Secondary question - talking about Israel?

[carnivalnorth]

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[mysdnhandle]

If its an open ended question sure why not. If you go off on a tangent about israel it might be kinda weird depending on who reads it. As long as you dont include the phrases 'right to defend itself' or 'terrorist' or anything like that, talking about heritage is definitely a plus i would think.

 

[kthxbai]

Hi there. I'm Israeli (and I come with all the baggage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - right to defend ourselves, believing Palestinians are less than upstanding folks, etc), and I avoided mentioning ANYTHING politically related. I mean anything at all - no matter how relevant I thought it may be.

That also includes but not limited to over-enthusiasm about Israel and Judaism (Americans have a hard time believing we're great people right now). Don't leave the impression you're overwhelmingly pro-Israel because it will rub someone the wrong way.

Best of luck tactfully phrasing your responses.

 

[Lamel]

Seems like not such a smart idea considering what is going on right now. Have you ever lived in Israel? I personally wouldn't think of your connection as that strong if you were born in the USA and lived here your whole life, but went to Israel a few times to visit.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Why would you? Unless it asks for a passion completely unrelated to medicine it seems kind of weird to bring up...especially since your EMT thing is still a plan and not really an activity.

 

[F1rstGen]

Put yourself in the shoes of an ADCOM. The US is facing a massive shortage of physicians and the areas that are the most underserved are experiencing the greatest amount of difficulty attracting medical professionals to serve their populations. Now, you have two applicants before you whom have equal stats, but one elaborates about a desire to practice within an underserved population within the US while the other student dedicates half a secondary to expressing love for a country/culture on the opposite side of the globe.

It isn't something to be considered antisemitic or biased, it's just an ADCOM trying to address the issues facing our country's health system by accepting applicants that are believed to further that mission. That being said, if you can talk about how you relate to other US citizens that share your views/culture and how you want to specifically design a practice that might make the people of this group feel more secure with their provider, then it might be worth mentioning. Unless you have the experiences and genuine ambition to support that statement though, I'd avoid the topic all together. Not too many schools are going to jump at the opportunity to invest resources in a student that is going to leave the country post-residency.

My 2 cents.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Put yourself in the shoes of an ADCOM. The US is facing a massive shortage of physicians and the areas that are the most underserved are experiencing the greatest amount of difficulty attracting medical professionals to serve their populations. Now, you have two applicants before you whom have equal stats, but one elaborates about a desire to practice within an underserved population within the US while the other student dedicates half a secondary to expressing love for a country/culture on the opposite side of the globe.

It isn't something to be considered antisemitic or biased, it's just an ADCOM trying to address the issues facing our country's health system by accepting applicants that are believed to further that mission. That being said, if you can talk about how you relate to other US citizens that share your views/culture and how you want to specifically design a practice that might make the people of this group feel more secure with their provider, then it might be worth mentioning. Unless you have the experiences and genuine ambition to support that statement though, I'd avoid the topic all together. Not too many schools are going to jump at the opportunity to invest resources in a student that is going to leave the country post-residency.

My 2 cents.

I mean even then...the Jewish population around Mt. Sinai or really anywhere in the US (from what I saw) is not exactly under-served...

 

[carnivalnorth]

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[F1rstGen]

I mean even then...the Jewish population around Mt. Sinai or really anywhere in the US (from what I saw) is not exactly under-served...

Yeah, it may be a stereotype but Jewish people and money skills are usually considered synonymous so saying they are struggling to find adequate care, even if true, may not convince many ADCOMs. Safe bet is OMITing the topic entirely.

 

[kthxbai]

Yeah, it may be a stereotype but Jewish people and money skills are usually considered synonymous so saying they are struggling to find adequate care, even if true, may not convince many ADCOMs. Safe bet is OMITing the topic entirely.

Total stereotype.

You should learn about my life - and you wouldn't think it anymore.

 

[F1rstGen]

I was mostly talking specifically about one of Sinai's prompts: Please tell us about a passion (professional or personal) you have had thus far in your life.

I'm not planning on trying to incorporate Israel into anything beyond that except for what I'm doing during the gap year (EMS volunteer in Israel). I feel like that prompt is an opportunity to describe a part of myself that is outside of medicine and Judaism and Israel are a large part of my identity as I went to private Jewish day school for elementary/middle/high school and half my family is in Israel.

As I said before, half your family is in Israel and half my family is in a rural US town with <1500 people total. Who is more likely to stay local and serve the needs of our country?

I'm not trying to discount what I realize is a huge part of what you identify as self but you need to understand the perspective of the people who will ultimately analyze your application. Diversity is great and being different or from various locations is not considered a bad thing but showing any desire to return back to that foreign location could be taken as a negative. That's just my thoughts on this matter though so take it with a grain of salt. Maybe someone in a more enlightened position than I can provide better advice.

 

[carnivalnorth]

I see what you're saying. Thanks for the perspective! Back to the drawing board I guess.

 

[infinitessimal]

Look, your experiences are your experiences, and there's no way around mentioning the organizations in which you've been involved that relate to Israel. No problem in doing that. As far as highlighting a "passion" or "identity" with Israel - to be honest, it's just not a good time. Even if you don't overtly talk about its politics, it is going to be political to anyone who reads it and has an opinion on the issue. If you need any proof, look at the actor David Duchovny and all the controversy his non-political beer commercial about his Russian heritage has caused: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-love-russia-at-the-worst-possible-moment/

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Total stereotype.

You should learn about my life - and you wouldn't think it anymore.

You may be under-served but the ethnicity isn't. I'm sure you could find plenty of anglo-saxons/Asian Americans/etc etc who are under-served in large urban areas but you know...

 

[F1rstGen]

Total stereotype.

You should learn about my life - and you wouldn't think it anymore.

As an aside, acknowledging a stereotype exists doesn't equate to believing said stereotype. Also, stating that NO stereotype exists is called being oblivious.

 

[USC23]

Sorry to say it, but everyone that has posted so far is extremely ignorant and not the least bit knowledgable about this process whatsoever. If it's part of who you are and you have a a passion for it, write it and be proud of it. There is nothing wrong with being israeli, supporting Israel or identifying with the country. Medical schools love diversity, and it will not affect your application one bit. You sound smart enough to know not to mention any political stuff about their army, etc,. so I'll spare telling you that bit of advice, even though everyone here has already condescendingly done so. There is nothing wrong with writing about your passion for Israel, and it will not look bad to an admissions committee member.

 

[Ismet]

Sorry to say it, but everyone that has posted so far is extremely ignorant and not the least bit knowledgable about this process whatsoever. If it's part of who you are and you have a a passion for it, write it and be proud of it. There is nothing wrong with being israeli, supporting Israel or identifying with the country. Medical schools love diversity, and it will not affect your application one bit. You sound smart enough to know not to mention any political stuff about their army, etc,. so I'll spare telling you that bit of advice, even though everyone here has already condescendingly done so. There is nothing wrong with writing about your passion for Israel, and it will not look bad to an admissions committee member.

100% agree with this. You can talk about Israel and your heritage and all the stuff you mentioned in the OP without getting political, and it doesn't sound like you were planning on saying anything political.

It is a fine topic to write about for Sinai. As a committee member for a school with a diversity essay in the secondary, I wouldn't think anything less of an applicant who mentions ties to Israel. My doing so would be incredibly ignorant and short-sighted.

 

[slopes23]

Might I just throw this into the mix. While as a country we are experiencing a large shortage of physicians especially in the rural areas of the US, it doesn't mean that every schools mission is to create physicians that want to move to rural areas and treat the under served. Moreover, I don't think Sinai, being in NYC is really concerned about pumping out physicians who want to go the rural route.

What I do think a school like Sinai looks for is diversity. Being in NYC you are going to meet people from all corners of the earth. If you can tie your passion, background, and experiences with Israel and leave the reader thinking that you can meet someone who is completely unlike you and get along and understand them, then I believe it would be a major benefit.

However, achieving this is often less about the experience per se and more about how well you can write/talk about that experience and support the narrative that your background will add to the classes diversity and your personal ability to understand those around you. Essentially, whether you should or should not include this is more likely a lot more dependent on specifically how you are going to say it and perhaps less what you are going to say.

Same thing can be said about research. You could have the best research experience, learned a ton and would make a great addition to anyone's team. But if you can't speak well about it and actually explain how this is true, it means nothing. Where as someone who achieved significantly less than you, but speaks about it tactfully, knowledgable, and dynamically they will beat you out every time.

Tldr; long winded way of saying, it's a difficult question to accurately answer for anyone on here with out specifically knowing what you would write versus speaking in generalities asking if a general topic is okay.

 

[Ismet]

Look, your experiences are your experiences, and there's no way around mentioning the organizations in which you've been involved that relate to Israel. No problem in doing that. As far as highlighting a "passion" or "identity" with Israel - to be honest, it's just not a good time. Even if you don't overtly talk about its politics, it is going to be political to anyone who reads it and has an opinion on the issue. If you need any proof, look at the actor David Duchovny and all the controversy his non-political beer commercial about his Russian heritage has caused: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-love-russia-at-the-worst-possible-moment/

There's a difference between sensationalist media overreaction and knowledgable and tolerant med school admissions staff.

 

[carnivalnorth]

Thanks for the replies!

I was planning on incorporating an experience in Israel where I was participating in an army simulation program for Israeli teenagers that simulates basic training and prepares them for their military service. I learned a lot from the experience that I believe is transferable to medicine.

Would this be something to avoid speaking about because it was an IDF program?

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Thanks for the replies!

I was planning on incorporating an experience in Israel where I was participating in an army simulation program for Israeli teenagers that simulates basic training and prepares them for their military service. I learned a lot from the experience that I believe is transferable to medicine.

Would this be something to avoid speaking about because it was an IDF program?

I don't remember what the prompt for sinai was last year. What's the actual secondary question you're trying to answer? This would probably get you better answers.

 

[carnivalnorth]

one of Sinai's prompts: Please tell us about a passion (professional or personal) you have had thus far in your life.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Ah so it hasn't changed really. I don't know. I would use that as an opportunity to talk about something more related to medicine (I used research) and the other to talk about your IDF experience (one is a "challenge" one right?).

 

[carnivalnorth]

Ah so it hasn't changed really. I don't know. I would use that as an opportunity to talk about something more related to medicine (I used research) and the other to talk about your IDF experience (one is a "challenge" one right?).

I think they may have changed it from last year. The second prompt is describing a situation in which working with others has been challenging. I already wrote about a conflict in a lab I worked in that I resolved with better communication/coordination.

 

[Monika12]

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[slopes23]

Thanks for the replies!

I was planning on incorporating an experience in Israel where I was participating in an army simulation program for Israeli teenagers that simulates basic training and prepares them for their military service. I learned a lot from the experience that I believe is transferable to medicine.

Would this be something to avoid speaking about because it was an IDF program?

Again, while this gives a little more context to what your asking, to accurately gauge whether or not to include it, it would be preferable to actually know the exact wording you would use. As I alluded to earlier, a lot of this stuff is more on your abilities as an author, and slightly less about the specific experience. It's all about cohesively and articulately describing an experience to push a narrative of traits that a reader can infer. The best arguments are made when you don't need to say you are strong, rather you show it and let the reader/person come to that conclusion. Self initiated ideas about anything are always stronger than being told what to think.

Your ability to actually do this is very difficult to discern with out actually knowing your previous writing skills, and even then that perhaps would not indicate your ability to do that on this specific prompt. Note, this advice applies to anything you choose to write about, it's not unique to whether or not you choose to write about your experiences and ties with Israel.

 

[NickNaylor]

Again, while this gives a little more context to what your asking, to accurately gauge whether or not to include it, it would be preferable to actually know the exact wording you would use. As I alluded to earlier, a lot of this stuff is more on your abilities as an author, and slightly less about the specific experience. It's all about cohesively and articulately describing an experience to push a narrative of traits that a reader can infer. The best arguments are made when you don't need to say you are strong, rather you show it and let the reader/person come to that conclusion. Self initiated ideas about anything are always stronger than being told what to think.

Your ability to actually do this is very difficult to discern with out actually knowing your previous writing abilities, and even then that perhaps would not indicate your ability to do that on this specific prompt. Note, this advice applies to anything your choose to write about, it's not unique to whether or not you choose to write about your experiences and ties with Israel.

Agree with this. In the interest of providing general advice, I think it would be a good idea to avoid discussing a politically charged topic like this - not because the topic should be in and of itself not worth mentioning, but because you run the risk of poorly articulating your position and/or discussing it in a way that others might not go along with.

If you do decide to go this, OP, I would strongly advise getting some people to look over your description/essay/whatever to get their feedback and ensure that their perception of your piece is what you intended.

 

[kthxbai]

Sorry to say it, but everyone that has posted so far is extremely ignorant and not the least bit knowledgable about this process whatsoever. If it's part of who you are and you have a a passion for it, write it and be proud of it. There is nothing wrong with being israeli, supporting Israel or identifying with the country. Medical schools love diversity, and it will not affect your application one bit. You sound smart enough to know not to mention any political stuff about their army, etc,. so I'll spare telling you that bit of advice, even though everyone here has already condescendingly done so. There is nothing wrong with writing about your passion for Israel, and it will not look bad to an admissions committee member.

I'm with you. Although you have absolutely got to stay away from politically charged content.

 

[carnivalnorth]

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[NickNaylor]

In regards to specific wording, I was thinking something like this:

As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to, and a passion for, the state of Israel. Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language. I have been a member of many organizations and programs that have allowed me to engage with others who share my passion, including one that provides student exchange opportunities between American and Israeli teenagers. My most meaningful experience in Israel was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers preparing for their military service. My commander, who had been a combat medic, constantly admonished me on the value of human life, an important lesson for any future physician. Above all, I learned how cooperation in the face of adversity is essential to success in a common goal, a frequent mantra in medicine. During the upcoming year, I plan to volunteer in Israel as an EMS ambulance first responder through the Magen David Adom Overseas Volunteer Program. My reasons for doing so are two-fold: I wish to gain hands on exposure to emergency medicine, and I want to give back to Israel in a meaningful way. The opportunity to work with Israelis on the forefront of medical emergencies and have a positive impact on many lives will be one that will undoubtedly be extremely rewarding and serve me in my intended career as a physician.

I think that's perfectly appropriate, though, be advised, you might run into people that oppose your position out of political prejudices. That's not something you can really control, though, and if the experience is that important to you such that you think it's critical to discuss, then that's something you'll have to accept.

 

[infinitessimal]

@carnivalnorth
This is just my opinion, but if I were reading it, here's what I would think:
"Passion for the state of Israel" implies a political affiliation (its right to exist, etc); "engage with others who share my passion" implies mobilization. Then I think, okay, maybe it has nothing to do with Israel's military agenda, perhaps this student shares other kinds of passions. But then you go and talk about a military program. Everything from "My commander" until the end is fine, since it relates more to the qualities of medicine and leadership and altruism. But it is in the shadow of the first impression, which makes the reader feel you are doing this less as a doctor without borders (if you will) and more because you want to support Israel's mission. As a person, you can support whatever you want, but as an applicant I would stay away from polarizing stances like this.

My advice is to cut the intro simply to this: "As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to the state of Israel. My most meaningful experience was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers... [etc]" It still has political connotations, but it avoids words like 'passion for the state' and 'engage with others' and makes the essay more about your service than your views.

EDIT: You should keep the "Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language" as well, I missed it when copying and pasting.

 

[Ismet]

In regards to specific wording, I was thinking something like this:

As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to, and a passion for, the state of Israel. Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language. I have been a member of many organizations and programs that have allowed me to engage with others who share my passion, including one that provides student exchange opportunities between American and Israeli teenagers. My most meaningful experience in Israel was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers preparing for their military service. My commander, who had been a combat medic, constantly admonished me on the value of human life, an important lesson for any future physician. Above all, I learned how cooperation in the face of adversity is essential to success in a common goal, a frequent mantra in medicine. During the upcoming year, I plan to volunteer in Israel as an EMS ambulance first responder through the Magen David Adom Overseas Volunteer Program. My reasons for doing so are two-fold: I wish to gain hands on exposure to emergency medicine, and I want to give back to Israel in a meaningful way. The opportunity to work with Israelis on the forefront of medical emergencies and have a positive impact on many lives will be one that will undoubtedly be extremely rewarding and serve me in my intended career as a physician.

I think it sounds great so far.

For my own curiosity, were there American citizens in the Gadna program as well? There's a rather large Jewish population in my city and I've spoken to people whose kids are training over in Israel right now, but I don't really know the specific programs or anything. Just wondering!

 

[kthxbai]

In regards to specific wording, I was thinking something like this:

As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to, and a passion for, the state of Israel. Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language. I have been a member of many organizations and programs that have allowed me to engage with others who share my passion, including one that provides student exchange opportunities between American and Israeli teenagers. My most meaningful experience in Israel was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers preparing for their military service. My commander, who had been a combat medic, constantly admonished me on the value of human life, an important lesson for any future physician. Above all, I learned how cooperation in the face of adversity is essential to success in a common goal, a frequent mantra in medicine. During the upcoming year, I plan to volunteer in Israel as an EMS ambulance first responder through the Magen David Adom Overseas Volunteer Program. My reasons for doing so are two-fold: I wish to gain hands on exposure to emergency medicine, and I want to give back to Israel in a meaningful way. The opportunity to work with Israelis on the forefront of medical emergencies and have a positive impact on many lives will be one that will undoubtedly be extremely rewarding and serve me in my intended career as a physician.

Oy vey. That military mention is going to sink you if an adcom with so much shares a hint of sympathy with Palestinians. Rephrase. Avoid the army.

 

[mimelim]

In regards to specific wording, I was thinking something like this:

As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to, and a passion for, the state of Israel. Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language. I have been a member of many organizations and programs that have allowed me to engage with others who share my passion, including one that provides student exchange opportunities between American and Israeli teenagers. My most meaningful experience in Israel was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers preparing for their military service. My commander, who had been a combat medic, constantly admonished me on the value of human life, an important lesson for any future physician. Above all, I learned how cooperation in the face of adversity is essential to success in a common goal, a frequent mantra in medicine. During the upcoming year, I plan to volunteer in Israel as an EMS ambulance first responder through the Magen David Adom Overseas Volunteer Program. My reasons for doing so are two-fold: I wish to gain hands on exposure to emergency medicine, and I want to give back to Israel in a meaningful way. The opportunity to work with Israelis on the forefront of medical emergencies and have a positive impact on many lives will be one that will undoubtedly be extremely rewarding and serve me in my intended career as a physician.

Personally, this would be a negative on an application. Personal opinion from someone who used to read medical school admissions applications and now reads residency apps. n=1.

From a content perspective, you took part in an IDF training program. A program that has been considered by many inside Israel to be "overly militaristic" and some outside as being analogous to the "Hitler Youth". The entire purpose of Gadna is to familiarize Israeli youth's with the military and to instill nationalistic pride in foreign born Jews and connect them further with Israel. Outside of this at all, realize that many consider Israel to be a terror state, and the IDF to be the ruthless and brutal arm of that state. No, it is not the most common opinion. No, it is not the prevailing opinion in the United States, but especially in light of recent events, it would be unwise to piss off the handful of people that are going to care. The vast majority of adcoms won't have any opinion. Many will see it as a positive, but there are going to be a fair few that it is going to be a negative.

From a writing perspective. "Passion for Israel", "My commander", "Give back to Israel" probably don't belong in a medical school application.

But, again, personal opinion: find another outlet for your 'passion for Israel' other than your application for medical school.

 

[slopes23]

In regards to specific wording, I was thinking something like this:

As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to, and a passion for, the state of Israel. Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language. I have been a member of many organizations and programs that have allowed me to engage with others who share my passion, including one that provides student exchange opportunities between American and Israeli teenagers. My most meaningful experience in Israel was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers preparing for their military service. My commander, who had been a combat medic, constantly admonished me on the value of human life, an important lesson for any future physician. Above all, I learned how cooperation in the face of adversity is essential to success in a common goal, a frequent mantra in medicine. During the upcoming year, I plan to volunteer in Israel as an EMS ambulance first responder through the Magen David Adom Overseas Volunteer Program. My reasons for doing so are two-fold: I wish to gain hands on exposure to emergency medicine, and I want to give back to Israel in a meaningful way. The opportunity to work with Israelis on the forefront of medical emergencies and have a positive impact on many lives will be one that will undoubtedly be extremely rewarding and serve me in my intended career as a physician.

Sounds good to me too. One suggestion would be perhaps to elaborate more on the ways you specifically learned about the value of human life and/or what adversities you faced that cultivated this ability for cooperation. Also consider finding a more subtle way to relate it to medicine. Outright telling them what you feel is important quality a physician to have, or saying what a frequent mantra in medicine while not necessarily factually incorrect, lacks tact. It would perhaps be better stated to delete it entirely, for example I would delete the second time you stated how it ties into medicine and maybe rephrase the first time you say it to something like "...value of human life. An appreciation that I will now especially hold near to my heart forever."

Being a little more indirect can be a more powerful way to get your point across. Any reader or Adcom worth their salt would understand that having an appreciation for life, and the ability to cooperate in the face of adversity of applicable skills to medicine. Forcing the connection only weakens it, IMHO.

Other than those things, I don't personally see much if any political connections despite what infinitesimal says. Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but it wasn't an initial reaction for ,e, and even after reading this guys post I still couldn't make the connections he was trying to point out. But who knows. Hopefully people keep responding and give you their opinion as whatever the majority comes out to be will likely be how you can expect your essay to be received by readers at Sinai.

 

[stickshifthonda]

Personally, I talked about Israel/Judaism in my apps and I submitted these before the current conflict started. I don't think there's anything wrong with addressing your passion for the state but doing so automatically (like somebody above said) exposes you to offend somebody who is listening to the US media and believing it all, or isn't educated on the Israel-Gaza issue, or is of Palestinian descent or sympathizes with Gaza.

Your paragraph reads very well and I don't feel like you pushed any sort of political agenda or even introduced politics. Granted political thoughts can be evoked as easily as saying a country's name, but you did a good job here. Oh and not to mention you're writing this for Sinai... I think it's going to go over fine!

 

[CliveStaples]

Personally, this would be a negative on an application. Personal opinion from someone who used to read medical school admissions applications and now reads residency apps. n=1.

From a content perspective, you took part in an IDF training program. A program that has been considered by many inside Israel to be "overly militaristic" and some outside as being analogous to the "Hitler Youth". The entire purpose of Gadna is to familiarize Israeli youth's with the military and to instill nationalistic pride in foreign born Jews and connect them further with Israel. Outside of this at all, realize that many consider Israel to be a terror state, and the IDF to be the ruthless and brutal arm of that state. No, it is not the most common opinion. No, it is not the prevailing opinion in the United States, but especially in light of recent events, it would be unwise to piss off the handful of people that are going to care. The vast majority of adcoms won't have any opinion. Many will see it as a positive, but there are going to be a fair few that it is going to be a negative.

From a writing perspective. "Passion for Israel", "My commander", "Give back to Israel" probably don't belong in a medical school application.

But, again, personal opinion: find another outlet for your 'passion for Israel' other than your application for medical school.

Yeah, I'm going with the physician former adcom member on this one. This is absolutely riddled with potential red flags to me. So many political connotations and VERY loosely related to medicine at all. I would never advise a friend of mine to include any of this at all.

 

[slopes23]

Still a small sample size, but perhaps use the responses you have gotten so far as a way to gauge your risk. Seems like perhaps people are 50:50. Maybe ask yourself if you are comfortable with sending it in and it being hit-or-miss. Also ask yourself in relationship to this, if you didn't write about Israel, what your alternatives are in what you could write about and how strong it would be relatively to help you better judge what your risk should be.

 

[slopes23]

Personally, this would be a negative on an application. Personal opinion from someone who used to read medical school admissions applications and now reads residency apps. n=1.

From a content perspective, you took part in an IDF training program. A program that has been considered by many inside Israel to be "overly militaristic" and some outside as being analogous to the "Hitler Youth". The entire purpose of Gadna is to familiarize Israeli youth's with the military and to instill nationalistic pride in foreign born Jews and connect them further with Israel. Outside of this at all, realize that many consider Israel to be a terror state, and the IDF to be the ruthless and brutal arm of that state. No, it is not the most common opinion. No, it is not the prevailing opinion in the United States, but especially in light of recent events, it would be unwise to piss off the handful of people that are going to care. The vast majority of adcoms won't have any opinion. Many will see it as a positive, but there are going to be a fair few that it is going to be a negative.

From a writing perspective. "Passion for Israel", "My commander", "Give back to Israel" probably don't belong in a medical school application.

But, again, personal opinion: find another outlet for your 'passion for Israel' other than your application for medical school.

It's funny how you choose to describe it to be analogous to the Hitler youth and not something most would perceive as more benign like the JROTC. Explain to me what the key differences are between what you feel Gadna represents and JROTC? Btw, the article you posted is from 2007, and Haaretz (the newspaper who published the article is known for its staunch left-liberal stance on domestic and foreign issues. So it's a poor source being so biased, and is not necessarily what "many inside Israel" feel.

JROTC mission and objectives for its cadets are defined by the army below:
Developing citizenship and patriotism
Developing self-reliance and responsiveness to all authority.
Improving the ability to communicate well both orally and in writing.
Developing an appreciation of the importance of physical fitness.
Increasing a respect for the role of the U.S. Armed Forces in support of national objectives.
Developing a knowledge of team building skills and basic military skills.
Taking 3–4 years of the course grants cadets the ability to rank higher if they pursue a military career.

Israel has required military service of everyone who graduates high school, so their version of the JROTC is to better prepare their own high schoolers for their upcoming required service. It is not aimed at "instilling nationalistic pride in foreign born Jews" as you state.

I agree that unfortunately there are people like you, physician or not, adcom or not who are hypocritical in their views of what is acceptable for the US to do vs. what Israel can/should do who are in positions of power. Recognizing this hypocrisy, OP should again take a personal risk assessment on if they want to risk their acceptance on this point or not.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Please don't start turning this into an Israel vs. Palestine issue. It's not like after nearly a century of conflict one of you is going to figure it all out.

I think the only thing the OP should take away from this is that he's basically going for all or nothing on this one. I interviewed at Mt. Sinai and it's definitely a more culturally Jewish institution so maybe at that specific school it might be worth a shot (although I will point out that neither of my interviewers were Jewish - one was from Lebanon and the other from France so you never know...). At other schools though - I would leave the Israel thing alone. I would give the same advice to someone who has gone to Iran/Russia/etc to do some kind of military immersion program.

 

[areserine]

Just to increase your sample size, I'm also feeling some red flags here, and they are definitely in the "it's not you, it's XXX (current events, misunderstandings, connotations, prejudices etc.) category". Nothing that you say comes off as particularly damning, but it isn't a huge leap for someone to take this as expelling political beliefs on a hot topic issue right now, even if that is not your intention, and that is not something you want to be doing in an application to medical school. Do you have any other passions that you could talk about? I'm thinking you could write about another passion and still get the point across that you are an interesting, thoughtful, and unique individual, (which is really the goal of this statement) without raising any potential red flags.

 

[slopes23]

Please don't start turning this into an Israel vs. Palestine issue. It's not like after nearly a century of conflict one of you is going to figure it all out.

I think the only thing the OP should take away from this is that he's basically going for all or nothing on this one. I interviewed at Mt. Sinai and it's definitely a more culturally Jewish institution so maybe at that specific school it might be worth a shot (although I will point out that neither of my interviewers were Jewish - one was from Lebanon and the other from France so you never know...). At other schools though - I would leave the Israel thing alone. I would give the same advice to someone who has gone to Iran/Russia/etc to do some kind of military immersion program.

When I was referring to what it is okay for the US to do vs what it's okay for Israel to do I was not referring to the current conflict even a little bit. I was pointing to the fact that I am sure he has no problem with the JROTC here in the US, but Israel makes a similar program and all of the sudden they are overly militaristic, and the equivalent of the Hitler youth. It's a significantly hypocritical stance.

 

[carnivalnorth]

Thank you everybody for all the suggestions and responses! They are much appreciated.

 

[carnivalnorth]

I think it sounds great so far.

For my own curiosity, were there American citizens in the Gadna program as well? There's a rather large Jewish population in my city and I've spoken to people whose kids are training over in Israel right now, but I don't really know the specific programs or anything. Just wondering!

Are their kids 18+ years old? They may actually be serving in the IDF which is a completely different level! If their kids are gone for 18 months or more then that's what they're doing. The program I did was a mix of Israelis and Americans so it's also possible they're doing the same thing or something similar. It was a program through the education corps of the IDF.

When I was referring to what it is okay for the US to do vs what it's okay for Israel to do I was not referring to the current conflict even a little bit. I was pointing to the fact that I am sure he has no problem with the JROTC here in the US, but Israel makes a similar program and all of the sudden they are overly militaristic, and the equivalent of the Hitler youth. It's a significantly hypocritical stance.

If you inserted "Israel" for "US" in your post describing JROTC then I would think you were describing exactly the program I did.

 

[kthxbai]

When I was referring to what it is okay for the US to do vs what it's okay for Israel to do I was not referring to the current conflict even a little bit. I was pointing to the fact that I am sure he has no problem with the JROTC here in the US, but Israel makes a similar program and all of the sudden they are overly militaristic, and the equivalent of the Hitler youth. It's a significantly hypocritical stance.

It's a matter of perception. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because I'm Israeli, but I know the attitude Lucius is referencing. I'm inclined to agree to tread on the side of caution - because it's really hard to effectively communicate about Israel without stirring up images of death and war.

Also, OP's prompt doesn't discuss medicine in any way. It alludes to it, sure, but I didn't get what he learned from Gadna. OP, discuss how the lessons you learned transcend culture rather than get confined by it.

P.S
Maybe adcoms can chime in? @LizzyM @Catalystik @Goro @gyngyn

 

[Ismet]

Are their kids 18+ years old? They may actually be serving in the IDF which is a completely different level! If their kids are gone for 18 months or more then that's what they're doing. The program I did was a mix of Israelis and Americans so it's also possible they're doing the same thing or something similar. It was a program through the education corps of the IDF.

yeah two of the kids were over 18 so I guess they're serving with IDF. another is taking a gap year after high school in some kind of program in northern Israel. Needless to say the dad was rather stressed :/

 

[kthxbai]

It's a matter of perception. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because I'm Israeli, but I know the attitude Lucius is referencing. I'm inclined to agree to tread on the side of caution - because it's really hard to effectively communicate about Israel without stirring up images of death and war.

Also, OP's prompt doesn't discuss medicine in any way. It alludes to it, sure, but I didn't get what he learned from Gadna. OP, discuss how the lessons you learned transcend culture rather than get confined by it.

P.S
Maybe adcoms can chime in? @LizzyM @Catalystik @Goro @gyngyn

 

[theseeker4]

When I was referring to what it is okay for the US to do vs what it's okay for Israel to do I was not referring to the current conflict even a little bit. I was pointing to the fact that I am sure he has no problem with the JROTC here in the US, but Israel makes a similar program and all of the sudden they are overly militaristic, and the equivalent of the Hitler youth. It's a significantly hypocritical stance.

I agree, but you have to assess the probability that a not-insignificant number of adcoms are going to hold this same stance.....Regardless of whether the stance is hypocritical, people with those views are likely to be on adcoms at some schools, and might be reviewing the OP's application.

 

[carnivalnorth]

It's a matter of perception. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because I'm Israeli, but I know the attitude Lucius is referencing. I'm inclined to agree to tread on the side of caution - because it's really hard to effectively communicate about Israel without stirring up images of death and war.

Also, OP's prompt doesn't discuss medicine in any way. It alludes to it, sure, but I didn't get what he learned from Gadna. OP, discuss how the lessons you learned transcend culture rather than confined by it.

I see what you're saying. It's just difficult to expand on the topic when the limit is 250 words.

 

[Goro]

So you're applying to the Touros and/or Einstein?

If not, what does this have to do with "who am I and?" and "Why Medicine?"

Be aware that not all readers to your essays might be sympathetic to Israel's current policies.


And no whining from anyone of the current mess in the Middle East! There's enough good and bad to go around for all sides, so keep it on topic.

Would it be a bad idea to discuss my experiences in and passion for Israel in my secondaries? I'm not describing anything political or controversial. It is a large part of my identity; my grandparents are Israeli and I have always felt a strong connection to Israel. I've participated in many organizations and programs involving Israel and Judaism.

Several secondaries ask for any special experiences you've had, and Sinai specifically asks what you're passionate about (professional or personal). I've definitely had some special experiences in Israel and would definitely say it is my biggest "passion" outside of medicine.

I'm also planning to mention how I plan to volunteer as an EMS first responder in Israel this spring as a gap year activity.

Any insight would be appreciated!