Second look

[pete27]

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I will be going on a second look at my top program. What should I expect? Will it be more shadowing a resident for the day or more like a second interview or both? I would love to hear your past/present experiences.

 

[Ludicolo]

Second looks vary from program to program, but for the most part are low key. Mostly shadowing, in order for you to get a “day in the life” kind of vibe. No formal interviewing, but you still want to act professional, and you may briefly meet/re-meet with the PD or other faculty.

IMHO (unsolicited) - second looks should be for the applicant, in order to allow him/her to make a better informed decision re: ROL. They shouldn’t be about “face time” and having to “demonstrate interest” in the program. But as residencies in general have become more competitive, this is what they’ve become.

 

[eljefe]

make sure to tell the program coordinator exactly what you have in mind before you go. many are not mind-readers and you don't want to waste your time and money. ie. if you want face time--tell them that (phrase it a little better though of course). otherwise, you may end up spending you day(s) doing whatever is easiest for the coordinator to arrange like rotating with a junior resident who does not have much pull.

most second looks are brief (1-2 days max) and if you are really trying to get a better feel for the program (and not just face time), i'm not sure how much you are going to get out of it. may be better to send some emails to a couple of the residents you met on the interview and ask them some questions--they will likely be more frank with you one on one via email than they were during the interview.

 

[Karaoke]

I used to arrange second looks for my program, and I always made sure to
ask the prospectives what they wanted to achieve and sent them a schedule in
advance to make sure it looked okay to them. At my program, it was purely
for the benefit of the applicant. Our director made it very clear to us that he
would not alter his ranking of a candidate based on the second look.

A typical second look schedule would include shadowing a resident on morning
rounds on an inpatient unit; whatever mid-day educational session was
happening that particular day; coffee break with me for a chance to ask
questions about the program; and an hour or so shadowing a resident in clinic.
By lunch time, the applicants usually felt like they'd seen enough, and talked
to enough residents, and were ready to go home. There was never an
interview, nor face with the program director.

Hope that helps.

 

[oreosandsake]

Our director made it very clear to us that he
would not alter his ranking of a candidate based on the second look.
Hope that helps.

Glad to know that being on good behavior for one day doesn't "fool" anyone.

especially since I can't afford the $ for second looks.

 

[lifeaseyeknowit]

Just out of curiosity...would you consider it a bad sign if a program coordinator didn't get back to you after you requested a second look? Would you assume that the program is not likely very interested in you...?

 

[Karaoke]

Hmmm.

... I'd say either the program isn't very interested in you, or the director is
pretty disorganized (which wouldn't speak too well of the program). Or I guess
the director could be on vacation ... or sick ... or ...

Or maybe they don't do second looks? I give up.

 

[pete27]

what's the best way to gauge interest from a program on how you'll be ranked without committing a match violation?

 

[Ludicolo]

what's the best way to gauge interest from a program on how you'll be ranked without committing a match violation?

Why should that matter? If you haven’t already, please take a look at the NRMP Matching Algorithm. Rank your programs in the order in which YOU want to go. End of story.

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

 

[Karaoke]

I agree with Ludicolo. All you want is to get into a program that you want to be
in, not brag about getting your "top choice" or your second choice. You
shouldn't bump a program up or down on your list based on their interest in
you (or their lack of interest). Just call it the way you see it.

On the other hand, I believe residency programs *will* bump a candidate up
or down based on their perception of how interested a candidate is, because
they care about how "far down" they had to reach in order to fill. In an ideal
world they wouldn't do that and would just rank the candidates, but that just
isn't the case, I think, in actuality.

So it behooves you to express interest to the programs you like, but it doesn't
help you to know which programs like you. Unless you're just curious.

 

[pete27]

i will be ranking based on the right program for me...i was just curious

and the showing interest part...after writing thank you notes and letters of interest...what else can you do without annoying them with calls...or do they like candidates calling in and checking up?

 

[Karaoke]

Since I was at NYU, I can tell you that you get brownie points for a thank-you
card or email, and more brownie points if you tell them they are one of your
top choices (or even #1). Beyond that, there's nothing else you can do to help
yourself, at least, not at that program. Additional phone calls don't help, and
extra emails or cards don't help either. Taking a second look will not help.

Don't know how much of that holds true at other institutions, but for what it's
worth, that's how it is at NYU.

 

[fizzziatrist]

Since I was at NYU, I can tell you that you get brownie points for a thank-you
card or email, and more brownie points if you tell them they are one of your
top choices (or even #1). Beyond that, there's nothing else you can do to help
yourself, at least, not at that program. Additional phone calls don't help, and
extra emails or cards don't help either. Taking a second look will not help.

Don't know how much of that holds true at other institutions, but for what it's
worth, that's how it is at NYU.

Yea I absolutely think sending thank you notes helps. I've been sending thank you emails directly to pds and interviewers. I told my number one they are number one. I told top 5 they are a "top choice". I've done a couple second looks but don't get the impression it made a difference. I think anything more than this would indeed come across as annoying. Imo it's not professional to call programs with ranking info.