Scrub tech problems

[tiedyeddog]

Is it just me or do more than half of scrub techs just get the thrill of their lives belittling medical students? I had one this past week outright call stupid me after she dropped a needle driver I had given back to her.

Anyone else feel this way? It seems like every time I meet a new scrub tech they have to show domination over you before you can breathe in their OR. Does this crap stop when you become a resident?

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[boogaloo]

I had one give me a hard time for no reason this week. I also had a couple that were extremely helpful. Shrug it off. It's going to happen at all levels.

 

[link2swim06]

The ones that act that way have a big inferiority complex. The med student is the only person in the OR that they can yell at. I refused to acknowledge anyone that gave me that attitude.

However, the helpful ones can actually teach you a lot if you are willing to listen and learn.

 

[D P356]

The OR can be a hostile place; the **** always rolls downhill. Always.
As mentioned above, shrug it off.
Best of luck.

 

[MedicineMike]

I just subtly make sure the scrub tech knows that I am and will always be smarter than them. If they try to make me look stupid or something I usually will just say something that makes them feel like crap. For example, this one scrub tech would always try and tell me how to do things and laugh if I got a question wrong the attending asked me. So during a lap chole one morning I pointed to the common bile duct and said "since you have seen hundreds of lap choles, you prob know your anatomy well enough to tell me where the common bile duct goes." She had absolutely no idea the answer and has since then shut the f up. You just gotta subtly put these inferiors to bed so they leave you alone.

 

[jm192]

I just subtly make sure the scrub tech knows that I am and will always be smarter than them. If they try to make me look stupid or something I usually will just say something that makes them feel like crap. For example, this one scrub tech would always try and tell me how to do things and laugh if I got a question wrong the attending asked me. So during a lap chole one morning I pointed to the common bile duct and said "since you have seen hundreds of lap choles, you prob know your anatomy well enough to tell me where the common bile duct goes." She had absolutely no idea the answer and has since then shut the f up. You just gotta subtly put these inferiors to bed so they leave you alone.

I think this makes you look like a tool. Med students should probably never pimp anybody. I can't imagine your attending was impressed. I'm guessing this isn't serious.

That said, OP--it happens everywhere. Everyone has their own horror story. They've worked in the OR for years, and most 3rd years are stepping foot into the OR for the first time--or at the very least that particular OR. They of course know how things work there better than you, so it's already easy to feel stupid, and then they jump on it. They get crapped on by surgeons and surgical assistants all day long, and the flack falls back on the med students.

I always smiled and appologized. The surgical attendings usually know they're mean to you.

 

[MedicineMike]

Yeah that did sound Douchey, but it didn't come off that way. My attending laughed bc this tech thinks she is a dr sometimes and many people had problems with her. She got fired shortly thereafter

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I just subtly make sure the scrub tech knows that I am and will always be smarter than them. If they try to make me look stupid or something I usually will just say something that makes them feel like crap. For example, this one scrub tech would always try and tell me how to do things and laugh if I got a question wrong the attending asked me. So during a lap chole one morning I pointed to the common bile duct and said "since you have seen hundreds of lap choles, you prob know your anatomy well enough to tell me where the common bile duct goes." She had absolutely no idea the answer and has since then shut the f up. You just gotta subtly put these inferiors to bed so they leave you alone.

I'd be careful with that kind of attitude.

Like it or not, those "inferiors" have about a hundred ways to make your life miserable, and can influence your grade on the rotation.

You're lucky that scrub didn't start telling you you'd contaminated yourself Q30 minutes.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

It's sort of hilarious how people know that scrub nurses abuse medical students and nobody cares but when a surgeon abuses a scrub nurse, it's like it's the end of the world. Isn't that fascinating?

 

[VisionaryTics]

95% of the scrub nurses I worked with were terrific people who were pleasant to work with.

Remember:
-- ALWAYS introduce yourself to scrub and circulator
-- Offer to grab gown and gloves
-- Never grab anything from the Mayo stand unless the scrub tells you it's fine. EVEN IF YOUR ATTENDING TELLS YOU TO GRAB AN INSTRUMENT, DON'T DO IT.
-- Protect sharps and indicate to the scrub when you're giving them sharp instruments (scalpels, skin hooks, sharp rakes, etc in addition to needles)

The other 5% were miserable people who must be endured. I just reminded myself that they would probably still be the overnight OB scrub tech 5 years from now.

 

[deleted480308]

It's sort of hilarious how people know that scrub nurses abuse medical students and nobody cares but when a surgeon abuses a scrub nurse, it's like it's the end of the world. Isn't that fascinating?

Nurse have a better public relations dept 😉....like teachers, somehow they are all perfect angels

 

[MedicineMike]

I'd be careful with that kind of attitude.

Like it or not, those "inferiors" have about a hundred ways to make your life miserable, and can influence your grade on the rotation.

You're lucky that scrub didn't start telling you you'd contaminated yourself Q30 minutes.

Haha ok. I'll try to be more 'careful.'

The scrub techs are always acting like know-it-alls and how they 'got into med school but didn't go.' Yeah, ok.

Then again, I would be mad too if I had to memorize tools and hand them to people for a living

 

[Anastomoses]

I just subtly make sure the scrub tech knows that I am and will always be smarter than them. If they try to make me look stupid or something I usually will just say something that makes them feel like crap. For example, this one scrub tech would always try and tell me how to do things and laugh if I got a question wrong the attending asked me. So during a lap chole one morning I pointed to the common bile duct and said "since you have seen hundreds of lap choles, you prob know your anatomy well enough to tell me where the common bile duct goes." She had absolutely no idea the answer and has since then shut the f up. You just gotta subtly put these inferiors to bed so they leave you alone.

I think you gave her an easy question if you even told her the name of the duct. Are they not taught basic anatomy?

 

[boogaloo]

Haha ok. I'll try to be more 'careful.'

The scrub techs are always acting like know-it-alls and how they 'got into med school but didn't go.' Yeah, ok.

Then again, I would be mad too if I had to memorize tools and hand them to people for a living

Gotta freshen up your attitude, man. I am waiting for the attending to show up to the OR right now. I have the same scrub tech that gave me a hard time last time, and she did it again about getting gown and gloves, etc. Just small things that any other person would've been nice about (thankfully the other nurse helped me out). I just shrugged it off, and she's a bit more tolerable now. Probably just their way of asserting dominance. Don't take it to heart.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I was bitter about going to a mid-tier state school at first

But then I discovered that basically (with very limited exception) every single nurse, doctor, tech, everybody is just incredibly nice and willing to help you succeed. It's more about education here than research/competition.

So glad I've never encountered this

 

[MedicineMike]

I think you gave her an easy question if you even told her the name of the duct. Are they not taught basic anatomy?

They don't know much to be honest. My favorite thing to do when they try to lecture me on the little they know, I subtly ask them about a similar topic just to see what they know. They usually know nothing and they keep quiet going forward

 

[Wordead]

If you have occasional problems with scrub techs, that's normal and nothing you can do about it.

If you have problems with HALF of the scrub techs, it's probably something you're doing.

 

[MedicineMike]

If you have occasional problems with scrub techs, that's normal and nothing you can do about it.

If you have problems with HALF of the scrub techs, it's probably something you're doing.

The scrub techs at my hospital are awesome. They always take care of me and know my glove size and all that. I always stay after and help them when I can, so we all help each other.

This is just one particular tech who is awful.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I was bitter about going to a mid-tier state school at first

But then I discovered that basically (with very limited exception) every single nurse, doctor, tech, everybody is just incredibly nice and willing to help you succeed. It's more about education here than research/competition.

So glad I've never encountered this

I really doubt that this correlates with school prestige...

 

[ruralsurg4now]

If you have occasional problems with scrub techs, that's normal and nothing you can do about it.

If you have problems with HALF of the scrub techs, it's probably something you're doing.

That's not true at all. Scrub techs are like most nurses (in and out of the OR). When they're new, they're very polite and friendly. As they get older, they get some weird complex and turn into battleaxes. The longer a scrub nurse (or regular nurse) works, the more she thinks she can get away with poor behavior.

 

[MedicineMike]

That's not true at all. Scrub techs are like most nurses (in and out of the OR). When they're new, they're very polite and friendly. As they get older, they get some weird complex and turn into battleaxes. The longer a scrub nurse (or regular nurse) works, the more she thinks she can get away with poor behavior.

I agree with this completely.

 

[Winged Scapula]

That's not true at all. Scrub techs are like most nurses (in and out of the OR). When they're new, they're very polite and friendly. As they get older, they get some weird complex and turn into battleaxes. The longer a scrub nurse (or regular nurse) works, the more she thinks she can get away with poor behavior.

This is especially true if they work frequently or constantly with the same surgeon. They will start to assume they know more than they do and frequently have little to no tolerance for the questions or behaviors of medical students and junior residents.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This is especially true if they work frequently or constantly with the same surgeon. They will start to assume they know more than they do and frequently have little to no tolerance for the questions or behaviors of medical students and junior residents.

On the flip side, sometimes these same scrub techs can be worth their weight in gold.

On of the techs at my place told me the first time I scrubbed in with one of our more notorious attendings: "Just put your hand out. Don't ask me. You'll get what you need." She may not know the anatomy of the common bile duct...but she knows how he likes to do his cases and in what order. And will help out a resident who would otherwise get chewed out by the attending throughout the whole case.

 

[Winged Scapula]

On the flip side, sometimes these same scrub techs can be worth their weight in gold.

On of the techs at my place told me the first time I scrubbed in with one of our more notorious attendings: "Just put your hand out. Don't ask me. You'll get what you need." She may not know the anatomy of the common bile duct...but she knows how he likes to do his cases and in what order. And will help out a resident who would otherwise get chewed out by the attending throughout the whole case.

That's absolutely the case with techs and nurses who are student friendly. An experienced one will guide you and make you look better. I certainly had more examples of those types in residency and fellowship than what the OP is experiencing. They're certainly not all out to get students.

 

[MedicineMike]

On the flip side, sometimes these same scrub techs can be worth their weight in gold.

On of the techs at my place told me the first time I scrubbed in with one of our more notorious attendings: "Just put your hand out. Don't ask me. You'll get what you need." She may not know the anatomy of the common bile duct...but she knows how he likes to do his cases and in what order. And will help out a resident who would otherwise get chewed out by the attending throughout the whole case.

Agree with this. I freaking love those techs! They will make you look like you actually know what you are doing

 

[Wordead]

That's not true at all. Scrub techs are like most nurses (in and out of the OR). When they're new, they're very polite and friendly. As they get older, they get some weird complex and turn into battleaxes. The longer a scrub nurse (or regular nurse) works, the more she thinks she can get away with poor behavior.

Shrug. I've yet to have a scrub tech be a dick to me, young or old. In fact, a lot of them were of a huge help when I was getting used to the OR. And the ones that had been working with one surgeon were often the best - they knew exactly what my attending liked med students to do and told me what to do.

 

[Kaputt]

95% of the scrub nurses I worked with were terrific people who were pleasant to work with.

Remember:
-- ALWAYS introduce yourself to scrub and circulator
-- Offer to grab gown and gloves
-- Never grab anything from the Mayo stand unless the scrub tells you it's fine. EVEN IF YOUR ATTENDING TELLS YOU TO GRAB AN INSTRUMENT, DON'T DO IT.
-- Protect sharps and indicate to the scrub when you're giving them sharp instruments (scalpels, skin hooks, sharp rakes, etc in addition to needles)

The other 5% were miserable people who must be endured. I just reminded myself that they would probably still be the overnight OB scrub tech 5 years from now.

Agreed. Most OR folks will warm up to you immediately if you do the above, are nice, and get out of the way when necessary. Scrub techs have to deal with a new batch of fresh, OR-inept med students every few weeks. I can see how that would be tiring. Especially when we got guys like MedicineMike out to prove they know biliary anatomy better than their "inferiors".

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Agreed. Most OR folks will warm up to you immediately if you do the above, are nice, and get out of the way when necessary. Scrub techs have to deal with a new batch of fresh, OR-inept med students every few weeks. I can see how that would be tiring. Especially when we got guys like MedicineMike out to prove they know biliary anatomy better than their "inferiors".

If you see how that would be tiring, then you should excuse that type of behavior from your residents, since they also have to deal with a new batch of fresh, inept med students every few weeks. But you medical students never do. You just gripe about how sucky the rotation is. Point is, people make lots of excuses for some behavior, for some reason.

 

[EMDO2018]

This is especially true if they work frequently or constantly with the same surgeon. They will start to assume they know more than they do and frequently have little to no tolerance for the questions or behaviors of medical students and junior residents.

True. I think most nurses are just bitter about their complete lack of upward mobility.

 

[Kaputt]

If you see how that would be tiring, then you should excuse that type of behavior from your residents, since they also have to deal with a new batch of fresh, inept med students every few weeks. But you medical students never do. You just gripe about how sucky the rotation is. Point is, people make lots of excuses for some behavior, for some reason.

Dunno where you got the idea that I complain about residents all day. I have great pity for residents, because I know the presence of med students just slows them down in most cases. Don't know why you're directing your med-student-rage against me when I just made a comment to put ones' self in the scrub tech's shoes.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Dunno where you got the idea that I complain about residents all day. I have great pity for residents, because I know the presence of med students just slows them down in most cases. Don't know why you're directing your med-student-rage against me when I just made a comment to put ones' self in the scrub tech's shoes.

Not you, specifically. Med students in general. Everyone is on here defending the actions of scrub techs and yet most will bust on residents.

 

[Trastuz]

Not you, specifically. Med students in general. Everyone is on here defending the actions of scrub techs and yet most will bust on residents.

It's really aggravating coming from a resident because they've been there before. Some seem to forget very quickly what it was like being a med student - always trying to figure out where you should be, what you should be doing, who likes what, having very little control of your very subjective evaluation and basically being subject to the whim of every living thing in the hospital and still trying to help and learn something without getting in the way or sounding like a complete idiot. Being a med student is stressful - albeit in a different way than a resident - and busting on someone whose position is the same yours was a couple of years ago is frustrating and cheap.

Having said that, it is 10x more annoying coming from a scrub nurse who has literally nothing to do with your role or your education. There are some good theories of why they do it posted here.

When I was a couple weeks into my surgery rotation I scrubbed and after gowning and gloving realized I forgot my glasses. The scrub nurse that We usually worked with had just swapped shifts and was still in the OR so I asked her if she wouldn't mind sliding my glasses on. She sighed and rolled her eyes at me and said she wasn't going to do it every time I forgot (this was the first time I forgot and first time I ever asked her or anyone else to do anything for me.. And I was very nice and polite like a med student should be). As she was storming across the room to get my glasses I told her it was alright, I didn't want to put her out and would just do it myself. I yanked my gown, put on my own glasses and scrubbed again. Even though my attending was pissed he had to wait I felt good about not letting the scrub nurse hold a simple favor over my head. I could tell she felt dumb and that made me even happier.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

It's really aggravating coming from a resident because they've been there before. Some seem to forget very quickly what it was like being a med student

That's not so. They know exactly how it was like being a med student. They just now realize there was a reason their residents acted the way they did. See, residents understand both sides of the issue: the med student side and the resident side. Med students only understand the med student side (which is understandable). It's unfortunate, but you won't understand why residents act the way they do until you are one.

 

[Trastuz]

That's not so. They know exactly how it was like being a med student. They just now realize there was a reason their residents acted the way they did. See, residents understand both sides of the issue: the med student side and the resident side. Med students only understand the med student side (which is understandable). It's unfortunate, but you won't understand why residents act the way they do until you are one.

I am one. I still don't think there is a reason to belittle med students. Some med students probably deserve it but the type of residents that bust on med students do it to all of them, regardless of how good/smart they are, kind of like the 5% of scrub nurses that are unbearable.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I am one. I still don't think there is a reason to belittle med students. Some med students probably deserve it but the type of residents that bust on med students do it to all of them, regardless of how good/smart they are, kind of like the 5% of scrub nurses that are unbearable.

I don't think there's a reason to belittle them, but I think that med students definitely do things that tick off and irritate residents that they don't understand why it does until it happens to them as residents.

 

[gators21]

I had one scrub tech that absolutely loved to brag about how she had worked at a big academic institution before coming to work at the hosp I had rotated at. I had worked with her many times before (on my second month of surg), she knew I always scrubbed with this doctor, and sometimes the nurses had my gown/gloves ready before. So I walked in before my doctor to ask if she wanted me to grab my gloves and she starts trying to belittle me saying how I would never be able to do a residency at a big time academic institution because even PGY 5s knew to grab their gloves before the case, blah, blah, blah.... whatever I just scrubbed and waited for my doctor. She continued to brag about how because she was a scrub tech at a big time institution that she was so much smarter than the med students.
The attending finally got so fed up with her that he turned to her and said " And what exactly did you do at this big academic powerhouse besides hand tools to the doctor?" She stopped talking for the rest of the case and the Doc and I had a good laugh after

 

[Anastomoses]

I had one scrub tech that absolutely loved to brag about how she had worked at a big academic institution before coming to work at the hosp I had rotated at. I had worked with her many times before (on my second month of surg), she knew I always scrubbed with this doctor, and sometimes the nurses had my gown/gloves ready before. So I walked in before my doctor to ask if she wanted me to grab my gloves and she starts trying to belittle me saying how I would never be able to do a residency at a big time academic institution because even PGY 5s knew to grab their gloves before the case, blah, blah, blah.... whatever I just scrubbed and waited for my doctor. She continued to brag about how because she was a scrub tech at a big time institution that she was so much smarter than the med students.
The attending finally got so fed up with her that he turned to her and said " And what exactly did you do at this big academic powerhouse besides hand tools to the doctor?" She stopped talking for the rest of the case and the Doc and I had a good laugh after

Yeah, people who think they are important by association are always amusing.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Being a scrub tech (or a nurse or a tech or a janitor) at a big-name institution is irrelevant because you're generally just "whoever happened to live in the neighborhood." In some cases, even being a physician at those places is irrelevant because it may be famous because of a different department than yours, or even just famous because of one guy in your department (who is not you, usually).

 

[Kaustikos]

Man, I guess I see it differently.
Scrub nurses are usually like this because thats how theyre trained. They "act" mean not because thry hate you but because theyve dealt with med students in the past and cant take any chances of screwups. They've had so many times where students do stupid **** so they preemptively take precaution.
Just be smart; act like you dont know **** and need their help. Doing that makes them feel better with you there because they see that you don't want to screw up. I have a nurse who always tells me to step away from the da vinci machine every time I'm there. Am I insulted? No. Shes in charge of making sure that bazillion piece of equipment doesnt get ****ed with. She knows who I am byt still takes that precaution.
Realize also that you aren't the one who gets ****ed if something goes wrong. The nurse will have her head chopped before yours. They can't take that chance.

just relax and dont take it so personally.

 

[Kaustikos]

Also, nurses are awesome because they can give you free things if you ask.
"Oh, we dont have any suture kits to hand out in this room... but there might be a desk drawer next door that has stuff..."
And Kaus gets free **** once again!

 

[startswithb]

Man, I guess I see it differently.
Scrub nurses are usually like this because thats how theyre trained. They "act" mean not because thry hate you but because theyve dealt with med students in the past and cant take any chances of screwups. They've had so many times where students do stupid **** so they preemptively take precaution.
Just be smart; act like you dont know **** and need their help. Doing that makes them feel better with you there because they see that you don't want to screw up. I have a nurse who always tells me to step away from the da vinci machine every time I'm there. Am I insulted? No. Shes in charge of making sure that bazillion piece of equipment doesnt get ****** with. She knows who I am byt still takes that precaution.
Realize also that you aren't the one who gets ****** if something goes wrong. The nurse will have her head chopped before yours. They can't take that chance.

just relax and dont take it so personally.

THIS is the right attitude. I suggest everyone in this thread read "How to Win Friends and Influence People." It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters how you make others feel. This is how you will go the furthest in life.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

THIS is the right attitude. I suggest everyone in this thread read "How to Win Friends and Influence People." It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters how you make others feel. This is how you will go the furthest in life.

That's great, but as I say all the time, why aren't people saying that to the scrub techs (or fill in the blank)? Instead, it's like "they get to keep acting any way they want, and you read this book about how to take it from them." Who needs that?

Let's say a medical student acted exactly like the scrub tech and was surly and abusive and rude. Then nobody would be saying "oh, the key is we need to approach them with a friendly demeanor and accomodate them." They'd just say "f**k that guy/girl, let's laugh when they get destroyed." That's the hypocrisy of the advice, no offense. If it's good advice, then it should apply to everyone.

 

[Anastomoses]

That's great, but as I say all the time, why aren't people saying that to the scrub techs (or fill in the blank)? Instead, it's like "they get to keep acting any way they want, and you read this book about how to take it from them." Who needs that?

Let's say a medical student acted exactly like the scrub tech and was surly and abusive and rude. Then nobody would be saying "oh, the key is we need to approach them with a friendly demeanor and accomodate them." They'd just say "f**k that guy/girl, let's laugh when they get destroyed." That's the hypocrisy of the advice, no offense. If it's good advice, then it should apply to everyone.

I think what the above posters mean is - you can change your attitude but you can't change other people; work around this.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think what the above posters mean is - you can change your attitude but you can't change other people; work around this.

I was prepping an incision site for a C-section, and as I was scrubbing away with the chloroprep I apparently was scrubbing too far laterally for the scrub nurse's comfort. I don't think I was, but regardless it was at most maybe 1-2 cm past the incision site, if that. The scrub nurse claimed that I had contaminated the field, told me to throw away the chloroprep, and said she'd just do it.

lolwut

 

[EMDO2018]

THIS is the right attitude. I suggest everyone in this thread read "How to Win Friends and Influence People." It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters how you make others feel. This is how you will go the furthest in life.

I read that book, and the central thesis was basically if you kiss someone's butt that person will like you.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I think what the above posters mean is - you can change your attitude but you can't change other people; work around this.

I understand that. I'm just saying that nobody "works around" a medical student with attitude. It's selective, see what I mean? Like if you take a surgeon, for example, and they go crazy on a scrub tech, then it'll be "hey, read this book on how to accept them and so on." Take the exact same surgeon and a medical student who acts the exact same way as the scrub tech and it'll be "go to town on that med student, show them how their attidude must change."

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I was prepping an incision site for a C-section, and as I was scrubbing away with the chloroprep I apparently was scrubbing too far laterally for the scrub nurse's comfort. I don't think I was, but regardless it was at most maybe 1-2 cm past the incision site, if that. The scrub nurse claimed that I had contaminated the field, told me to throw away the chloroprep, and said she'd just do it.

lolwut

It's impossible to prep someone "too far" in any direction. There's no magic distance that you can't prep beyond. You could technically continue upwards until you hit the anesthesiologist if you wanted to.

 

[VisionaryTics]

I was prepping an incision site for a C-section, and as I was scrubbing away with the chloroprep I apparently was scrubbing too far laterally for the scrub nurse's comfort. I don't think I was, but regardless it was at most maybe 1-2 cm past the incision site, if that. The scrub nurse claimed that I had contaminated the field, told me to throw away the chloroprep, and said she'd just do it.

lolwut

You should've prepped the prep stick.

 

[DrBowtie]

Just wait for that rare moment when the count is off, then observe and enjoy.

 

[deleted128562]

Just remember, the best way to withhold validation from a a person is to ignore them. Like others have said, 95% of scrub nurses/techs are awesome and will really help you out. As for the other 5%, they probably have a chip on their shoulder, just ignore them. If they say you contaminated yourself then just take off your crap, rescrub and get regowned without saying a word. If they yell at you for something, act like you didn't even hear them. I can be a bit of a hothead so I'm still learning this skill, but the older I get the more I find that just outright ignoring people shuts them up waaaaay better than engaging in any form of confrontation.