Secondary question - talking about Israel?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
OP I am sure you have some other interests/hobbies/activities you can talk about. The more I read your response and the comments here, the more it seems like an unwise idea. There are political connotations involved here, no matter how subtle it is.
 
It's a matter of perception. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because I'm Israeli, but I know the attitude Lucius is referencing. I'm inclined to agree to tread on the side of caution - because it's really hard to effectively communicate about Israel without stirring up images of death and war.

Also, OP's prompt doesn't discuss medicine in any way. It alludes to it, sure, but I didn't get what he learned from Gadna. OP, discuss how the lessons you learned transcend culture rather than confined by it.

P.S
Maybe adcoms can chime in? @LizzyM @Catalystik @Goro @gyngyn
100% Agree.
 
So you're applying to the Touros and/or Einstein?

If not, what does this have to do with "who am I and?" and "Why Medicine?"

Be aware that not all readers to your essays might be sympathetic to Israel's current policies.


And no whining from anyone of the current mess in the Middle East! There's enough good and bad to go around for all sides, so keep it on topic.

Einstein, yes.

However, this response was for Sinai's secondary asking about a professional or personal passion I've had thus far in my life. I thought it would be ok to discuss something not directly related to medicine.

In your opinion, if a school asks me about a personal passion I should always discuss an aspect of my life that is directly related to medicine?

I'm most likely going to change this after seeing all the negative responses. I guess it'll be better to come off as cookie cutter than to come off as having a political agenda.

All these negative readings of the topic begs the question of what if I had taken a couple of gap years to actually serve in the IDF? Would this really have such a negative impact on an application? I was under the impression that engaging in something that you strongly believe in was a laudable quality.
 
So you're applying to the Touros and/or Einstein?

If not, what does this have to do with "who am I and?" and "Why Medicine?".

This is for Sinai's secondary. If this were for a personal statement, I would absolutely caution against using this topic.

OP, The secondary asks about a passion of yours, which IMO doesn't have to tie directly to medicine. It's a way for the school to get a better picture of you beyond your AMCAS, where pretty much everything is geared towards medicine. Your whole life doesn't revolve around medicine, so it's understandable that your whole application doesn't either.
 
This is for Sinai's secondary. If this were for a personal statement, I would absolutely caution against using this topic.

OP, The secondary asks about a passion of yours, which IMO doesn't have to tie directly to medicine. It's a way for the school to get a better picture of you beyond your AMCAS, where pretty much everything is geared towards medicine. Your whole life doesn't revolve around medicine, so it's understandable that your whole application doesn't either.

I do agree with this, particularly the bold. Don't be afraid to write about stuff that isn't related to medicine, as long as you can exemplify the good qualities you attained from such passions/experiences.
 
This is for Sinai's secondary. If this were for a personal statement, I would absolutely caution against using this topic.

OP, The secondary asks about a passion of yours, which IMO doesn't have to tie directly to medicine. It's a way for the school to get a better picture of you beyond your AMCAS, where pretty much everything is geared towards medicine. Your whole life doesn't revolve around medicine, so it's understandable that your whole application doesn't either.
Also 100% agree.
 
Einstein, yes.

However, this response was for Sinai's secondary asking about a professional or personal passion I've had thus far in my life. I thought it would be ok to discuss something not directly related to medicine.

In your opinion, if a school asks me about a personal passion I should always discuss an aspect of my life that is directly related to medicine?

I'm most likely going to change this after seeing all the negative responses. I guess it'll be better to come off as cookie cutter than to come off as having a political agenda.

All these negative readings of the topic begs the question of what if I had taken a couple of gap years to actually serve in the IDF? Would this really have such a negative impact on an application? I was under the impression that engaging in something that you strongly believe
in was a laudable quality.

Let me ask you, how laudable would you say a person's call to serve is when s/he serves in the Russian Army occupying The Ukraine? How about serving for Hamas? And how about for North Korea?

How would feel if I said that I joined the Hamas because I strongly believe in it's cause?

Just forget about mentioning military involvement, even if you've never touched a Tavor in your life.
 
Unless your essay is will be filled with rainbow and love, (which is unlikely because you, personally, are siding with Israel), do not write about it.
 
This is making me question whether it's even a good idea to mention on secondaries that I plan to volunteer as an EMT in Israel this year as one my gap year activities…
 
In regards to specific wording, I was thinking something like this:

As an American Jew and the grandson of Israelis, I have always felt a strong connection to, and a passion for, the state of Israel. Throughout my life I have been inspired by its people, culture, history, music, and language. I have been a member of many organizations and programs that have allowed me to engage with others who share my passion, including one that provides student exchange opportunities between American and Israeli teenagers. My most meaningful experience in Israel was when I took part in Gadna, an Israeli military simulation program where I was side by side with Israeli teenagers preparing for their military service. My commander, who had been a combat medic, constantly admonished me on the value of human life, an important lesson for any future physician. Above all, I learned how cooperation in the face of adversity is essential to success in a common goal, a frequent mantra in medicine. During the upcoming year, I plan to volunteer in Israel as an EMS ambulance first responder through the Magen David Adom Overseas Volunteer Program. My reasons for doing so are two-fold: I wish to gain hands on exposure to emergency medicine, and I want to give back to Israel in a meaningful way. The opportunity to work with Israelis on the forefront of medical emergencies and have a positive impact on many lives will be one that will undoubtedly be extremely rewarding and serve me in my intended career as a physician.

MS 1 at Sinai here. Personally, I would strongly caution you about submitting something like this. My advice would be to talk about a passion for foreign affairs and or global service and perhaps tie in some of your activities in Israel into this larger theme. The first sentence just sounds really goofy. Plus, they'll sense your passion through your ECs and EC descriptions.
 
This is making me question whether it's even a good idea to mention on secondaries that I plan to volunteer as an EMT in Israel this year as one my gap year activities…

If nothing else, I would hope everyone on here would agree that it's hard to take issue with someone signing up to be a first responder regardless of wherever it is. Be it in Syria, Somalia, or Russia there are innocent people everywhere who get hurt for military and non-military reasons alike and they deserve immediate care. I would hope that being an EMT for Israelis or an EMT for Palestinians evokes an equal sentiment regardless of where you stand politically. If that is not the case, it's a shame.
 
I'd immediately you why you didn't serve your country in the US military?
Then I'd ask why not go to med school in Israel, like to Sackler?


All these negative readings of the topic begs the question of what if I had taken a couple of gap years to actually serve in the IDF? Would this really have such a negative impact on an application? I was under the impression that engaging in something that you strongly believe in was a laudable quality.[/QUOTE]
 
This is making me question whether it's even a good idea to mention on secondaries that I plan to volunteer as an EMT in Israel this year as one my gap year activities…

One of my attendings, an American citizen, actually served in IDF between undergrad and med school. Maybe enough people don't realize that it's not uncommon for US citizens to serve for Israel, and that it doesn't mean that you hate the US or that you secretly want to be Israeli. The US is one of the suppliers of IDF, it's not like you're supporting a terrorist organization or anything similar. Based on the opinions raised in the thread, maybe you should play it on the safe side and either find something else to talk about or edit what you've written to remove as much "political connotation" as you can. Personally I don't find anything wrong with talking about it, but I can see how it can be controversial and perhaps detrimental based on who is reading it.
 
There's got to be a way to do it. Make your first draft. Then go through it and fine tune your tone, and directly or indirectly, clarify YOUR POINT. Maybe subtly ensure that the theme NOT easily compatible with negative interpretations. Attorneys tend to be good at saying things without falling into these pit holes if you know of any who can help. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Look, your experiences are your experiences, and there's no way around mentioning the organizations in which you've been involved that relate to Israel. No problem in doing that. As far as highlighting a "passion" or "identity" with Israel - to be honest, it's just not a good time. Even if you don't overtly talk about its politics, it is going to be political to anyone who reads it and has an opinion on the issue. If you need any proof, look at the actor David Duchovny and all the controversy his non-political beer commercial about his Russian heritage has caused: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-love-russia-at-the-worst-possible-moment/

To be honest, I was so happy to see that ad come out. There is so much negativity towards Russia now a days (of course some is well deserved don't get me wrong, but some things Obama says about Russia not producing anything or no immigrants flocking to Moscow is just political BS.), and this shed some great light on the culture of Russia.
 
Let me ask you, how laudable would you say a person's call to serve is when s/he serves in the Russian Army occupying The Ukraine? How about serving for Hamas? And how about for North Korea?

How would feel if I said that I joined the Hamas because I strongly believe in it's cause?

Just forget about mentioning military involvement, even if you've never touched a Tavor in your life.

It's not "The" Ukraine. Just so you know the correct language way from a slavic perspective.

I'd immediately you why you didn't serve your country in the US military?
Then I'd ask why not go to med school in Israel, like to Sackler?

Personally, I would say that there is a big difference between serving in the US military vs. IDF. Not comparable.
 
Would it be a bad idea to discuss my experiences in and passion for Israel in my secondaries? I'm not describing anything political or controversial. It is a large part of my identity; my grandparents are Israeli and I have always felt a strong connection to Israel. I've participated in many organizations and programs involving Israel and Judaism.

Several secondaries ask for any special experiences you've had, and Sinai specifically asks what you're passionate about (professional or personal). I've definitely had some special experiences in Israel and would definitely say it is my biggest "passion" outside of medicine.

I'm also planning to mention how I plan to volunteer as an EMS first responder in Israel this spring as a gap year activity.

Any insight would be appreciated!

From reading your post and the messages you wrote on here, I would advise not to include this. Others have already said this, but I will reiterate that there is just too much military information considering the IDF's fighting right now. As someone who wrote about Israel and Russia in my app, I always tried to tie it with my culture, academic experiences, or what I learned from interacting with people. I didn't even include the name of the program I went with to Israel. I am not ashamed of my experiences, but I have met people who have opinions that are swayed by the media and are not open to listening to my experiences there.
 
I KNEW that! Just forgot.

🙂

No worries! I see and hear it all the time, which is why I tend to get antsy seeing "the". It's actually quite controversial in Russian though, but I will refrain from expanding since it's very off topic here! 🙂
 
To be honest, I was so happy to see that ad come out. There is so much negativity towards Russia now a days (of course some is well deserved don't get me wrong, but some things Obama says about Russia not producing anything or no immigrants flocking to Moscow is just political BS.), and this shed some great light on the culture of Russia.

Hey, I'm Russian and I loved the ad! It was funny, heartwarming, and a pretty honest effort to capture some of the more familiar aspects of our culture. Which is even more disappointing that it came out during this difficult time, since it will be interpreted politically instead of for what it was meant to be - delicious cold beer.
 
It's not "The" Ukraine. Just so you know the correct language way from a slavic perspective.



Personally, I would say that there is a big difference between serving in the US military vs. IDF. Not comparable.

I'm half Ukrainian, bro. In English "the" is perfectly appropriate. Think of it as "na Urkainii" as opposed to "v Rasii."
 
Hey, I'm Russian and I loved the ad! It was funny, heartwarming, and a pretty honest effort to capture some of the more familiar aspects of our culture. Which is even more disappointing that it came out during this difficult time, since it will be interpreted politically instead of for what it was meant to be - delicious cold beer.

Отлично! 🙂. Only at the end did I realize that the ad was for beer lol! Might have to try it if I go back to Russia next year!
 
I'm half Ukrainian, bro. In English "the" is perfectly appropriate. Think of it as "na Urkainii" as opposed to "v Rasii."

Definitely not a bro 😛. Although it might be appropriate grammatically in English, saying the Ukraine has political connotations. Russians use(d) "na Ukrainii" to mean "in the Ukraine" considering it's name derives from being the "borderland" (almost like saying "in the South" when referring to southern states of the US). Ukrainians after the fall of the USSR have tried to impose "v Ukrainii" because it means "in Ukraine" which gives the impression of sovereignty and distance from Russian politically. Not using the "the" in English is simply a way to acknowledge that change, but of course I will admit that I use "na Ukrainii" because it is what I am used to and sounds better to me in Russian.
 
Definitely not a bro 😛. Although it might be appropriate grammatically in English, saying the Ukraine has political connotations. Russians use(d) "na Ukrainii" to mean "in the Ukraine" considering it's name derives from being the "borderland" (almost like saying "in the South" when referring to southern states of the US). Ukrainians after the fall of the USSR have tried to impose "v Ukrainii" because it means "in Ukraine" which gives the impression of sovereignty and distance from Russian politically. Not using the "the" in English is simply a way to acknowledge that change, but of course I will admit that I use "na Ukrainii" because it is what I am used to and sounds better to me in Russian.

You spent a while thinking it over 🙂

I'm half Russian, half Ukrainian, and thanks to my family's split down the middle on this issue - I couldn't care less 😀
 
You spent a while thinking it over 🙂

I'm half Russian, half Ukrainian, and thanks to my family's split down the middle on this issue - I couldn't care less 😀

Yeah, I try to see from both sides since I have friends who are Ukrainian while I identify as Russian. You're also Israeli? Damn, three-in-one combo! 🙂
 
When I was referring to what it is okay for the US to do vs what it's okay for Israel to do I was not referring to the current conflict even a little bit. I was pointing to the fact that I am sure he has no problem with the JROTC here in the US, but Israel makes a similar program and all of the sudden they are overly militaristic, and the equivalent of the Hitler youth. It's a significantly hypocritical stance.

I understand what you're saying and I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that given the current situation when someone mentions serving the U.S military we think "SUPPORT THE TROOPS!" but if you mention a foreign military like Israel's we automatically think "Were you in Gaza?"

Everyone also has to remember that yes there may be many attendings/residents who served in the IDF but the public opinion shift towards Israel is a very, very recent thing. I would say a decade ago serving Israel was equivalent to serving US interests. Most people don't seem to think so anymore (at least in more liberal states like Ca/NY).

As for the whole EMT thing in Israel. Do it! As someone else said medical personnel who serve civilians during conflicts are always praised by both sides.
 
Top