Schools for those for have old and horrible undergrad GPA's

[remi4301]

Well, found out today that I will not be attending Vet school this fall. 🙁 I think I'm going to change my game plan for the next application cycle. I know it's been mentioned before but I can't find the thread, what schools are good for applicants with low undergrad GPA's but have done well in post-bacc work? My undergrad is horrible, really horrible, but I graduated 10 years ago. I have since taken about 35 hours, mostly redoing prereqs and have a 3.94 in those courses. I also worked full-time as a vet assistant for 3 yrs so I have well over 3300 hours of experience, also was a equine farm manager/trainer for a couple of years. Anyone recommend schools that weigh more on experience, later coursework? I've heard Kansas and LSU, any others. Thanks! Trying to stay optimistic....

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[kernel]

Where did you apply this last cycle, if you don't mind me asking? Getting in anywhere where you are OOS is going to be tough; however I'd like to think that the fact that you practically aced your prereqs and that your poor grades are quite old gives you a decent shot.

Edit: I just checked your post history. It looks like you did apply to SGU. What about Ross?

 

[BlackDog17]

If you're not opposed to going International, I got into AVC with a horribly low GPA. My stats are posted in the successful applicants thread if you're interested in seeing them.

It sounds like you're doing well with retaking pre-reqs and getting good grades. I think if you focus on getting some more diverse experience you'll stand a good chance of getting into a U.S. school.

 

[Frozenshades]

Hm, I wonder if at this point you'll have to take more coursework to get into US schools, or at least some of them. Schools have different limits on when the prerequisite courses have to be completed before applying, I know I've seen within 10 years listed at some places.

 

[CanHardlyWait]

Yeah, I was thinking Ross as well. Or RVC, they have a 5 year program, I think mainly geared towards those without an undergrad degree, but possibly you could talk to their admissions people about whether you have a better chance applying to a longer program. Now that I think of it, Ross has something like that as well, I believe. Like a tester semester and if you pass, then you're accepted for admission.

As for OOS, VMRCVM accepts a huge number of OOS students. It's why I applied. I'm older/non trad and the administration seems pretty accommodating to that, and interested in increasing class diversity. Also, if you get an interview, everyone starts on an equal footing as competition for seats in the class. Only the interview score (its MMI) is considered for offers of admission. So if you can get an interview, they'll never look at your transcripts again. I'd give it a shot if you don't want to go international.

 

[503372]

You might want to consider international, 5 year programmes too like Glasgow and RVC. Did SGU say why they rejected you and how you can improve your application? Maybe you could take x amount of courses and apply again for the January class, which is less competitive. Seems like SGU has become more competitive this year with the introduction of the VMCAS application.

 

[Trilt]

Pretty sure Minnesota only looks at pre-req and last 45 GPAs. Don't know how they look at repeated courses though.

 

[wildcatj]

There are some schools that will let you excuse old grades if they are older than a certain amount. I think you can petition Mizzou if your course work is older than 5 years.

 

[Cypress]

I would recommend talking to the schools that didn't take you - you might be surprised about what they have to say - grades are definitely important but schools are also in the market for applicants that bring new and diverse qualities to their classes - maybe you could work on your personal statement to highlight these aspects of your application.

Shooting for a schools that take lower GPAs is a good route to explore - but ALL schools take a range of GPAs - you just need to figure out what about those people with the lower GPAs makes them stand out and get their foot in the door.

I am one of those with a lower GPA, an overall GPA of ~3.04 when I applied - took some work but I'm here now! 🙂 It can be done!

Get application reviews and see what the admission committees recommend

Good luck!

 

[psilovethomas]

Michigan State only uses last 45 GPA and prereq GPA
http://cvm.msu.edu/student-information/dvm-program-admissions/two-step-selection-process

 

[TooLove]

If you're not opposed to going International, I got into AVC with a horribly low GPA. My stats are posted in the successful applicants thread if you're interested in seeing them.

Ditto.

 

[wildowl]

WSU also has a tier system where if you score really well (avg > 75%) on the GRE or have a science GPA greater than 3.7 or GPA greater than 3.5, you'll be placed in Tier 1 where you are likely to get an interview. Illinois also seemed forgiving of my lower GPA too for my initial academic evaluation, and it seems as though they take improvement into account.

 

[remi4301]

You might want to consider international, 5 year programmes too like Glasgow and RVC. Did SGU say why they rejected you and how you can improve your application? Maybe you could take x amount of courses and apply again for the January class, which is less competitive. Seems like SGU has become more competitive this year with the introduction of the VMCAS application.

Yeah, they said my undergrad GPA was too low, though they were very impressed with my postbacc work (guess not enough). The frustrating part is that they were interviewing me for the "tester" semester, and if my undergrad grades were too low for them, why did they bother interviewing me? My interviewer told me he thought I'd do great in the program, so I think the interview went well. Just felt like they were stringing me along without ever intending to offer me a spot.
I think I'm gonna call some schools and get some advice, see if they'd recommend retaking a few more prereqs to have a solid prereq/last 45 hrs GPA or if I should take upper level classes. I'm gonna definitely look into the UK schools too. Blah! Thanks everyone!

 

[equineconstant]

There are some schools that will let you excuse old grades if they are older than a certain amount. I think you can petition Mizzou if your course work is older than 5 years.

This is what I was going to say. I think Florida(?) does this as well, where you can petition to exclude years-old grades.

 

[adams30]

University of Illinois has a system where they first look at your GPA and GRE scores and then if you make that minimum cut they look at your experience and then might offer an interview. The final decision for whether you are admitted or not is 75% experience and 25% interview. They like to see diversity in experience and LOTS of hours.

I also think that they will ignore classes taken 10 years ago. If you have pre-reqs though that are that old you would need to repeat them. Might want to double check with them on this

 

[kakurubird]

I think Iowa State also only looks at pre-req and last 45 GPA, but someone correct me if I'm remembering wrong.

 

[cs5910]

I think Iowa State also only looks at pre-req and last 45 GPA, but someone correct me if I'm remembering wrong.

Iowa State looks at science GPA as well.... And they are notorious for looking at the science GPA differently than any other school. For some reason, they lower your actual science GPA pretty significantly, when compared to the actual gpa. Not sure exactly how they calculate it.

 

[kakurubird]

Iowa State looks at science GPA as well.... And they are notorious for looking at the science GPA differently than any other school. For some reason, they lower your actual science GPA pretty significantly, when compared to the actual gpa. Not sure exactly how they calculate it.

think we're talking about the same thing here, I have my notes as pre-req, but they could call it science (I used the two pretty interchangeably in my spreadsheet even if they aren't always).
but, yes, definitely the lowest calculated GPA I have anywhere. if everyone's get lower for some reason, though, in comparison to others, shouldn't make a big difference, right?

 

[cs5910]

think we're talking about the same thing here, I have my notes as pre-req, but they could call it science (I used the two pretty interchangeably in my spreadsheet even if they aren't always).
but, yes, definitely the lowest calculated GPA I have anywhere. if everyone's get lower for some reason, though, in comparison to others, shouldn't make a big difference, right?

Whoops! I read through your original post too fast, we are talking about the same thing!! Its probably true that since everyone is lowered, that we are all in the same playing field, regardless! Unless you are someone with straight A's... I guess you can't lower that! Doesn't apply to me though!

 

[Trematode]

If you're not opposed to going International, I got into AVC with a horribly low GPA. My stats are posted in the successful applicants thread if you're interested in seeing them.

It sounds like you're doing well with retaking pre-reqs and getting good grades. I think if you focus on getting some more diverse experience you'll stand a good chance of getting into a U.S. school.

I snuck a peek at your post in the Successful Applicants thread because I am always curious what the pre-req average is for accepted students. You didn't include that information haha, unless you included but labeled it as your GPA.

One of the main reasons why low GPAers have a shot with AVC is because they only look at your twenty pre-req courses. If you do sparkling in them and not so well in anything else, you're set to go. If you do poorly in them, post-bac work and retaking courses is not considered at all.

Also, the pre-req courses expire after 6 years so you have to retake them and/or submit a letter explaining why you haven't.

AVC picks interview applicants based on grades and GPA alone. So the other experiences don't come into play unless you pass that first hurdle.

 

[BlackDog17]

I snuck a peek at your post in the Successful Applicants thread because I am always curious what the pre-req average is for accepted students. You didn't include that information haha, unless you included but labeled it as your GPA.

One of the main reasons why low GPAers have a shot with AVC is because they only look at your twenty pre-req courses. If you do sparkling in them and not so well in anything else, you're set to go. If you do poorly in them, post-bac work and retaking courses is not considered at all.

Also, the pre-req courses expire after 6 years so you have to retake them and/or submit a letter explaining why you haven't.

AVC picks interview applicants based on grades and GPA alone. So the other experiences don't come into play unless you pass that first hurdle.

I didn't know what my pre-req GPA was off the top of my head, and I was lazy so I didn't bother to calculate it to include in the post. If you're interested I can go through and calculate it and PM it to you.

AVC counts slightly different pre-reqs than other schools though, so I think that helped me a lot. They don't seem to put as much weight on science pre-reqs as other schools do, instead they also consider things like English, Humanities, electives, etc. I think that probably boosted my pre-req GPA a lot. I didn't know they don't consider retakes though! That means my math and chem pre-req grades were probably horrific. I'm guessing the fact that I did really well in my English courses and electives made up for it.

Honestly though, I think I was probably pretty low down on the ranked list. I was offered one of the last interview slots, so I probably got an invite that other people had already declined. But I had a lot of good experience and my interview went really well, and I'm betting that's what got me in. Plus being an international student helps - I think I was competing against 200+ other internationals instead of competing against 1000+ other OOS applicants at the U.S. schools.

That's another good point for the OP: If you do get offered an interview, do everything in your power to knock that sucker out of the park. The interview is your one and only chance to show the adcom that there's more to you than just a GPA. If you can make a really strong impression, it can really change the way they view your application!

 

[Trematode]

In a previous AVC post, the approximate minimum pre-req average to get an interview has been speculated for at least the four provinces if I remember correctly. It fluctuates depending on the applicant pool, but depending on where you are applying from, it may be not be worth applying if your pre-req average is lower than the minimum.

It tends to fluctuate in PEI and New Brunswick. The lowest pre-req average of a successful applicant was a PEI resident with a 77.4 average. It tends to stay stable in Nova Scotia at around an 83 pre-req average for an interview with an average GRE score.

I'm assuming that it fluctuates quite a bit with internationals.

I just wanted to point that out. I know that in my case, a low pre-req average has me doomed to ever get an interview.

It's great that AVC has a unique mash of courses for their requirements.... but if you're like me and flounder badly in a certain area, it could mean the difference between an interview or rejection.

I just wanted to point that out 🙂

It's worth looking up the requirements and plugging some numbers to give you an idea of where you may stand.

 

[bbeventer]

Illinois allows you to petition to excuse courses taken over I think 6 years old.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Surprisingly Penn can be open to lower GPAs if you have something else interesting about you.. but they are kind of inscrutable in some ways.

 

[LetItSnow]

Pretty sure Minnesota only looks at pre-req and last 45 GPAs. Don't know how they look at repeated courses though.

I'm not sure what their policy technically is, but when confronted with my 15-years-earlier transcripts versus my last-couple-years transcripts, the only things they took from the really old transcripts were pre-reqs that weren't met more recently.

For instance, they took my recent A's in chem rather than my C's from 15 years ago.

That said, I don't know how they'd handle it if your two grades for the same class were both very recent.

But yes, MN uses pre-req and last 45.

 

[Escalla]

For UMN, your math/science prereq's need to be within 10 years:

Q: Is there an expiration date on coursework?
A: Yes, required science and math courses need to be taken within ten years of application. For this current admission cycle (fall 2014), required science and math courses taken prior to Fall 2003 will not be considered for admission. There is no expiration on courses used in meeting the English or liberal education requirements.

I remember they had a policy regarding re-takes where they would average the two grades unless they were taken x years apart and then they would take the more current grade. I cannot remember the number of years though or if it has since been revised. They changed a lot of things over the last 2 years.

 

[LetItSnow]

For UMN, your prereq's need to be within 10 years:

That should be clarified to be specific to science and math pre-reqs. They don't care how old your non-science/math classes are.

What have they changed over the last 2 years? Definitely some things, but nothing terribly substantive of which I'm aware, but admittedly it's not like I go check the admissions page often. But I am involved in giving tours and whatnot so I tend to be at least somewhat up on it.

 

[that redhead]

One of the main reasons why low GPAers have a shot with AVC is because they only look at your twenty pre-req courses. If you do sparkling in them and not so well in anything else, you're set to go. If you do poorly in them, post-bac work and retaking courses is not considered at all.

Yep, this is what helped me.

If you take a higher level version of a course that grade will "replace" the lower level course. So my gen chem II grade "replaced" my gen chem I grade; same for my organic chem grades.

 

[jhupup]

Surprisingly Penn can be open to lower GPAs if you have something else interesting about you.. but they are kind of inscrutable in some ways.

Agreed, I got into Penn with a scholarship on a 3.05 undergrad gpa. Did better in grad school but that still only brought my cumulative gpa up to 3.30. My pre-req/science gpa was definitely below a 3.0. I would say if you're going to do post-bacc or graduate work, try and go for higher level science courses to prove that you can handle it, since that's a huge portion of vet school. My masters was in biochemistry & molecular biology.

 

[RinTinTin]

I'm not sure what their policy technically is, but when confronted with my 15-years-earlier transcripts versus my last-couple-years transcripts, the only things they took from the really old transcripts were pre-reqs that weren't met more recently.

For instance, they took my recent A's in chem rather than my C's from 15 years ago.

That said, I don't know how they'd handle it if your two grades for the same class were both very recent.

But yes, MN uses pre-req and last 45.

I know for undergrad UMN only counts your most recent grade in a course towards your GPA, so it sounds like the vet school might do it the same way.

 

[Escalla]

That should be clarified to be specific to science and math pre-reqs. They don't care how old your non-science/math classes are.

What have they changed over the last 2 years? Definitely some things, but nothing terribly substantive of which I'm aware, but admittedly it's not like I go check the admissions page often. But I am involved in giving tours and whatnot so I tend to be at least somewhat up on it.

Sorry, I had noticed that and had edited my post probably at the same time you posted this. Thanks for catching that though. 👍

The weighting of last 45 GPA/prereq GPA/GRE has changed to equal thirds. Previously, prereqs were weighted slightly less. However, the other changes probably seem bigger to me than to others since they involve Canadians. Having Canadian transcripts evaluated through an educational service (never had to do that previously...) and the discontinued reciprocity with Manitoba. That's all changed since I applied in 2011.

 

[Escalla]

I know for undergrad UMN only counts your most recent grade in a course towards your GPA, so it sounds like the vet school might do it the same way.

Which UG campus did you attend? That wasn't the case at UMC. Though the only courses I re-took were independent study classes for the purpose of being a TA or starting one of our OTTBs. I had As in all of them, but they only counted the first one.

Just curious to see if things are really that different between campuses.