i'm just wonderin, which undergrad schools have the most least weeding out? now, i'm not debating the merits of going to a top school, or how it affects admission, simply which undergrad schools end up with a lot of people starting out as pre-meds and ending up as something else due to the competition
Schools with most/least weed out
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ok, here are some schools that i'm thinkin bout. although 90% of my decision will be based on if i like the school...its something i thought i should at least know when considering undergrad
brown
duke
dartmouth
columbia
rice
upenn
cornell
carnegie mellon
Georgetown
brown
duke
dartmouth
columbia
rice
upenn
cornell
carnegie mellon
Georgetown
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Hi!
I know this is the last thing you want to hear, and you've probably heard it a lot before, but I would say most pre-meds select themselves out. Once you get to college there are so many new interesting things to study that a lot of people get hooked on another interest (no matter how dead-set they are on medicine to begin with). Plus, as you go through the years, you wonder again and again if it's worth all the effort. A lot of profs told us the same thing my frosh year, and I got so mad at them for doubting/discouraging my class, but it wound up being true. So with that in mind, you definitely have the right idea about picking the school you feel most comfortable in. When you go on your interviews or ask questions, you can probably find the answer to the question yourself. One good thing to ask is if the classes generally grade according to a curve or your actual grade. When teachers grade according to a curve, it sucks because you're always competing against other really smart people, making a higher "weed out" course rate because a quota of people will have to get a c or less. Good luck with your decision!
I know this is the last thing you want to hear, and you've probably heard it a lot before, but I would say most pre-meds select themselves out. Once you get to college there are so many new interesting things to study that a lot of people get hooked on another interest (no matter how dead-set they are on medicine to begin with). Plus, as you go through the years, you wonder again and again if it's worth all the effort. A lot of profs told us the same thing my frosh year, and I got so mad at them for doubting/discouraging my class, but it wound up being true. So with that in mind, you definitely have the right idea about picking the school you feel most comfortable in. When you go on your interviews or ask questions, you can probably find the answer to the question yourself. One good thing to ask is if the classes generally grade according to a curve or your actual grade. When teachers grade according to a curve, it sucks because you're always competing against other really smart people, making a higher "weed out" course rate because a quota of people will have to get a c or less. Good luck with your decision!
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if you are looking for some numbers, i can only speak for my school (wash u) but it is something like 600 start out pre-med and about 150-200 actually end up applying senior year or soon thereafter.
some of these are capable of doing the work but decide there are other things they would rather do; others would like to be pre-med but just do not do well enough.
a significant fraction also take the first few pre-med requirements and end up finishing the rest over summers when the class is a little bit easier (because you are only taking one at a time) or at another university.
some of these are capable of doing the work but decide there are other things they would rather do; others would like to be pre-med but just do not do well enough.
a significant fraction also take the first few pre-med requirements and end up finishing the rest over summers when the class is a little bit easier (because you are only taking one at a time) or at another university.
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Hi,
I agree that most people at the top institutions self-select themselves out of the pool. In most of the cases I know, this has nothing to do with not being able to handle the workload of premed. Part of it has to do with not wanting to take courses with "premed types." Others find something else that excites them more. Being premed at my undergrad means nothing special. No one here assumes you are smart because you are premed, in fact, I know many people who assume that if you are premed you couldn't cut it as a hard science person. So even though only a quater or so of the people that come in here premed still say they are after junior year, that doesn't really mean much. If you really want to go to medical school, and you are thinking of attending these schools, I would bet you won't get weeded out unless you want to be =)
Good luck and Happy Holidays!
I agree that most people at the top institutions self-select themselves out of the pool. In most of the cases I know, this has nothing to do with not being able to handle the workload of premed. Part of it has to do with not wanting to take courses with "premed types." Others find something else that excites them more. Being premed at my undergrad means nothing special. No one here assumes you are smart because you are premed, in fact, I know many people who assume that if you are premed you couldn't cut it as a hard science person. So even though only a quater or so of the people that come in here premed still say they are after junior year, that doesn't really mean much. If you really want to go to medical school, and you are thinking of attending these schools, I would bet you won't get weeded out unless you want to be =)
Good luck and Happy Holidays!
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i can only speak for Dartmouth, but i know that people say up here that about half the class starts out premed (~500), which may be kind of a high estimate, but by the time the application process starts, i believe its maybe around 100 or less per class. i agree with the others though, premeds weed themselves out. some don't understand what becoming and actually being a doctor entails when they arrive at college, and just decide its not for them, and others, like merlin and abw said, find something more interesting. i know people who were premed, then went on to do corporate finance, and others who changed their minds 10 times while at school. some do bio research and do clinical internships in hospitals and then realize its just not for them.i don't think the school will matter in that respect, i'm sure all the premed sciences at the schools you mentioned are tough. if your heart is in it to become a physician, then the hard coursework won't deter you from following that path. we've all gone through it, no matter which school we went to.
if you have any particular questions about Dartmouth though, feel free to PM me!
if you have any particular questions about Dartmouth though, feel free to PM me!
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I can only speak for my school, UCLA, which isn't on your list. However, I think that what I have to say might be helpful. When I started the chemistry series as a freshman, there were two classes with 300 people in each of them. This class was called Chem. 14A. By the time I got to Chem. 14D, there was only one class offered with 200 people in it. So, somewhere between 14A and 14D, 400 people got weeded out, either with a bad grade or because they couldn't handle it.
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Just my 2cents but I think you should really think about a school with a wide range of opportunities and a strong liberal arts education ...You will get plenty of science if you are a science major and then go to med school it is also important (in general and for admissions) to be well rounded academically. I went to the University of Chicago which isn't on your list either but I feel like I graduated with a very wide and diverse transcript as well as great science and I think this combination has really helped me in the admissions process....
Good Luck 🙂
Good Luck 🙂
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And I can only speak for University of Pennsylvania, but I'd have to echo other's sentiments. I remember talking to my peer advisor my first semester, and he was saying how his two buddies in intro bio got C's and are now pre-law. He was telling us to start off strong cuz we would be happier for it later. I think once you get a few bad grades it's very easy to fall into the trend of not fixing the problem, so instead of risking more bad grades, people look for something else. There is lots of weeding out, but that is just a function of the science mean's being set at a C+/C and that a good %age of people will be receiving that grade--just by virtue of the curve.
K
Katie
I can speak for a less prestigious but underrated school, The University of Maryland in College Park. I think that there definitely is weed-out, but it's pretty similar to other schools, no more, no less. I agree with Short Stuff, try and pick the school that best fits you; it's important to be in an environment where you can feel at home and do your best. Prestige plays something of a factor, but in a lot of cases, you can't go wrong with state schools (depending on your state of residence). UCLA, UC Berkeley, UCSD, University of Washington, University of Virginia, University of Michigan, UT-Austin, Penn State, UNC-Chapel Hill, and Maryland, to name a few, are all solid state school.
thanx for the info, i'd like to hear about columbia, brown and georgetown specifically...so if anyone went there, i'd like some help
i'm surprised for some of these figures...dartmouth only 20% apply...upenn grades on a C curve. i'm determined to become a doctor, but i figured that these smaller schools would have less competition, but it doesnt seem true. it'd be nice if i wasnt facing like 1% chances, but i guess it comes with the profession
thanx
i'm surprised for some of these figures...dartmouth only 20% apply...upenn grades on a C curve. i'm determined to become a doctor, but i figured that these smaller schools would have less competition, but it doesnt seem true. it'd be nice if i wasnt facing like 1% chances, but i guess it comes with the profession
thanx
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I go to an Ivy that isn't on your list (Princeton), but I want to offer my advice.
Do not be deterred by what people feel is "weed out." The people who decide not to become a doctor are often those who find that they are not interested in science anymore. Hence, they do not study and do poorly on exams. They finish the introductory chemistry and never move on to orgo because they have no interest in continuing. Very few people at these top schools do not have the brain power to excel as a doctor. Becoming a doctor, however, requires a passion not only for the science, but also for the profession -- helping people through clinical care.
Do not be scared that you won't make it at a top school. Do not go to a state school just because you think you'll get all A's and you're afraid to fail. You will not fail if you work hard. I would always want to be in the best learning environment -- a place where everyone has a passion for learning and other passions beyond academics. This brings the best out of you. The experience of college is more than getting As. And if you work hard and are dedicated to doing well, you will get those As.
I can also attest to the importance of a prestigious name to getting into med schools. I know people try to think that it doesn't matter, but it definitely does make a difference. Of course, people from a variety of schools get into top med schools (or any med school for that matter). However, the prestige of the undergrad institution is also important. I have been fortunate to get into a few top 20 schools already, and I flubbed an MCAT section (7 verbal). I can assure you that I would not have gotten into one of these schools if I had not gotten As at Princeton. If it had only been As at my state school, I would not have been given this opportunity. At Princeton, my top grades are top against the brightest (for the most part) students in the nation. They all work hard and are smart. At a state school, however, some students work hard, but it is certainly not 100% of the class -- which is the case at Princeton (well, not 100% but close to it)
Therefore, do not choose a school based on a fear of failure. If you want to succeed, you will.
Do not be deterred by what people feel is "weed out." The people who decide not to become a doctor are often those who find that they are not interested in science anymore. Hence, they do not study and do poorly on exams. They finish the introductory chemistry and never move on to orgo because they have no interest in continuing. Very few people at these top schools do not have the brain power to excel as a doctor. Becoming a doctor, however, requires a passion not only for the science, but also for the profession -- helping people through clinical care.
Do not be scared that you won't make it at a top school. Do not go to a state school just because you think you'll get all A's and you're afraid to fail. You will not fail if you work hard. I would always want to be in the best learning environment -- a place where everyone has a passion for learning and other passions beyond academics. This brings the best out of you. The experience of college is more than getting As. And if you work hard and are dedicated to doing well, you will get those As.
I can also attest to the importance of a prestigious name to getting into med schools. I know people try to think that it doesn't matter, but it definitely does make a difference. Of course, people from a variety of schools get into top med schools (or any med school for that matter). However, the prestige of the undergrad institution is also important. I have been fortunate to get into a few top 20 schools already, and I flubbed an MCAT section (7 verbal). I can assure you that I would not have gotten into one of these schools if I had not gotten As at Princeton. If it had only been As at my state school, I would not have been given this opportunity. At Princeton, my top grades are top against the brightest (for the most part) students in the nation. They all work hard and are smart. At a state school, however, some students work hard, but it is certainly not 100% of the class -- which is the case at Princeton (well, not 100% but close to it)
Therefore, do not choose a school based on a fear of failure. If you want to succeed, you will.
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i would like to go to a school that has alot of weed.
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i agree with premed2003. don't pick a school b/c you're afraid of the weed out. most, if not all, schools weed out to some extent. it doesn't usually play a factor if you work really hard. most of those people who get weeded out just don't have the desire or motivation to do well and end up dropping out of the premed classes after their first or second year. i think most schools have a LOT of people starting out as premed who don't make it for one reason or another, usually because they find they simply don't want to do science. there are some who don't make it b/c they don't have a knack for it, but even if they had gone to a state school and had done ok, they would not do well on the mcat so probably wouldn't get in. most of these people wouldn't be successful in med school, so it's a blessing they get weeded out. you should pick a school based on other factors such as the social environment, class offerings, location, etc... not the amount of weeding out that is done.
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The people who get weeded out from a top school would likely have been weeded out from a bottom school too. They would have had to take bio, chem, orgo at the bottom school too and would have realized that they didn't like medicine anyway
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Premed2003 is absolutely right...med schools do take into account the school you went to. if i had my grades coming out of a lesser school (and no, i'm not knocking non-Ivy's, but you can't deny name matters) i would not have gotten nearly the number of interviews and acceptances i have received thus far.
my career services department at dartmouth has stats on acceptances- the acceptance rate nationwide for applicants to med school for 2001 was 50.1% and dartmouth students and alumni had an acceptance rate into a med school of 76.4% (meaning that 3/4 of those who apply get into at least one med school). there is your proof right there. med schools understand that if you go to a high calibur school, then you are taking classes with high calibur students, and that getting the median grade in a premed class isn't so bad, even if its a B-, since you are at the average for a really smart group of kids.
and yg1786, you mentioned that you thought there would be less competetion at a small school such as dartmouth. its not the size of the school, there will always be hardcore competative premeds at any school you go to. but i can speak for dartmouth , and say that people at dartmouth are pretty laid back. there isn't much of a competetive feel to the environment, even the premed classes. there is always one or two jackarses who make it their life mission to get straight A's in premed classes whatever the cost, and the rest of us just ignore them or tell them to f*$% off.
but in the end, the school you pick should be the right fit for you as a person. if you want a small cozy rural campus, pick dartmouth, or a similar school. if you want to be in a city, pick penn or columbia. don't pick an undergrad college because you think it might make it easier being premed. b/c you never know, you may change your mind or find something else you like better.
my career services department at dartmouth has stats on acceptances- the acceptance rate nationwide for applicants to med school for 2001 was 50.1% and dartmouth students and alumni had an acceptance rate into a med school of 76.4% (meaning that 3/4 of those who apply get into at least one med school). there is your proof right there. med schools understand that if you go to a high calibur school, then you are taking classes with high calibur students, and that getting the median grade in a premed class isn't so bad, even if its a B-, since you are at the average for a really smart group of kids.
and yg1786, you mentioned that you thought there would be less competetion at a small school such as dartmouth. its not the size of the school, there will always be hardcore competative premeds at any school you go to. but i can speak for dartmouth , and say that people at dartmouth are pretty laid back. there isn't much of a competetive feel to the environment, even the premed classes. there is always one or two jackarses who make it their life mission to get straight A's in premed classes whatever the cost, and the rest of us just ignore them or tell them to f*$% off.
but in the end, the school you pick should be the right fit for you as a person. if you want a small cozy rural campus, pick dartmouth, or a similar school. if you want to be in a city, pick penn or columbia. don't pick an undergrad college because you think it might make it easier being premed. b/c you never know, you may change your mind or find something else you like better.
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JJNY.
We are soulmates.
Medical Schools need to offer more weed to their students. For medical benefits research and whatnot.
I love Vipers too.
Vroom.
-Pickle
We are soulmates.
Medical Schools need to offer more weed to their students. For medical benefits research and whatnot.
I love Vipers too.
Vroom.
-Pickle
anyone else have approximate numbers? thanx for the encouraging words...i have a friend at hopkins and he told me that pre-med isn't impossible there either...it just takes work. i just want to have an idea of what i'm facing since i'm also applying to 3 BA/MD programs and want to know what i'll be avoiding if i get in and take them
