Two presentations of humanities research papers at university English symposiums.
• Studied abroad in the United Kingdom (2 months), focused on literary history and social science in a European context.
• A few early, menial college jobs that I don’t mention in my application (should I?). We’re talking “sandwich artist” at Subway, on-campus custodial, etc.
• Discussion Club (don’t want to share name here): Started as a community-building project for an English class, but outlasted it. Ended up as an unofficial (not through school) club with over 50 members. As host, I choose, research, and present a topic, then ask thought/debate questions and moderate the resulting dialogue.

Relevant honors or awards

• Outstanding non-major in biochemistry (from school’s chem department)
• Full + 1.3x tuition scholarships for “academics & service,” three years.
• Dean’s list, all years.
• Eagle Scout Award, from Boy Scouts of America senior year of high school (I know that high school activities are generally frowned on, but this is one that I’m proud of that I know is well-regarded, at least anecdotally).

Letters of Recommendation:

• 2 science professors (one is PI, but both are still likely only medium-strong), English professor (very strong), writing center job supervisor (very strong), shadowed DO (medium).

Schools:

1. University of Utah
2. Columbia (MD/MS in bioethics and narrative medicine)
3. Northwestern (MD/MA in medhum and bioethics)
4. Rochester (MD/MS in medhum)
5. U of Chicago
6. Brown (medhum and ethics scholarly concentration)
7. Stanford (biomedical ethics and medhum scholarly concentration)
8. Washington U
9. UNC
10. Duke (3rd year medhum program, MD/MA in bioethics and science policy)
11. Baylor
12. Mt. Sinai (medhum scholars independent track)
13. NYU (masters scholars program in humanistic medicine)
14. Case Western (MD/MA in bioethics and medhum)
15. Kaiser
16. Pittsburgh (humanities, ethics, and palliative care scholarly concentration)
17. Vanderbilt
18. Ohio State U
19. U of Michigan (medhum, ethics "paths of excellence")
20. Perelman (MD/Masters in bioethics combined program)
21. Hofstra ("humanities in medicine" program)
22. U of Virginia
23. Johns Hopkins (scholarly concentrations: ethics & the art of medicine, history of medicine; master of bioethics dual degree)
24. Quinnipiac (concentration/capstones: narrative medicine, medhum)
25. Boston
26. U of Cincinnati
27. Albert Einstein (5-year MD/MS in bioethics)
28. McGovern (scholarly concentration: medhum)
29. UT Medical Branch Galveston (MD with distinction in medhum)
30. UT San Antonio
31. Texas A&M

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[Faha]

You could add these schools:
Washington University
Mount Sinai
NYU
Case Western
Pittsburgh
Mayo

 

[Moko]

General thoughts:
- Your clinical and research experience are both very low. Future hours mean almost nothing as post-submission plans change so frequently. Still keep doing them though so they can be used in updates if needed, or in the event that you find yourself needing to reapply next year (though you will probably still be accepted somewhere based on the strengths in the other parts of your application).
- Missionary work can be a controversial subject. Just something to be mindful of when describing these experiences.
- You should absolutely include these "menial" college jobs. They're looked upon positively in the admissions process.

 

[TempuraOreos]

The good thing is that if you do a bit more searching tons of top schools have medical humanities opportunities so there's that.

Schools who's medical humanities programs that I liked which might interest you.

UMich
Hopkins
UCSF

Yes, apply Texas schools but I think with your app;you might be able to be choosey about which ones. During my cycle, I met tons of LDS kids at my Texas interviews so don't think you'll have a lot of issues. Also, McGovern, UTMB, and UTSA had pretty solid medical humanities programs so you can look into those.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hey all! Honestly, I really don’t know where to apply. I just got the MCAT score back yesterday and it was way higher than I expected, so I’m cutting a bunch of schools I had planned on because I’ll likely get yield protected. I haven’t started TMDSAS but I'm going try now, even though I’m late. In any case, I want to make sure that I don’t apply to too many reach schools, since I think my ECs are fine but nothing spectacular for the most part. What are some good middle-tier schools that look like they might fit my application? Any that emphasize stats over ECs? Should I bother applying for any lower tier schools? Any top schools I should avoid since my research is nothing special?

cGPA/sGPA: 4.0, 4.0
MCAT: 524
State of Residence: Utah (I came here for school; I grew up in Hawaii, North Carolina, Japan)
Ethnicity and/or race: White
Undergraduate institution: Brigham Young University; Major: English; Minor: Korean
Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer):

• 150 hours (by matriculation, 70 currently) in the in-patient physical therapy clinic of the Utah state psychiatric hospital. I take patients’ measurements and help them with exercise routines. Patients ages range from 8 to 80+, with similarly varied degrees of mental stability. 1.5 year span, 2-ish hours a week during semesters, though it was flexible based on my workload.
• Starting hospice service this summer. Unfortunately, since I haven’t begun it yet, it won’t make it onto my primary, but could for secondaries or update letter. Anticipating 40-ish hours by matriculation.

Research experience and productivity

• Basic research in a synaptic plasticity and PTSD physiology/neuroscience lab. Will have ~200 hours by matriculation, but currently have only 30 since I joined recently. Good thing AMCAS accepts future hours. I run behavioral experiments and collect data in the animal behavior lab group. No posters or publications yet.

Shadowing experience and specialties represented

• 42 hours so far across family practice (8 hrs), neonatology (8 hrs), orthopedic surgery (24 hrs), general surgery (8 hrs).

Non-clinical volunteering

• 200+ hours as a trained crisis counselor with Crisis Text Line (almost two years span, 2-4 hours a week but had a period where I didn’t do it).
• 300+ hours of various projects over 2 years as missionary in South Korea. Taught free English classes, served food at nursing homes, picked up trash on roads, visited daycares for disabled young adults, worked on farms, etc.

Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)

• Medical Humanities Club. Helped cofound, 2 years in presidency. I’m an English major and wanted to connect that to medicine. I help with advertising, recruiting, and finding and coordinating with various guest speakers (doctors, nurses, professors, SLPs, etc.), as well as planning and leading group discussions on medical ethics, art, literature, history, etc. Usually between 8–20 regular attendees at meetings.
• Writing consultant at research and writing center (RWC), beginning with a semester-long academic internship. Will have around 500–600 hours by matriculation. Already had 250+ consultations helping undergrads, grad students, community members, etc. with all kinds of writing projects. Presented with RWC supervisor at regional writing center conference. Did community outreach in the form of helping teach resume-writing workshop at local middle school. Currently a research assistant, will be an author on a paper why students choose to use online services over in-person (will get published in an official writing center or education journal—not super prestigious, but I’ll take it haha).
• Missionary for LDS church in Seoul, Korea (2 years). Mostly consisted of religious proselytizing, with additional community service. Tons of unique cultural exposure, language learning, diversity experience. Lots of leadership as well: trained new missionaries, supervised and trained groups of 14 and later 30 missionaries.
• Editor for an undergraduate literary criticism journal. 4 semesters, worked with one author/paper per semester. Helped them strengthen arguments, copyedit, and publish.
• Two presentations of humanities research papers at university English symposiums.
• Studied abroad in the United Kingdom (2 months), focused on literary history and social science in a European context.
• A few early, menial college jobs that I don’t mention in my application (should I?). We’re talking “sandwich artist” at Subway, on-campus custodial, etc.
• Discussion Club (don’t want to share name here): Started as a community-building project for an English class, but outlasted it. Ended up as an unofficial (not through school) club with over 50 members. As host, I choose, research, and present a topic, then ask thought/debate questions and moderate the resulting dialogue.

Relevant honors or awards

• Outstanding non-major in biochemistry (from school’s chem department)
• Full + 1.3x tuition scholarships for “academics & service,” three years.
• Dean’s list, all years.
• Eagle Scout Award, from Boy Scouts of America senior year of high school (I know that high school activities are generally frowned on, but this is one that I’m proud of that I know is well-regarded, at least anecdotally).

Letters of Recommendation:

• 2 science professors (one is PI, but both are still likely only medium-strong), English professor (very strong), writing center job supervisor (very strong), shadowed DO (medium).

Schools:

Some I already know for sure that I'm interested in:

• University of Utah (in-state)
• Baylor
• All (?) TMDSAS schools
• UNC
• Duke

I'm really interested in medical humanities and narrative medicine. Since I have a background in (or at least the foundation for) them, the peeps on reddit have suggested that I add the following, all of which I'm attracted to.

• Columbia
• UChicago
• Brown
• Northwestern
• Rochester
• Stanford

Other suggestions? Any help and comments appreciated.

Thanks!

Why do you want to apply to Texas schools given that you're a Utah resident?

 

[Hartroc]

General thoughts:
- Your clinical and research experience are both very low. Future hours mean almost nothing as post-submission plans change so frequently. Still keep doing them though so they can be used in updates if needed, or in the event that you find yourself needing to reapply next year (though you will probably still be accepted somewhere based on the strengths in the other parts of your application).
- Missionary work can be a controversial subject. Just something to be mindful of when describing these experiences.
- You should absolutely include these "menial" college jobs. They're looked upon positively in the admissions process.

Thank you for the feedback! I have arranged my schedule so that I will be able to continue with the clinical and research hours, so I know I'll get the future ones barring extenuating circumstances. I actually didn't decide I wanted to do medical school until I was a year into my undergraduate, and even then I didn't really do the research about what was required until months later, and by that time it was too late to get competitive hours in most things. If I could go back in time, I would definitely do fewer things more diligently, and also be a bit less neurotic about grades--I think I spent more time studying than I needed to. I'm glad how it worked out though, everything I have done has been valuable and growth-promoting.

As for the mission, I've gotten some good tips and feedback on that section so I feel pretty confident that I can talk about it in a way that isn't controversial or overtly religious. Also, I already list 14 activities in AMCAS, so that was part of the reason I was hesitant to include yet another experience in the college jobs (especially since it wasn't particularly formative), but I'll see what I can whip up for it.

Also, since my clinical and research experience is so lacking, do you think I should actually consider taking a gap year to strengthen those parts of my application? I know they're weak, but I was hoping to find somewhere that might overlook them.

The good thing is that if you do a bit more searching tons of top schools have medical humanities opportunities so there's that.

Schools who's medical humanities programs that I liked which might interest you.

UMich
Hopkins
UCSF

Yes, apply Texas schools but I think with your app;you might be able to be choosey about which ones. During my cycle, I met tons of LDS kids at my Texas interviews so don't think you'll have a lot of issues. Also, McGovern, UTMB, and UTSA had pretty solid medical humanities programs so you can look into those.

Thanks! That will be helpful.

Why do you want to apply to Texas schools given that you're a Utah resident?

Good question! Some of the Texas schools are reasonably close to my wife's immediate family, who live in Louisiana. We would like to be close to them if possible. We also have lots of extended family scattered across Texas. And of course Texas is affordable compared to others places both in tuition and cost of living.

 

[Hartroc]

Actually, I'm not sure whether this is on the table for my me (I would need to talk to my wife), but would you recommend taking a gap year to beef up some of those extracurriculars? I know the high stats and low ECs make me look pretty lopsided, but ECs are probably the easiest thing to improve since all it takes is time commitment.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you for the feedback! I have arranged my schedule so that I will be able to continue with the clinical and research hours, so I know I'll get the future ones barring extenuating circumstances. I actually didn't decide I wanted to do medical school until I was a year into my undergraduate, and even then I didn't really do the research about what was required until months later, and by that time it was too late to get competitive hours in most things. If I could go back in time, I would definitely do fewer things more diligently, and also be a bit less neurotic about grades--I think I spent more time studying than I needed to. I'm glad how it worked out though, everything I have done has been valuable and growth-promoting.

As for the mission, I've gotten some good tips and feedback on that section so I feel pretty confident that I can talk about it in a way that isn't controversial or overtly religious. Also, I already list 14 activities in AMCAS, so that was part of the reason I was hesitant to include yet another experience in the college jobs (especially since it wasn't particularly formative), but I'll see what I can whip up for it.

Also, since my clinical and research experience is so lacking, do you think I should actually consider taking a gap year to strengthen those parts of my application? I know they're weak, but I was hoping to find somewhere that might overlook them.




Thanks! That will be helpful.



Good question! Some of the Texas schools are reasonably close to my wife's immediate family, who live in Louisiana. We would like to be close to them if possible. We also have lots of extended family scattered across Texas. And of course Texas is affordable compared to others places both in tuition and cost of living.

You're probably already aware that the public Texas medical schools, and even some private ones like Baylor, are heavily skewed toward instate applicants.

Your stats point you toward UT-Southwestern and Baylor but those schools may want more research than what you've shown so far.

 

[Hartroc]

You're probably already aware that the public Texas medical schools, and even some private ones like Baylor, are heavily skewed toward instate applicants.

Your stats point you toward UT-Southwestern and Baylor but those schools may want more research than what you've shown so far.

Yeah, I figured so. We would really like to be in that area though, so I think I still do want to apply anywhere I have a chance. Especially since the TMDSAS primary isn't too horribly expensive.

 

[Hartroc]

Any other recommendations?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Apply to all medical schools with a median MCAT at or above 519.

Consider taking 1 gap year to boost clinical volunteering and research.

Are you applying to Tulane given its proximity to family?

 

[Hartroc]

Thanks for the recommendations. We're not planning on applying to Tulane, because even though we want to be reasonably close to family, my wife really does not want to live in New Orleans. Texas would be better for us, so we're going for it despite the uphill battle for out-of-state applicants. After doing a bit of research, I've adjusted my school list to reflect ones I think would fit better. I'm now interested in programs with dual MD/MA or MD/MS programs in medical humanities and/or biomedical ethics. Any comments on the updated list? Should I add some more "middle-tier" schools? I realize this is pretty top-heavy for someone with weak research/clinical hours. These are in no particular order.

1. University of Utah
2. Columbia (MD/MS in bioethics and narrative medicine)
3. Northwestern (MD/MA in medhum and bioethics)
4. Rochester (MD/MS in medhum)
5. U of Chicago
6. Brown (medhum and ethics scholarly concentration)
7. Stanford (biomedical ethics and medhum scholarly concentration)
8. Washington U
9. UNC
10. Duke (3rd year medhum program, MD/MA in bioethics and science policy)
11. Baylor
12. Mt. Sinai (medhum scholars independent track)
13. NYU (masters scholars program in humanistic medicine)
14. Case Western (MD/MA in bioethics and medhum)
15. Kaiser
16. Pittsburgh (humanities, ethics, and palliative care scholarly concentration)
17. Vanderbilt
18. Ohio State U
19. U of Michigan (medhum, ethics "paths of excellence")
20. Perelman (MD/Masters in bioethics combined program)
21. Hofstra ("humanities in medicine" program)
22. U of Virginia
23. Johns Hopkins (scholarly concentrations: ethics & the art of medicine, history of medicine; master of bioethics dual degree)
24. Quinnipiac (concentration/capstones: narrative medicine, medhum)
25. Boston
26. U of Cincinnati
27. Albert Einstein (5-year MD/MS in bioethics)
28. McGovern (scholarly concentration: medhum)
29. UT Medical Branch Galveston (MD with distinction in medhum)
30. UT San Antonio
31. Texas A&M

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thanks for the recommendations. We're not planning on applying to Tulane, because even though we want to be reasonably close to family, my wife really does not want to live in New Orleans. Texas would be better for us, so we're going for it despite the uphill battle for out-of-state applicants. After doing a bit of research, I've adjusted my school list to reflect ones I think would fit better. I'm now interested in programs with dual MD/MA or MD/MS programs in medical humanities and/or biomedical ethics. Any comments on the updated list? Should I add some more "middle-tier" schools? I realize this is pretty top-heavy for someone with weak research/clinical hours. These are in no particular order.

1. University of Utah
2. Columbia (MD/MS in bioethics and narrative medicine)
3. Northwestern (MD/MA in medhum and bioethics)
4. Rochester (MD/MS in medhum)
5. U of Chicago
6. Brown (medhum and ethics scholarly concentration)
7. Stanford (biomedical ethics and medhum scholarly concentration)
8. Washington U
9. UNC
10. Duke (3rd year medhum program, MD/MA in bioethics and science policy)
11. Baylor
12. Mt. Sinai (medhum scholars independent track)
13. NYU (masters scholars program in humanistic medicine)
14. Case Western (MD/MA in bioethics and medhum)
15. Kaiser
16. Pittsburgh (humanities, ethics, and palliative care scholarly concentration)
17. Vanderbilt
18. Ohio State U
19. U of Michigan (medhum, ethics "paths of excellence")
20. Perelman (MD/Masters in bioethics combined program)
21. Hofstra ("humanities in medicine" program)
22. U of Virginia
23. Johns Hopkins (scholarly concentrations: ethics & the art of medicine, history of medicine; master of bioethics dual degree)
24. Quinnipiac (concentration/capstones: narrative medicine, medhum)
25. Boston
26. U of Cincinnati
27. Albert Einstein (5-year MD/MS in bioethics)
28. McGovern (scholarly concentration: medhum)
29. UT Medical Branch Galveston (MD with distinction in medhum)
30. UT San Antonio
31. Texas A&M

Baylor has a strong in house bioethics program. I'm not sure whether it leads to a dual degree or not but it's something you might want to investigate.

Some have posted here that McGovern holds it against applicants who don't apply to all Texas schools. See, e.g., post #7 in this thread:

Chances as IS Texas Applicant? High MCAT (524) Low GPA 3.49 w/ upward trend hoping to stay IS but also looking for OOS schools

Hi everyone, I submitted my TMDSAS application around 2 weeks ago and I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on what my chances are. I would like to stay in the Houston area so McGovern and Baylor are my first choices even though I know its a stretch. Basically I was a biomed engineer my first...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Perhaps @DokterMom can chime in.

You should add Yale. It's one of the schools with a median MCAT around 520. It also has a reputation for liking candidates who have something different interests than the normal premed.

Why not add Harvard?

Does your primary reflect an interest in medical humanities?

If you're planning to apply this cycle, you should do so ASAP.

 

[DokterMom]

FWIW there are actually a lot of Utah residents in Texas medical schools. With that kind of MCAT and GPA, I wouldn't be surprised if you got some OOS love in Texas. (Who are they going after ?)

 

[Hartroc]

Baylor has a strong in house bioethics program. I'm not sure whether it leads to a dual degree or not but it's something you might want to investigate.

Some have posted here that McGovern holds it against applicants who don't apply to all Texas schools. See, e.g., post #7 in this thread:

Chances as IS Texas Applicant? High MCAT (524) Low GPA 3.49 w/ upward trend hoping to stay IS but also looking for OOS schools

Hi everyone, I submitted my TMDSAS application around 2 weeks ago and I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on what my chances are. I would like to stay in the Houston area so McGovern and Baylor are my first choices even though I know its a stretch. Basically I was a biomed engineer my first...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Perhaps @DokterMom can chime in.

You should add Yale. It's one of the schools with a median MCAT around 520. It also has a reputation for liking candidates who have something different interests than the normal premed.

Why not add Harvard?

Does your primary reflect an interest in medical humanities?

If you're planning to apply this cycle, you should do so ASAP.

I submitted my AMCAS primary on June 29th and am waiting for it to be verified. Haven't submitted TMDSAS yet, but am aiming for the end of this week. I know it's late, but not too late that I wouldn't have a chance, right? The only schools I have officially submitted to so far are U of Utah, Baylor, and Columbia. I'm trying to finalize the list now so I can begin prewriting secondary essays. If I write them now, the turnaround once I start getting prompts will hopefully be no more than 2-3 days.

In my personal statement, I talk about my English major and how that contributed to my premedical experience, as well as my leadership in our MedHum club. I plan to elaborate even more in my secondaries. I'm registered to take bioethics and medical humanities classes at my undergrad this year, and I'm also going to bring up my sister. She received the controversial Ashley treatment when I was younger, which helped spark my interest in bioethics and medhum. I also just started volunteering with a hospice service, which didn't make it into the primary but could figure into my secondaries, and I would obviously bring it up in interviews. It looks like it will be a hands-on experience that also relates to some of the books I read in my spare time: Being Mortal, When Breath Becomes Air, That Good Night, Do No Harm, etc.

Thanks for the info on Baylor and McGovern. I will add Yale to my list. Honestly, I wasn't going to apply to Harvard mainly because I figured my ECs just weren't up to par and didn't want to waste the money. I suppose it can't hurt, though.